Pan-arabism pan-islamism pan-communism

[Ahmedahmed5000]

These 3 ideologies are cancer and should not be embraced but annihilated from the lands of Somalis. When abdullahi isse was prime minster during the trusteeship some Arab nationalists were against the recognition of somali as the national language. Some were against somali adopting the Latin alphabet which was the right choice since somali is rich in vowels while the Arabic script only has 3 vowels. The second one is the pan islamists who think somalis should give up their sovereignty and unite with other Muslim countries. This is just stupid since 99% of Muslims countries will not give up their sovereignty. Even Saudis don't want it. And lastly the pan-african communists, the Soviets thought that once the derg comes to power, they could unite the horn of Africa into a country. And by having a Communist regime in Yemen they could a have a chocking point against the west. But they were wrong. Even though afweyne was a communist he would have been killed if he tried to unify somalo with Ethiopia. Somlis should embrace somali nationalism and see their land as sacred to protect. We're lucky to have land and a country, so let's protect it.

 

[Periplus]

the Arabic script only has 3 vowels

Come on, surely you went to dugsi to know that isn't true.

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

Come on, surely you went to dugsi to know that isn't true.

View attachment 194796

But you can't wrote it down without diacritics. That's why the quran and hadith have it to stop confusion. It's not well suited for a language like somali

 

[Shimbiris]

But you can't wrote it down without diacritics. That's why the quran and hadith have it to stop confusion. It's not well suited for a language like somali

I strongly disagree. You can easily repurpose the script to fit a language like Somali. Just break it's normal rules and insert vowels in words the same you do with the Latin script and create some unique letters here and there. I've seen people make pretty easy to learn and good scripts for Somali using Arabic. It's honestly superior to Latin and actually has letters for sounds like ca, xa and kha.

 

[Periplus]

I strongly disagree. You can easily repurpose the script to fit a language like Somali. Just break it's normal rules and insert vowels in words the same you do with the Latin script and create some unique letters here and there. I've seen people make pretty easy to learn and good scripts for Somali using Arabic. It's honestly superior to Latin and actually has letters for sounds like ca, xa and kha.

Arabic was literally the script for Somalis up until independence.

The modern Somali language was adapted to fit the Arabic script over time, I would wager.

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

I strongly disagree. You can easily repurpose the script to fit a language like Somali. Just break it's normal rules and insert vowels in words the same you do with the Latin script and create some unique letters here and there. I've seen people make pretty easy to learn and good scripts for Somali using Arabic. It's honestly superior to Latin and actually has letters for sounds like ca, xa and kha.

Brain-dead take somali like Turkey has vowel harmony but Turkey use letters like ü ö ä to represent the back vowels they ditched the whole arabic script. Pakistan and iran where also looking to throw it away. Somali just didn't add the diacritics needed.

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

Arabic was literally the script for Somalis up until independence.

The modern Somali language was adapted to fit the Arabic script over time, I would wager.

Arabic was literally the script for Somalis up until independence.

The modern Somali language was adapted to fit the Arabic script over time, I would wager.

But the question is, how much of the population was literate most estimates were less than 3% since most somalis were nomads. And each dialect had its own scripts due to different pronunciation and most somalis didn't like outside of their tribes because of their different cultures and customs.

 

[Periplus]

But the question is, how much of the population was literate most estimates were less than 3% since most somalis were nomads. And each dialect had its own scripts due to different pronunciation and most somalis didn't like outside of their tribes because of their different cultures and customs.

Unless you were completely closed off, you had the ability to read the quran due to dugsi.

That's why people used the Arabic script to write Somali because it was the only script they knew.

The only reason why a push for a Somali script came about was because of the rapidly growing educated population post-1960 who were multilingual and could adapt to a linguistic change. There were other underlying reasons as well, lack of uniformity etc, but it is very clear to see the dominance of the Arabic script across Somalia pre-1960

 

[Periplus]

Turkey use letters like ü ö ä to represent the back vowels they ditched the whole arabic script

The main reason Turkey ditched the Arabic script is due to cansuurinimo.

Attaturk could not have his people using the script of their former subjects.

 

[Caaro]

arabic script has exactly the same amount of vowels as somali

there’s kordhik for “a” and kordhik + madd (alif) با for “aa”

hoosdhik for “i” and hoosdhik + madd (ya ي) for “ii”

and gudan for “u” and gudan + madd (waaw و) for “uu”

for the rest of the vowels you interchange the madds with different vowels to make the sounds.

ba: بَ
baa: بَا
bi: بِ
bii: بِي
bu: بُ
buu: بُو
be: بَي
bo: بَو

to make your argument even worse is that the arabic script has all the consonants that Somali has and none that Somali doesn’t. Where as the latin script not only has consonants that somalis don’t use like “p” they don’t have consonants we do use.

I agree with your message overall but there is literally no reason why Somalis use the latin script over the arabic script besides the fact that we were colonized by people who used the latin script.

even if you use your vowel argument the same can be applied to latin which doesn’t have stretched vowel sounds which is why we resorted to using two vowels next to each other.

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

The main reason Turkey ditched the Arabic script is due to cansuurinimo.

Attaturk could not have his people using the script of their former subjects.

arabic script has exactly the same amount of vowels as somali

there’s kordhik for “a” and kordhik + madd (alif) با for “aa”

hoosdhik for “i” and hoosdhik + madd (ya ي) for “ii”

and gudan for “u” and gudan + madd (waaw و) for “uu”

for the rest of the vowels you interchange the madds with different vowels to make the sounds.

ba: بَ
baa: بَا
bi: بِ
bii: بِي
bu: بُ
buu: بُو
be: بَي
bo: بَو

to make your argument even worse is that the arabic script has all the consonants that Somali has and none that Somali doesn’t. Where as the latin script not only has consonants that somalis don’t use like “p” they don’t have consonants we do use.

I agree with your message overall but there is literally no reason why Somalis use the latin script over the arabic script besides the fact that we were colonized by people who used the latin script.

even if you use your vowel argument the same can be applied to latin which doesn’t have stretched vowel sounds which is why we resorted to using two vowels next to each other.

Bruh the latin favouritism for the somali language isn't only about vowels but also about diphthongs. But if we purify the somali language like the turkish we'd drop letters like
ع خ ح

All the problems was that the rapid pace of adopting the latin script to teach the illetrate mass prevented us from adopting diacritics. Even today majority of Arabs are functionally illiterate.

 

[Periplus]

But if we purify the somali language like the turkish

Bro, for all the praise Attaturk gets about "purifying" the Turkish language, his political party still has the word "Jamhurriyya" in their name.

To say hello in Turkish is "Merhaba".

I don't think they're the perfect example of "purifying" a langugae.

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

Bro, for all the praise Attaturk gets about "purifying" the Turkish language, his political party still has the word "Jamhurriyya" in their name.

To say hello in Turkish is "Merhaba".

I don't think they're the perfect example of "purifying" a langugae.

Turkish had loads more Persian and Arab words before. But he cracked down and modernised the country. Turkey and isreal are the only industlised countries in the Middle East. Funfact if you tae oil out of the exports of Arab countries, they export less products than Finland. Finland has a population of 5 million while the Arab world has 400 million. Backwardness shows.

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

Turkish had loads more Persian and Arab words before. But he cracked down and modernised the country. Turkey and isreal are the only industlised countries in the Middle East. Funfact if you tae oil out of the exports of Arab countries, they export less products than Finland. Finland has a population of 5 million while the Arab world has 400 million. Backwardness shows.

86% of words are of turkish origin

 

[Periplus]

Turkish had loads more Persian and Arab words before. But he cracked down and modernised the country. Turkey and isreal are the only industlised countries in the Middle East. Funfact if you tae oil out of the exports of Arab countries, they export less products than Finland. Finland has a population of 5 million while the Arab world has 400 million. Backwardness shows.

It is also what people have done with oil money.

Discounting the GCC's achievements based on oil is discounting the arguably good leadership they had to rapidly develop their nations. There are many oil producing nations in Africa, South America and SE Asia that have not been able reach such economic growth with massive oil reserves.

 

[Periplus]

86% of words are of turkish origin

Yes, I have two counter points. First, a country can make up a new word to replace a loan word but that does not mean the rest of the populace will adapt. Second, that graph does not include words that are based off a specific loan word.

These are all the Turkish words that use the loan word "Hak", from the Arabic "Haqq" as in right or privilege.

haksız, haklı, haksızlık, haklılık, hakkında, hak yemek, hakkından gelmek, hak etmek, haksızlığa uğramak, hakkını almak, hakkını aramak, hak tanımak, hakkı için, hakkı olmak, hakkını vermek, hakkını ödemek, haksız bulmak, haksız eylem…

 

[Shimbiris]

Arabic was literally the script for Somalis up until independence.

The modern Somali language was adapted to fit the Arabic script over time, I would wager.

Somali Far Wadaad is a little complicated and diacritic heavy, to be fair:



But here, for example, is what I meant about how even random lay people can easily repurpose the script:

Made a digital rendition with a few edits:

B - ﺏ
T - ﺕ
J - ﺝ
X - ﺡ
Kh - ﺥ
D - د
Dh - ذ
R - ر
S - س
Sh - ش
C - ﻉ
F - ف
Q - ﻕ
K - ﻙ
G - كَ
L - ﻝ
M - ﻡ
N - ن
W - و
H - ه
Y - ﻱ
E - ى
EE - ىَ
I - إ
II - إِ
O - ؤ
OO - ؤَ
U - وُ
UU - وَُ
A - ا
AA - آ

Pretty simple and straightforward script. And, as discussed earlier, it should be used very phonetically. Insert vowels and don't use Arabic as an abjad and just write words equivalent to how they are spelled in the current Latin script. Would be incredibly easy for Somalis who already tend to know how to read the Arabic script to pick something like this up.

Example text using a random news article:

Talaado, Luulyo, 27, 2021 (HOL) - Midowga Yurub (EU) iyo la-hawlgalayaashooda ayaa kala bar dhimay miisaaniyadda ciidamada Kenya ee ku sugan Soomaaliya, ka dib markii askarta Kenya ay si qarsoodi ah uga baxeen howlgalka AMISOM.

(made a few spelling errors so apologies)
​

The script can work just fine with Somali if well repurposed. There's no need to follow prior established rules of the script either. Why? You're using it for a language it was never really intended for anyway.

And I much prefer it as it is the writing system Somalis used for about a millennia. Has real history and weight to it and it is not "Ana Carab" to use it. Iranics, Pakistanis, various West African Muslims and such all use it due to cultural heritage. Plus, it'd be kind of cool to appear as a sort of civilizational block with other Muslims. Seeing the same script everywhere you go in the Muslim world as a sort of cultural counter to Latin use among gaalo.

Brain-dead take somali like Turkey has vowel harmony but Turkey use letters like ü ö ä to represent the back vowels they ditched the whole arabic script. Pakistan and iran where also looking to throw it away. Somali just didn't add the diacritics needed.

Do you normally hurl insults at people who simply disagree with you and didn't hurl a single insult in your direction? Are you a teenager or something?

Also, there is no serious drive to abandon the Arabic script in Pakistan or Iran. There is at best a phenomenon of people online using latin for typing but there is no official drive as far as I know. Where did you get that?

Unless you were completely closed off, you had the ability to read the quran due to dugsi.

That's why people used the Arabic script to write Somali because it was the only script they knew.

The only reason why a push for a Somali script came about was because of the rapidly growing educated population post-1960 who were multilingual and could adapt to a linguistic change. There were other underlying reasons as well, lack of uniformity etc, but it is very clear to see the dominance of the Arabic script across Somalia pre-1960

Something I posted once elsewhere that would be relevant here:

Yeah, I honestly even question how "illiterate" Somali nomads historically were because in both the north and the south going back to the 1800s you read about kids being taught the Qur'an by wandering Wadaads and using these traditional wooden boards to read it and write it:

This is from the 1800s in Koonfur:

The second one is from a guy who had an engravings collection of Koonfur on some collectors site. He made the preview pics pretty damn high resolution so I had no need to purchase his originals:

Old Pictures of southern Somali country

The first is just from a google search of "Qur'an wood boards, Somalia". A lot pop up. These are still actually used in the rural areas of Somaliweyn to this day.

Qur'an wood boards, Somalia - Google Search

Even to this day rural kids are taught to read the Qur'an and you'd be surprised how many know the Arabic script and probably did even a century ago despite the old census' claim of illiteracy though I am sure it was fairly accurate in terms of literacy in an actual functional day to day language like the Somali language itself.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

When abdullahi isse was prime minster during the trusteeship some Arab nationalists were against the recognition of somali as the national language.

Whaaaaat? When you say arab nationalist, are you talking about arab speaking somalis or just regular arabs?

 

[Xanibacal bin Barqa]

Soomalinimada Af Soomaali ugu dood oo af ajnabiga bal naga daa maandhow aan ku dhagaysanee

 

[Ahmedahmed5000]

Whaaaaat? When you say arab nationalist, are you talking about arab speaking somalis or just regular arabs?

Certain somalis who wanted to adopt the arabic language as the state language, but some also wanted Italian by they were fringe.