Philosophy is kufr and leads to shirk?

[Keep it a boqol]

It seems like there is on ongoing debate of whether the use of philosophy such as the cosmological contingency argument (I believed developed by imam ghazali) and other philosophical arguments to invite people to islam is pagan, unIslamic and haram. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Bundasliga]

 

[Keep it a boqol]

View attachment 222965

Some of these other daiis disagree especially with Muhammed Hijabs methods

 

[Bundasliga]

 

[Bundasliga]

Some of these other daiis disagree especially with Muhammed Hijabs methods

 

[Qeelbax]

 

[Keep it a boqol]

I don’t agree with it being kufr but you got ppl like Abdul Rahman Hassan claiming it is

 

[Aurelian]

Muslims in the first centuries used philosophy to debate non muslims on islam since they didn't believe in Quran, so they had to find a way to debate and use logic to give evidences.

 

[alexander]

i like this guys who call everything kufr. Dudes will end up falling off a building because they will deem it haram for being built by a kafir.

 

[Deleted L]

People who are against using philosophy and logic for the purpose of Dawah are nutjobs who don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. Try convincing an Atheist that God exists using the Quran and Sunnah alone! if you won’t then you have answered your own question. It’s circular reasoning and the Atheist doesn’t care what the Quran and Sunnah says! in order to prove God’s existence to an Atheist, you’re going to have to use sophisticated, logical philosophical arguments.

 

[Rationale]

The Somali sheikh is very knowledgable on quran, hadeths, sunnah etc. But brother lives in a bubble. He is really hard to relate to and he makes the diin much harder than it needs to be.

 

[Rationale]

It seems like there is on ongoing debate of whether the use of philosophy such as the cosmological contingency argument (I believed developed by imam ghazali) and other philosophical arguments to invite people to islam is pagan, unIslamic and haram. What are your thoughts on this?

We were thaught in our philosophy class that it was Saint Thomas Aquintas that came up with the cosmological argument. Even though he took whole passages from Imam Al-Ghazali who had exact same argument.

 

[Radical]

I've been reading philosophy for seven years now. Never once has it led me astray. In fact it further cements my faith as it shows how the deen can withstand all manners of scrutiny.

The Kufr rattling e-sheikhs are part of those who use religion to justify their manipulation. Getting rid of critical thinking is a crucial step for social control.

 

[Omar del Sur]

There's a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to this topic.

Do you really want to go to the masjid on jummah, you listen to the khutbah- and the imam is preaching about Aristotle? You want him to recite a verse from the Quran then use the philosophy of Aristotle to interpret the verse from the Quran?

The scholars waged a battle to protect you from this kind of nonsense. If anything, you should be thanking them. "Thank you, Imam Al-Ghazali, thank you Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah".

No, it's not that the scholars were idiots and barbarians and that's why they didn't want Islam mixed with Greek philosophy. If you want to mix Quran and Sunnah and Aristotle in a blender to create some new frankenreligion- it doesn't make you some intellectual genius, if anything it makes you some kind of misguided person.

The people who were into kalaam stuff, the "Muslim philosophers" people- that's what was going on with them. These were Aristotle superfans mixing Islam with Greek philosophy.

Let me use a modern example- look at the "Muslim feminists," "Muslim liberals," "Islamic socialists" of modern times. The people who were into kalaam, the "Muslim philsophers"- those were like the great, great, great grandparents of those people.

Do you want to discuss the rulings of the sharia and people start bringing up whatever the heck it was that Karl Marx or some liberal professor or some feminist academic said on something? You want to sit down for the jummah khutbah and hear that kind of thing?

Even Muhammad Hijab- I'm not making this up- if you really look into it, his kalaam stuff that he's into really does come from Aristotle. No, you don't need to mix Islam with Aristotle or Karl Marx or whatever philosopher. Stick with Quran and Sunnah on the understanding of the salaaf. Don't get into these weird deviations. The scholars did us all a favor by refuting the "Muslim philosopher" people.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I just want to illustrate what I was talking about. When I say these people were Aristotle superfans trying to mix Islam with Aristotle, I am not making this up:

"1. Interpretation of Islamic teachings so as to be in harmony with Aristotelian philosophy

Perhaps looking at the brief biography of Ibn Rushd referred to above will be sufficient to highlight this inclination in the thought of Ibn Rushd. He was infatuated with the thought of Aristotle to the extent that Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said of him: He is one of the most adherent of people to the views of Aristotle. End quote from Bayaan Talbees al-Jahamiyyah (1/120). Ibn Rushd tried hard to explain Aristotelian thought and present it to the people in a new Arabic style. Whilst doing that, when he saw a contradiction between Aristotelian thought and the fundamentals of Islam, he would try to find a far-fetched interpretation that could lead to undermining and destroying Islam. It was as if Aristotelian philosophy was the counterpart of the teachings of Islam which came from the Lord of the Worlds and are embodied in the texts of the Qur’an and Sunnah. It was on this basis that he wrote his famous book Fasl al-Maqaal fi Taqreer ma bayna ash-Sharee‘ah wa’l-Hikmah min al-Ittisaal (The Decisive Treatise, Determining the Nature of the Connection between Religion and Philosophy). "

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/130484/some-criticisms-of-the-belief-of-ibn-rushd-averroes

Do you really want Islam to be interpreted on the basis of Aristotle?

I don't always agree with islamqa btw but they are telling the truth. if you think I'm lying and they're lying- read the book he wrote in response to Incoherence of the Philosophers by Al-Ghazali, Tahāfut al-Tahāfut. I've read both- the one from Al-Ghazali and the one from Ibn Rushd. The one from Ibn Rushd- well I tried to read it. It was terrible. I'm not lying- have you ever seen a "Muslim feminist" type who really follows Islam and doesn't put feminist ideology above Islam at times? Ibn Rushd would do the same kind of thing but with Aristotle. If you read his book I mentioned, you'll see. The book is full of that.

the fatwa also makes another really good point:

"he is celebrated by many of those who are part of the liberal secular trends today, to the point that they think of the philosopher Ibn Rushd as a pioneer of enlightenment, even though they know that much of the knowledge in his books is regarded as extinct and wrong by modern standards of knowledge. But their aim is to glorify all liberal thoughts and ideas"

This doesn't just apply to Ibn Rushd. You have a bunch of liberal types who push this "closing of the Muslim mind" thesis.

it goes like this "Al-Ghazali when he refuted the philosophers in Incoherence of the Philosophers- little did he know he was leading to the downfall of Muslim civilization! you see, by rejecting this wonderful Western philosophy stuff, he made Muslims dumbed down and unintellectual (because blending Islam with Aristotle is "intellectualism")." and so all the scholars who refuted the "Muslim philosophers" were supposedly barbarians. and so supposedly what Muslims need to do is- what? become open to Western philosophy- which is the basis of liberalism, feminism, etc. It's a liberal propaganda narrative aimed at making Muslims westernized. if you read Closing of the Muslim Mind, they are pushing that narrative to try to make Muslims accept liberalism and democracy. you follow their narrative, you open the door to liberalism, secularism, democracy, feminism, etc. go back and study the debate between Al-Ghazali and Ibn Rushd if you don't believe me. read what they said in those books. Ibn Rushd and those people were trying to mix Islam with Greek philosophy. this idea of elevating "Reason" and philosophy above revelation- this was the basis of the "Enlightenment" movement that secularized the West. they are trying to import the same thing into the Muslim world.

there's a book by Ayaan Hirsi Ali titled "Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now".

this is part of the agenda of the "reformation" that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is referring to. it isn't just her. a lot of Western elites/intellectuals have made reference to this idea that Islam needs a "reformation". they want to secularize Muslims and make Muslims water down their religion like what happened with Westerners. this is about Westernizing Muslims. it's the same agenda.

I forget who it was- I think it was Ibn Sina- one of these "Muslim philosophers" people actually claimed that philosophers are above prophets. the Muslim scholars were absolutely right to refute these people.

 

[Taij4an]

The Quran talks about philosophy idk why modern day shuyookh may Allah have mercy on them are so against philosophy
all science math everything is based on philosophy, even Allah uses arguments in the Quran like
Allah has never had ˹any˺ offspring, nor is there any god besides Him. Otherwise, each god would have taken away what he created, and they would have tried to dominate one another. Glorified is Allah above what they claim! 23:91
the only problem is when u try to understand ilmulghayb through philosphy, other than that its fine

 

[Taij4an]

I've been reading philosophy for seven years now. Never once has it led me astray. In fact it further cements my faith as it shows how the deen can withstand all manners of scrutiny.

The Kufr rattling e-sheikhs are part of those who use religion to justify their manipulation. Getting rid of critical thinking is a crucial step for social control.

have you watched firas zahabi

 

[Taij4an]

People who are against using philosophy and logic for the purpose of Dawah are nutjobs who don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. Try convincing an Atheist that God exists using the Quran and Sunnah alone! if you won’t then you have answered your own question. It’s circular reasoning and the Atheist doesn’t care what the Quran and Sunnah says! in order to prove God’s existence to an Atheist, you’re going to have to use sophisticated, logical philosophical arguments.

the Quran provides philosophical arguments which appeal to ones fitra
why are we separating Quranic dawah and dawah using the western philosophy, the Quran gives enough logical and sophisticated arguments if one truly understands them to give dawah to a non-muslim

 

[NordicSomali]

Philosophy as a discipline is to be always skeptical, while islam has already decided what the objective truth is and let your mind wonder about freely, so the two can’t mix, because lots of things are not allowed to be questioned in Islam.

You can ponder about certain things in islam, but again that’s within a very strict and confined space of possible themes you can touch, while some things are out of reach. So it’s basically very limited philosophy.

 

[Taij4an]

Philosophy as a discipline is to be always skeptical, while islam has already decided what the objective truth is and let your mind wonder about freely, so the two can’t mix, because lots of things are not allowed to be questioned in Islam.

You can ponder about certain things in islam, but again that’s within a very strict and confined space of possible themes you can touch, while some things are out of reach. So it’s basically very limited philosophy.

philosophy is not to be skeptical about everything