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But if we purify the somali language like the turkish we'd drop letters like
ع خ ح

These pharyngeal consonants aren't a product of borrowing from Arabic they are found in almost all of Semitic, Berber, Cushitic, Northwest Caucasian, and Northeast Caucasian language families although it is absent in some east cushitic languages like Oromo but that doesn't mean we got from Arabic and needs to be dropped, it comes from the Proto-afro Asiatic .
 

alien

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Bruh the latin favouritism for the somali language isn't only about vowels but also about diphthongs. But if we purify the somali language like the turkish we'd drop letters like
ع خ ح
we would only drop KH. All KH words are arabic and are all loanwords

X and C comes from Proto afro asiatic. Iraqw which is a southern Cushitic language has these sounds. same with Rendille which is a proto Somaloid language (Eastern Omo-tana).
 
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alien

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I agree with the Latin script being used for Somali. less cost and more literacy. also teaches Somalis how to read languages that also uses the Latin script
 

Shimbiris

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we would only drop KH. All KH words are arabic and are all loanwords

X and C comes from Proto afro asiatic. Iraqw which is a southern Cushitic language has these sounds. same with Rendille which is a proto Somaloid language (Eastern Omo-tana).

Kh is not a loan sound from Arabic. Dunno where you got that. And it was most assuredly present in Proto-Cushitic, as far as I know. Most likely also present in Proto-LE Cushitic.
 

alien

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Kh is not a loan sound from Arabic. Dunno where you got that. And it was most assuredly present in Proto-Cushitic, as far as I know. Most likely also present in Proto-LE Cushitic.
No. every KH word in the Somali language is a loanword. not a single one of them is native
 

Shimbiris

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No. every KH word in the Somali language is a loanword. not a single one of them is native

I have not seen a single Somali linguist make this claim and don't have the time to confirm what you're claiming with the words but if what you claim is true it would be weird considering Somali has clearly taken Arabic words and added "kh" when it was not present in the original Arabic word like "Waqt" into "Wakht". And since when are words like "Ikhyaar" (gentleman) and "Kharaar" (bitter) loanwords? Are they?
 

alien

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I have not seen a single Somali linguist make this claim and don't have the time to confirm what you're claiming with the words but if what you claim is true it would be weird considering Somali has clearly taken Arabic words and added "kh" when it was not present in the original Arabic word like "Waqt" into "Wakht".
every somali linguist makes these claims. its a fact that all of them are loanwords
 

Shimbiris

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every somali linguist makes these claims. its a fact that all of them are loanwords

I've read their books and don't recall this. Show me. But I can draw up more words. Is "Dhakhso" an Arabic loanword? Are the two I named before? Not adding up, saxiib. And I've heard "kh" in other Cushitic languages. It also doesn't make any sense with how Somali takes loanwords from other languages and warps in a "kh" sound like "Dakhtar" for "Doctor". Why would this happen with a non-native consonant?

Saxiib, even Rendille clearly has the "kh" sound. Just listen:



You can hear it a bunch of times in the first 15 seconds alone.
 
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reer

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I have not seen a single Somali linguist make this claim and don't have the time to confirm what you're claiming with the words but if what you claim is true it would be weird considering Somali has clearly taken Arabic words and added "kh" when it was not present in the original Arabic word like "Waqt" into "Wakht". And since when are words like "Ikhyaar" (gentleman) and "Kharaar" (bitter) loanwords? Are they?
kh is a foreign letter. alot of the time its interchangeable with q.
kharaar = qaraar. both letters are used.
akhyaar comes from arabic. kh is an incorporated letter.
 

Shimbiris

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kh is a foreign letter. alot of the time its interchangeable with q.
kharaar = qaraar. both letters are used.
akhyaar comes from arabic. most kh words are loanwords.

Even if a lot of the words are loans it is definitely not a foreign sound. Despite Piracy's claim I have never seen a Somali linguist or even a foreign one like Ehret claim this though I welcome being surprised and as you can hear in the video I shared; it is clearly present in Rendille. Languages do not tend to inherit consonants and vowels from each other. It is not really a common occurrence.
 

alien

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I've read their books and don't recall this. Show me. But I can draw up more words. Is "Dhakhso" an Arabic loanword? Are the two I named before? Not adding up, saxiib. And I've heard "kh" in other Cushitic languages. It also doesn't make any sense with how Somali takes loanwords from other languages and warps in a "kh" sound like "Dakhtar" for "Doctor". Why would this happen with a non-native consonant?

Saxiib, even Rendille clearly has the "kh" sound. Just listen:



You can hear it a bunch of times in the first 15 seconds alone.
After adding these loanwords, these sounds become no longer foreign to the somali language. the odd somali word that has the sound KH, does not matter to the 100s other words that are arabic loanwords. we can list thousands of words only found in the somali language that begins with X or C, but we can at the most list a few words that begin with KH that are not loanwords.
 

Shimbiris

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After adding these loanwords, these sounds become no longer foreign to the somali language. the odd somali word that has the sound KH, does not matter to the 100s other words that are arabic loanwords. we can list thousands of words only found in the somali language that begins with X or C, but we can at the most list a few words that begin with KH that are not loanwords.

That doesn't prove anything, I'm afraid. Could easily mean the consonant slowly got phased out just like how xa and ca were slowly lost by most Oromo dialects and Af-Maay despite definitely being present in Proto-Lowland East-Cushitic. I had a good linguist friend who explained all this to me years ago. A lot of these sounds slowly get lost by Afro-Asiatic languages over-time. That is why Oromo, Maay, Amharic and even Akkadian sound the way they do and don't have sounds like xa, ca and kha. But of course some AA languages like Arabic, Somali and Afar remain more phonologically conservative and keep these sounds.

But I'm still waiting on your claims about linguists backing you. Big claim. Gonna have to ask you to back it up. And you can also clearly hear that Rendille has the sound "kh" in the video in the first 15 seconds alone.
 

reer

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That doesn't prove anything, I'm afraid. Could easily mean the consonant slowly got phased out just like how xa and ca were slowly lost by most Oromo dialects and Af-Maay despite definitely being present in Proto-Lowland East-Cushitic. I'm still waiting though on your claims about linguists backing you. Big claim. Gonna have to ask you to back it up. And you can also clearly hear that Rendille has the sound "kh" in the video in the first 15 seconds alone.
so what oromo has z and maay maay that doesnt change the nothing the focking point is kh is incorporated because most of its words are ajnabi neefyahow.
 

alien

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That doesn't prove anything, I'm afraid. Could easily mean the consonant slowly got phased out just like how xa and ca were slowly lost by most Oromo dialects and Af-Maay despite definitely being present in Proto-Lowland East-Cushitic. I'm still waiting though on your claims about linguists backing you. Big claim. Gonna have to ask you to back it up. And you can also clearly hear that Rendille has the sound "kh" in the video in the first 15 seconds alone.
Af Maay is theorised to have dropped X and C due to isolation.

List some KH words so me and @reer can tell you they are arabic.
 

alien

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I had a good linguist friend who explained all this to me years ago. A lot of these sounds slowly get lost by Afro-Asiatic languages over-time. That is why Oromo, Maay, Amharic and even Akkadian sound the way they do and don't have sounds like xa, ca and kha. But of course some AA languages like Arabic, Somali and Afar remain more phonologically conservative and keep these sounds.
That doesn't include KH. KH is not a remnant of proto afro-asiatic in the somali language. X and C are. majority which is like > 95% of KH words are arabic loanwords. you bringing up "Dakhtar" proves nothing
 

Shimbiris

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Af Maay are theorised to have dropped X and C due to isolation.

List some KH words so me and @reer can tell you they are arabic.

It is a natural occurrence among Afro-Asiatic languages to eventually drop sounds like xa, ca, kha and gha which were all definitely present in Proto-Afro-Asiatic. Go email a linguist like Ehret and they will confirm this for you. That is what happened with Amharic, Oromo, Maay and even Akkadian long before them and to some extent various dialects of Hebrew as well. Somali is phonologically more conservative than Maay hence why it still has these consonants whereas Maay is actually more conservative in terms of sentence structure if memory serves me well. It was more conservative in something, can't fully remember right now.

And I am not debating that a lot of "kh" words are loans. What I am debating is that "kh" is not native to Somali. You're being quite disingenuous walaal and constantly dodging backing up your claim that linguists claim what you said (they don't as far as I know) and even dodging that you can clearly hear the sound in Rendille and just harping on about the one point that you clearly have and I'm not interested in about the loanwords.

so what oromo has z and maay maay that doesnt change the nothing the focking point is kh is incorporated because most of its words are ajnabi neefyahow.

Not replying to you anymore, saxiib, Either learn to be civil or speak to someone else.
 

alien

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It is a natural occurrence among Afro-Asiatic languages to eventually drop sounds like xa, ca, kha and gha which were all definitely present in Proto-Afro-Asiatic. Go email a linguist like Ehret and they will confirm this for you. That is what happened with Amharic, Oromo, Maay and even Akkadian long before them and to some extent various dialects of Hebrew as well. Somali is phonologically more conservative than Maay hence why it still has these consonants whereas Maay is actually more conservative in terms of sentence structure if memory serves me well. It was more conservative in something, can't fully remember right now.

And I am not debating that a lot of "kh" words are loans. What I am debating is that "kh" is not native to Somali. You're being quite disingenuous wall and constantly dodging backing up your claim that linguists claim what you said (they don't as far as I know) and even dodging that you can clearly hear the song in Rendille and just harping on the one point that you clearly have and I'm not interested in about the loanwords.



Not replying to you anymore, saxiib, Either learn to be civil or speak to someone else.
youre arguing bs. the majority are loanwords which means the sound isn't native to somali
 

Shimbiris

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youre arguing bs. the majority are loanwords which means the sound isn't native to somali

No, it doesn't. You need to actually study the language in a comparative linguistic setting. Look at languages it is related to like Rendille, Oromo, Afar, Saho and so forth, make reconstructions and then make the claims you are. "Most of the words are loans so it's definitely not native" is just some layman claim. But it's good to know you were lying about linguists backing you up and I guess you can't hear the "kh" in that video? I'm honestly open to your view. It's just really weird how unwilling you are to share actual academic sources or confirm whether you can hear the sound is clearly in Rendille or not. What's the problem here?
 

reer

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No, it doesn't. You need to actually study the language in a comparative linguistic setting. Look at languages it is related to like Rendille, Oromo, Afar, Saho and so forth, make reconstructions and then make the claims you are. "Most of the words are loans so it's definitely not native" is just some layman claim. But it's good to know you were lying about linguists backing you up and I guess you can't hear the "kh" in that video? I'm honestly open to your view. It's just really weird how unwilling you are to share actual academic sources or confirm whether you can hear the sound is clearly in Rendille or not. What's the problem here?
dictionary speaks for itself. kh is not even used as much as most other consonants.
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