Political Discussion: Why Somalia is failed state

[Reer-Bari]

there was a small movement in mudug when hsm and galnus wanted to make all of mudug join galnus in 2015. PL is free why would anyone get arrested for speaking their mind stop the lies.

lol just a couple of months a kid got arrested for making a cartoon picture that showed a big belly cabdiwelli cali gaas. name one person that has ever done that.

 

[Farm]

lol just a couple of months a kid got arrested for making a cartoon picture that showed a big belly cabdiwelli cali gaas. name one person that has ever done that.

What you are saying makes no sense. I’ll tell president Deni to his face I want PL to leave and I’ll record it.

 

[whitehartlane]

I heard of all of them but non of these were nation states or modern states. This states were based on Islam and not somalinimo. They hadn't a modern state structure with power sharing institution as far as we know, althoug this arguable. If they had nothing is really known about these states their is barely documented history of them. There is only this book about ahmed gurays period in adal. Ahmed gurays state which was not a modern state nor a somali state collapsed after his death. Because it was not nation, every subtribe went on his own. So adal and ajuuran and what ever you call them are in no way representative for a somali state we barely know something about. They are just a reference in our history books.

*One has to go through 100 years of war before one can form a country.

*Ajuuraan and whatever the others called were not nation states (if you don't know the history of ajuuraan then Please ask to be thought don't disrespect that which you have no knowledge of.)

*European countries are success African countries are failures.(European countries are better off due to stealing from the countries you are shaming) ..besides there are plenty countries that have not been around for more than 100 years that are more advanced than your so called succesful countries..

*Having different types of people sharing a nation is unviable..( then why are the western countries taking 100.000s of immigrants every year from other countries?


You are too much influenced by western standards of wht a nation should be and what it shouldn't be..

 

[GBTarmy]

lol just a couple of months a kid got arrested for making a cartoon picture that showed a big belly cabdiwelli cali gaas. name one person that has ever done that.

where in the constitution does it say you can't have opinion to leave somalia? show me now.

ok so one kid that got arrested is your argument? also why do you think you know more about pl than the rest of us? get off your high horse and the gibberish you're spewing.

 

[XamarWeeaboo]

For those of you interested i want to start a discussion about the question: Why did Somalia (1960-1991) fail as State ? I start with answering this question:

1) The most obvious reason for me is there was never a common somali identity which fully replaced the clan identity. Specially the big "noble" tribes would have lost to much privileges. Yes during the Kacaan there was a basic sense of Somalinimo which spread among the people but MSB himself and later the rebels used lineages for their goals. So Somalinimo was never a fully adapted principle in the society.

2) There a many definitions in many different Sciences of what a State is but lets just say a state is an Organisation with a folk (for example somali people) and a defined territory. In a State only a group of people have the power to use force on other people. We call this group government. The power that this government have, splits into three sections. First the power to make laws(Parliament and constitution), second to make sure this laws are followed (Police force) and third to take everyone unaccountable (Court) who breaks this laws. By this simplistic definition of a state we shall all realize there was NEVER a somali state before 1960.

The somali people who never ruled a State couldn't deal with a new System where only a defined group (government) had power. The kill of the second Somali president AUN by his bodyguard, the disregard of the Constitution during the Kacaan Era and their crimes against Humanity, the formation of tribal rebel groups and corruption to an unbelievable extent by all three goverments during 1960-1991. These examples showed that the somali people and their government(s) weren't ready to delegate the Power to the government and the government weren't ready to use this power in a proper manner.

3) The third reason for me is Somalia is based on colonial borders and not somalinimo. Pre Colonial times there was not a somali empire which was divided by the colonial powers. Different Somali Tribes were forced by these cadaans to share a country. In other words the tribes of the somali republic never agreed upon to share a nation with each other, rather it was forced on them after the new african nations agreed to not change any colonial borderline. People saying somalia is the only african nation state with 100 % somalis is bulshi*t. Every Somali is only loyal to his subtribe for example majeerten or Abgaal and ect. So Somalia was an artificial State consisting of many different ethnics (subtribes). One could say somalia is multi-ethnic state with more than 100 ethnic groups who only share language and religion.

I will agree with you, however there is one thing I believe you should add.

The USC and SNM failed to set up a provisional government. This turned into chaos-culminating in the hit movie Black Hawk Down, where Bantus replaced Somalis in Xamar. This could of worked, even if they just had a few clans or a select few in power this would prevent the fractions from popping up everywhere in Somalia.

Feel free to add or remove

 

[.279]

1. Recognizes somalis have a tribal issue

2. Their solution is clan states where they'll kill each other, form rebel groups and eventually advocate for even smaller clan states within their clan state


68 iq is no joke dawg

 

[GBTarmy]

why does this @Reer-Bari always attack other puntites and their views? whats the problem

 

[Fiidmeer]

1. Recognizes somalis have a tribal issue

2. Their solution is clan states where they'll kill each other, form rebel groups and eventually advocate for even smaller clan states within their clan state


68 iq is no joke dawg

Djibouti is a clan state.

 

[XamarWeeaboo]

1. Recognizes somalis have a tribal issue

2. Their solution is clan states where they'll kill each other, form rebel groups and eventually advocate for even smaller clan states within their clan state


68 iq is no joke dawg

That's a true solution, however unless ALL Somalis face a common threat which forces alliances and working unity, then it's something that reer 68 won't understand anytime soon. Especially when the future of their bank account is more important than the Country's future

 

[.279]

Djibouti is a clan state.

Not only is it not a clan state but it's a multi ethnic state lol. Djiboutis politics is also predicated on qabyaalad/ethnicity , we're as handicap as you are

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

Diaspora not going backhome to start small bussiness' is whats Keeping Somalia a Failed State. Many small companies would make a big difference.

 

[Reer-Bari]

why does this @Reer-Bari always attack other puntites and their views? whats the problem

all i brought was facts walahi. no one in puntland has ever spoken about ever leaving in any public stage. proof me they did. seccessionist puntites only exist in the diaspora. and its not attackking. where did i attack anyone u weirdo

 

[XamarWeeaboo]

Diaspora not going backhome to start small bussiness' is whats Keeping Somalia a Failed State. Many small companies would make a big difference.

My family friends have been panning this for a while, but due to AS and their "bruda" they are put off. I however would like ti invest, but only into heavy and production centered industries. At this rate, we will be building canoes whilst the rest of Africa is sending rover to Mars, where the Europeans will be living

 

[Reer-Bari]

What you are saying makes no sense. I’ll tell president Deni to his face I want PL to leave and I’ll record it.

ok its my opinion. walahi im not attacking you im just saying what i have eperienced in all my time in puntland over 4 years experience on and off. i have never met a local seccessionist. im only talking about promoting seccessionist openly would get you arrested. your opinion wont get you arrested. you can support seccessionism but not promote it.

 

[Farm]

@Reer-Bari read this article of our constitution, if it wasn’t a popular idea it wouldn’t be in it.

 

[Fiidmeer]

Not only is it not a clan state but it's a multi ethnic state lol. Djiboutis politics is also predicated on qabyaalad/ethnicity , we're as handicap as you are

I meant Ciise lead Djibouti just as Isaaq leads Somaliland. You guys are even worse because Geelle and the previous president were relatives.

 

[.279]

I meant Ciise lead Djibouti just as Isaaq leads Somaliland. You guys are even worse because Geelle and the previous president were relatives.

Yes but im against any clan being above or "leading" any other clan. It's not something civilized countries do. My point is breaking up clans into mocro states will not solve the issue. Puntland, somaliland, djibouti and the south all have qabyaalad integrated into their politics and will amount to nothing as long as the status quo remains

 

[Fiidmeer]

Yes but im against any clan being above or "leading" any other clan. It's not something civilized countries do. My point is breaking up clans into mocro states will not solve the issue. Puntland, somaliland, djibouti and the south all have qabyaalad integrated into their politics and will amount to nothing as long as the status quo remains

Do you have a solution?

 

[.279]

Do you have a solution?

idk I've kind of accepted that it's a terminal illness at this point but balkinization is a temporary deodorizer until the problem rears its ugly head again. That I'm sure of.

 

[Mercury]

Because of Somalis themselves. Generally filled with cuqdad against anything but their own, just look at how minority tribes are treated