Origins of T-BY182320

Step a side

Step a side

VIP
kaahin13 said:
Come on man you know that bronze age lineage aint gonna be related to us. Check out T-CTS11451, you'll see tons of arabs on their. if a deep subclade is found in that sample you know its gonna be under that.

It originating from the fertile crescent doesnt mean that it had to go through the arabian peninsula into HOA. And even if it did, why don't we see alot of samples along the migratory path? The arabian peninsula is oversampled and even if it did venture their in low frequency, just by the tribal nature of arabs, some tribes will go through founder effects. Also that region never went through massive population change, the relative population group is static, so why aren't the descendents of the sabaeans, himyars, hadramis, adnanis positive for T-Y45591?
Click to expand...
The Bronze Age T sample was not meant to be related to the Somali T. It was meant to understand the overall migration patterns of T carriers. It’s quite clear the Arabs, Somalis and other nomadic groups went through a heavy bottleneck. We see this with E-M81 in North Africa. It was absent during the Mesolithic era. R1b/a in Indo Europeans. Before them Europe was G dominant.

Sabeans, Himyarite etc were quite recent. By then the peninsula was already J1 dominant. Adnan was meant to be from 1 singular person from Ismaeel (as) so no wonder we get J1 FGC12 dominant among Adnan. Saba himself was from one male

Ibn Jarir recorded that Farwah bin Musayk Al-Ghutayfi, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "A man said, `O Messenger of Allah! Tell me about Saba' -- what was it, a land or a woman' He said:

«لَيْسَ بِأَرْضٍ وَلَا امْرَأَةٍ، وَلَكِنَّهُ رَجُلٌ وُلِدَ لَهُ عَشَرَةٌ مِنَ الْوَلَدِ، فَتَيَامَنَ سِتَّةٌ وَتَشَاءَمَ أَرْبَعَةٌ، فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ تَشَاءَمُوا: فَلَخْمٌ وَجُذَامٌ وَعَامِلَةُ وَغَسَّانُ، وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ تَيَامَنُوا: فَكِنْدَةُ وَالْأَشْعَرِيُّونَ وَالْأَزْدُ وَمَذْحِجٌ وَحِمْيَرُ وَأَنْمَار»
(It was neither a land nor a woman. It was a man who had ten children, six of whom went Yemen and four of whom went Ash-Sham. Those who went Ash-Sham were Lakhm, Judham, `Amilah and Ghassan. Those who went south were Kindah, Al-Ash`ariyyun, Al-Azd, Madhhij, Himyar and Anmar.) A man asked, `Who are Anmar' He said:

«الَّذِينَ مِنْهُمْ خَثْعَمُ وَبَجِيلَة»
(Those among whom are Khath`am and Bajilah. )" This was recorded by At-Tirmidhi in his Jami` Sunan in more detail than this; then he said, "This is a Hasan Gharib Hadith."
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
K

kaahin13

Step a side said:
The Bronze Age T sample was not meant to be related to the Somali T. It was meant to understand the overall migration patterns of T carriers. It’s quite clear the Arabs, Somalis and other nomadic groups went through a heavy bottleneck. We see this with E-M81 in North Africa. It was absent during the Mesolithic era. R1b/a in Indo Europeans. Before them Europe was G dominant.

Sabeans, Himyarite etc were quite recent. By then the peninsula was already J1 dominant. Adnan was meant to be from 1 singular person from Ismaeel (as) so no wonder we get J1 FGC12 dominant among Adnan. Saba himself was from one male
Click to expand...

btw I have nothing against an Arab origin, just that the evidence isn’t strong enough. Maybe something in the future pops up that strengthens the correlation. For now I’m pretty sure it comes from an undersampled area like northeast Africa.
 
Griezmann7711

Griezmann7711

Step a side said:
T1 and J1 are found everywhere together and appear everywhere roughly at the same time. It’s just that one lineage is more successful at certain places compared to the other. No doubt the T1 found in Somalia is of Arabian origin.

Did you guys know that another T1 strain is found in Somalis that is completely different to the Dir/Isaaq one? It was found among the Raxanweyne.
Click to expand...
Can you show me, very interesting. I may already seen it, you could be referring to the one I think it is.
 
Step a side

Step a side

VIP
Griezmann7711 said:
Yeah I saw it after asking I just scrolled down. I also meant like have you seen the guy that got that T sub clade. I saw this Rahanweyn guy from Bakool region that got it, in the Y-full it also says Bakool, is it the same person?


my-23andme-dna-results.141066
Click to expand...
Yea it’s him. 2 reewin from the same clan got this lineage. It’s unique to them so far. Let’s wait and see what other unique lineages are out there. I’ve seen a J2 bay&bakool ashraaf guy as well.
 
B

Banadiri Warrior

Balaayo said:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Click to expand...
This source talks about it ,it doesn't go further than sub sub clan tho , and the aggregated ogaden groups are most likely recent .
Screenshot_20230525_134234.jpg
 
B

Banadiri Warrior

reer_ugaas_hussein said:
It wasn't found in all raxanweyn but only in mirifle sagaal clans like luwaay and hadame and this makes lineage wise sense, as these clans do infact claim to descend from an arab ancestor umar diin who is said to have lived in harar and was a descendent of abu bakr al sidiqi. I think unlike with Darood their claim to arab origin may have some truth and their T lineage may come form the arab peninsula. But the majority of raxanweyne like eelaay, hariin and so on are EV-32
Click to expand...
They don't claim Omar diin to be from Abu Bakr Al siddiq, his origin isn't agreed upon some say he's actually descendant of digil some say he's from the azd tribe, there's another Omar diin that lived in harar who is a grandson of abadir faqih cumar I think you're confusing those two
 
B

Banadiri Warrior

Step a side said:
yes you are right, majority of raxanweyne get E-V32. I even know of a J2 guy from Bay-Bakool Area. The T1 found among the tribes you mentioned are also found among Sudanese and other horn Africans. I doubt it came with the Islamic sheikhs. It has an ancient presence in Africa and most likely came with other middle Easter derived E-CTS10880 and J1 lineages like P56 among others.

T-Y15711 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

E-CTS10880 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
Click to expand...
What clans were the raxanweyns that got ev32?
 
Step a side

Step a side

VIP
Banadiri Warrior said:
What clans were the raxanweyns that got ev32?
Click to expand...
Didn’t go into too much details. We already have 1 E-V32 on Yfull but he refuses to respond to my emails. He is being unanimous. https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/

Another two Reewin T are on YFull but around 7/8 have got T-L208 on 23&me. It’s seems to be prevalent among a specific section/lineage of Reewin. This subclade of T-L208 is found among Tigres and Arabs from Yemen/Saudi/Iraq

T-Y15711 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
 
reer_ugaas_hussein

reer_ugaas_hussein

Banadiri Warrior said:
They don't claim Omar diin to be from Abu Bakr Al siddiq, his origin isn't agreed upon some say he's actually descendant of digil some say he's from the azd tribe, there's another Omar diin that lived in harar who is a grandson of abadir faqih cumar I think you're confusing those two
Click to expand...
I got this from Virginia lulings paper on the geledi where she mentions they claim he is buried in Harar
1685025035728.png

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1317929/1/302018.pdf
beginning page 27 in which she talks about the legends of the geledi
 
B

Banadiri Warrior

Step a side said:
Didn’t go into too much details. We already have 1 E-V32 on Yfull but he refuses to respond to my emails. He is being unanimous. https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/

Another two Reewin T are on YFull but around 7/8 have got T-L208 on 23&me. It’s seems to be prevalent among a specific section/lineage of Reewin. This subclade of T-L208 is found among Tigres and Arabs from Yemen/Saudi/Iraq

T-Y15711 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
Click to expand...
Him saying raxanweyn doesn't give any beneficial info it's just like saying somali.

Can you try finding out the clans of the ones with T-L208 , so far I've seen luwaay and a hadame khamiisle
 
Misil

Misil

Banadiri Warrior said:
This source talks about it ,it doesn't go further than sub sub clan tho , and the aggregated ogaden groups are most likely recent .View attachment 275115
Click to expand...

A few families here and there associated with a laf doesn’t change the validity of the core clan. It’s similar to how there’s said to be Ogaden families within Jidle and vice versa. This obviously doesn’t mean entire lineages are of “foreign” origin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Trending

Latest posts

Top