If u ask them they will say their Somalis but their facial features are a dead giveaway lol. Like i said thats what they told me but who knows
Omani Governor of Mogadishu??
- Thread starter Pipit
- Start date
See Lulling, Somali Sultanate, Chap. 2.
The Geledi controlled nothing east of the Shabelli nor south of Buullo Mareer. The Geledi lost their allies when Yusuf tried to consolidate power in the South after the battle of Baardheere and had no power outside their own lands after Ahmad was killed fighting the Biimaal in 1878.
For the Omanis in Hamar and elsewhere in Somalia, see
Alpers: Muqdisho in the 19th Century.
Muqdisho in the Nineteenth Century: A Regional Perspective on JSTOR
During the nineteenth century Muqdisho experienced a significant revival in its fortunes after several centuries of gradual decline from its medieval heyday. Wh...
www.jstor.org
pp. 441-459
It''s all well worth reading.
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See Lulling, Somali Sultanate, Chap. 2.
The Hiraab and Geledi controlled nothing east of the Shabelli nor south of Buullo Mareer. The Geledi lost their allies when Yusuf tried to consolidate power in the South after the battle of Baardheere and had no power outside their own lands after Ahmad was killed fighting the Biimaal in 1878.
For the Omanis in Hamar and elsewhere in Somalia, see
Alpers: Muqdisho in the 19th Century.
Muqdisho in the Nineteenth Century: A Regional Perspective on JSTOR
During the nineteenth century Muqdisho experienced a significant revival in its fortunes after several centuries of gradual decline from its medieval heyday. Wh...
pp. 441-459
It''s all well worth reading.
a book written by a man. I can write a book about how somalia invaded Britain. It doesn’t make it true. I am literally looking throughout the internet and I can’t seem to find these claims your making other than this book you sourced. Even Wikipedia says otherwise. You probably an insecure cad cad guy, sorry Siri Lankan midgit. It’s not our fault you ain’t got history.
BaAlawi live in Dhofar too. Dhofar is culturally and historically a part of Hadhramawt.
James Dahl
VIP
Oman forced Mogadishu to recognize Omani suzerainty in 1828 when Omani warships bombarded the city. Later Oman sent an army and conquered the city in 1863. Oman installed a governor in 1872. Oman governed Mogadishu for 20 years then leased it to Italy in 1893.
James Dahl
VIP
Mogadishu had two Omani Walis (governors) the first was Sayyid ‘Abdu’llah bin Ja’ad bin Khalaf who served as interim governor from 1870 until 1872 when the official governor Sayyid Sulaiman bin Hamad arrived, and he governed Mogadishu for the whole period between 1872 and 1893.
This picture is of a different guy, maybe one of the earlier "de facto" governors.
This picture is of a different guy, maybe one of the earlier "de facto" governors.
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I would like to correct this thread as many dubious claims have been mentioned on this thread.
Mogadishu on the other hand was really controlled by the Sultan of the Geledi, and minor ports were in the hands of members of other clans. The only representatives of the Sultan of Zanzibar were customs officers, who collected the income of a trade which had been much less influenced by new demands and forces than that of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden.
Source: The Cambridge History of Africa, Volume 5 - Page 88
Already at this period, the Sultanate of Zanzibar claimed sovereignty over the Benadir ports, but the control exercised was merely nominal. As far as Mogadishu was concerned, it was Yusuf who had the more immediately superior power. The city was then in the hands of the Abgal, and in a state of decay and near-ruin. Two years before, Yusuf' had been called in to mediate in a dispute over the succession to the position of Sheikh; the city was divided into two hostile quarters, which had become in effect rival towns. He had arrived with an army of about 8,000 men, and gave his decision in favour of the chief of the Shingani quarter. This latter's rival, unwilling to accept the decision, but unable to resist Yusuf's superior force, escaped from the city, leaving his section of it to be ruled by a kinsman.
Source: Dr. Virginia Luling "The social structure of southern Somali tribes" page 177
The removal of decorative images of so-called governors, who didn't actually govern anything according to several sources. These so-called governors were in-fact ceremonial. This combined with Sayyid Barghash having to ask for permission from the Geledi Sultan to build a fort in the city shows that beyond 'claiming' they had no control or impact on the day to day of the city, which was in-fact in the hands of the local Mogadishans and the Geledi Sultan.
Another mistake people make is Zanzibar didn't lease Mogadishu to the Italians which has already been discredited.
The Sultan of Zanzibar later leased and then sold the infrastructure that he had built to the Italians, although not the land which is wrongfully stated by some accounts.
Source: Ghalib, Jama Mohamed (2014) page 25
Mogadishu on the other hand was really controlled by the Sultan of the Geledi, and minor ports were in the hands of members of other clans. The only representatives of the Sultan of Zanzibar were customs officers, who collected the income of a trade which had been much less influenced by new demands and forces than that of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden.
Source: The Cambridge History of Africa, Volume 5 - Page 88
Already at this period, the Sultanate of Zanzibar claimed sovereignty over the Benadir ports, but the control exercised was merely nominal. As far as Mogadishu was concerned, it was Yusuf who had the more immediately superior power. The city was then in the hands of the Abgal, and in a state of decay and near-ruin. Two years before, Yusuf' had been called in to mediate in a dispute over the succession to the position of Sheikh; the city was divided into two hostile quarters, which had become in effect rival towns. He had arrived with an army of about 8,000 men, and gave his decision in favour of the chief of the Shingani quarter. This latter's rival, unwilling to accept the decision, but unable to resist Yusuf's superior force, escaped from the city, leaving his section of it to be ruled by a kinsman.
Source: Dr. Virginia Luling "The social structure of southern Somali tribes" page 177
The removal of decorative images of so-called governors, who didn't actually govern anything according to several sources. These so-called governors were in-fact ceremonial. This combined with Sayyid Barghash having to ask for permission from the Geledi Sultan to build a fort in the city shows that beyond 'claiming' they had no control or impact on the day to day of the city, which was in-fact in the hands of the local Mogadishans and the Geledi Sultan.
Another mistake people make is Zanzibar didn't lease Mogadishu to the Italians which has already been discredited.
The Sultan of Zanzibar later leased and then sold the infrastructure that he had built to the Italians, although not the land which is wrongfully stated by some accounts.
Source: Ghalib, Jama Mohamed (2014) page 25
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@Pipit Xamar was going through an intra Imamate war, separated into two quarters and was subsequently bombed in 1828 by the British funded Omani when they refused Protection.
15 years later when no settlement was achieved they petitioned for a neutral governor, Cali Maxamed was appointed, who was the youngest of the reer Imaam.
Omanis and Egyptians (Khedive) did compete for parts of the country, they claimed the whole coast from Seylac to Kismayo but didn't claim Goobweyn to Baraawe, in reality it was just a few towns, some which didn't recognise foreign powers at all.
15 years later when no settlement was achieved they petitioned for a neutral governor, Cali Maxamed was appointed, who was the youngest of the reer Imaam.
Omanis and Egyptians (Khedive) did compete for parts of the country, they claimed the whole coast from Seylac to Kismayo but didn't claim Goobweyn to Baraawe, in reality it was just a few towns, some which didn't recognise foreign powers at all.
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Oman/zanzibar actually controlled Mogadishu only for a few years in the mid-late 19th century and it was always a joint control with local somalis. Ethnic somalis were appointed to key positions, it wasn't a colonizer-colonized relationship like they had in tanzania.
Anyway benadiris are mostly descendants of pre- oman arabs, omanis, yemenis , Somalis and bantus. The social status of benadiris in somalia is middle/low class. Benadiris were never a strong political force and infact they are politically grouped with minorities, if omanis had a huge impact as they claim why don't we have any major benadiri influence in national somali politics from 1960 untill now?
This is very different from other former omani territories like zanzibar which was ruled by arabs untill the violent overthrow of the monarchy in the 1960s
Anyway benadiris are mostly descendants of pre- oman arabs, omanis, yemenis , Somalis and bantus. The social status of benadiris in somalia is middle/low class. Benadiris were never a strong political force and infact they are politically grouped with minorities, if omanis had a huge impact as they claim why don't we have any major benadiri influence in national somali politics from 1960 untill now?
This is very different from other former omani territories like zanzibar which was ruled by arabs untill the violent overthrow of the monarchy in the 1960s
Omanis controlled nothing. These governors like the previous source I posted were custom officers and had no political involvement in the day to day life in Mogadishu. These governors were largely ceremonial. Please re-read what I posted.
If you want to know the truth. The reason why these custom officers were in Mogadishu in the first place is because the Mogadishu elites called them to counterbalance the Geledi influence. They weren't sent under the permission of Omanis.
However, that failed since the Geledi extracted annual tribute from the Benadir coast (Mogadishu, Merca, and Barawa). During his stay in Barawa, he was noted by the locals Abobokur Yusuf the brother of Sultan Ahmed Yusuf, and the commander of Geledi forces would send messengers to Barawa to pay tribute.
'' The Somali tribe of Ruhwaina. The Chief of this and other tribes behind Brava, Marka and Mogdisho is Ahmed Yusuf, who resides at Galhed, one day's march or less from the latter town. Two days further inland is Dafert, a large town governed by Aweka Haji, his brother. These are the principal towns of the Ruhwaina. At four, five, and six hours respectively from Marka lie the towns of Golveen (Golweyn), Bulo Mareerta, and Addormo, governed by Abobokur Yusuf, another brother who though nominally under the orders of the first-named chief, levies black-mail on his own account, and negotiates with the governors of Marka and Brava direct. He resides with about 2,000 soldiers principally slaves at Bulo Mareta; the towns of Gulveen which he often vists and Addormo being occupied by somalis growing produce, cattle &c. and doing a large trade with Marka. The brother of Sultan Ahmed, Abobokur Yusuf managed the lands opposite the Banadir ports of Brava & Marka and also received a tribute from Brava.
This Abobokur Yusuf was accustomed to send messengers to Brava for tribute, and he drew thence about 2,000 dollars per annum. ''
Source: House of Commons Accounts and Papers
In fact, despite Omani presence being merely nominal they too were expected to pay tribute to the Geledi in gold, frequently. One time they didn't have sufficient gold and these custom officers were expelled back to Zanzibar. There was a report stating Geledi Sultanate was more powerful than even Zanzibar Sultanate.
This is also evident because Geledi Sultanate during the reign of Sultan Ahmed Yusuf managed to force Omani rulers to submit tribute, not just the custom officers proving Geledi superiority in the region.
Please explain how it was the Biimaal kept the Geledi west of the Shabelli, killed Yusuf and many of his men in 1848, killed Axmed and his forces in 1878; leaving Osman, the Geledi successor powerless and without influence outside the Geledi triangle Afgoi-Buulo Mereer-Buur Heybe, and still did all that you claim....
The Zanzibaris did not need Axmad's permission to build the Garessa in Shingaani in 1871. What they needed was the acquiescence of the Yaquub Abgaal, who would loose their share of the customs. Axmad wanted the Zanzibari Sultan's friendship and stabilizing presence in the port and blackmailed the Abgaal to give in by threatening to reroute the grain trade to Baraawe and Merka.
Don't forget that Oman had a fleet and, after 1871, garrisons in all the towns. The Zanzibaris were welcomed in Merka, where they built a Garessa in the 1860s. The town elders all along the coast blessed the Zanzibari presence because of the trade and stability, and Zanzibar paid no tribute to the Geledi anywhere at any time. The Zanzibaris taxed the caravans coming from the interior and generally promoted trade from inland. When Baardheere burned Barawe, the town appealed to Sultan Barghash, not the Geledi.
Casannelli,1982, pp,175-176; 182-18,. etc. I strongly suggest you actually read Luling's Sultanate. Please learn how to footnote!
Don't think for a moment the Europeans didn't think Zanzibar had legal title to the Benadir towns. The entire story of the Zanzibari lease to Italy is here:
pp. 549-563
Nonsense! Geledi Sultanate was a Rahanweyn confederacy state led by Geledi and their influence was beyond Afgooye. They held sway over the Jubba and Shabelle valleys including the Benadir coast. Merca was once part of the Geledi Sultanate during Sultan Yusuf Mahamud's reign until their rebellion in the mid-1800s. They were the only clan in the southwest that resisted Geledi hegemony while other clans accepted the Geledi rule. It was the same thing in Ahmed Yusuf's time just without Bimaal being part of the confederacy but he still managed to extract tribute from Merca because he controlled the interior trade.
Like I said again the Omani governors in Mogadishu, Barawa, and Merca were largely ceremonial. They didn't govern anything. These so-called governors were in-fact 'custom officers'. That is an undisputed historical fact.
Please read the Cambridge History of Africa a very credible source when it comes to Islamic African history. This is according to them:
Mogadishu on the other hand, was really controlled by the Sultan of the Geledi, and minor ports were in the hands of members of other clans. The only representatives of the Sultan of Zanzibar were customs officers, who collected the income of a trade which had been much less influenced by new demands and forces than that of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden. -- Source: The Cambridge History of Africa, Volume 5 - Page 88
And their garrisons were to protect their trading ships. It was not because they had military control on the coast. The Geledi allowed them and gave them permission to build them because it would benefit them economically.
For your information,
The Sultans of Zanzibar, in the meantime, were forced to respect the authority of Geledi rulers.........For example, the Sultan of Zanzibar sought to construct a fort in Mogadishu in 1870, he had to obtain the approval of the Sultan Ahmed Yusuf of Geledi.
Read for yourself: https://archive.org/details/generalhistoryof00unes/page/386/mode/2up
Maybe you're about Reer Barawa asking Zanzibar for help against the Jama'a but they did nothing as the Geledi forces took care of it. The Tunni clan were part of the Geledi confederacy and were part of the kingdom where they would pay an annual tribute.
Look there are accounts of Zanzibar leasing Mogadishu to the Italians but it has been discredited by modern historians. It has been proven Sultan of Zanzibar later leased and then sold the infrastructure that he had built to the Italians, but not the land itself, which was Somali owned. The source I posted that discredits this account was published in 2014.
Using Virginia Luling source is not always credible sure a lot of things she says are true but she's not perfect since she has made many errors that have been discredited by modern scholars. For example, she claimed the original population of Barawa were Swahili.
It has been widely accepted Barawa was founded by Aw Ali a native Tunni man. I will like to quote from one of the old sources from Mohamed Haji Mukhtar who you find credible.
The original population speaking a different language is an assumption made by Virginia Lulling & co in connection with the Kitab Al Zunuj foundation origins which has also been investigated in the archeological study and it states:
For Example Barawa, in particular, speaking Swahili and the difference between Barawa and other ports as this text says is that later migrants came at the turn of the 15th century which is what accounts for the presence of the language. Presumably to seek refuge from the Portuguese. It's actually the reverse that happened in what was originally posited. Barawa was founded by a saint from the Tunni clan called Aw-Ali Barrow majority of scholars particularly agree on that (see [23]) and Rahanweyn was the earliest settlers there and established that port. So the idea that the original population spoke Swahili or another language is not well accepted as the source above me shows.
Relying on old sources for everything is disingenuous because some things they state can be very wrong that is why history is being studied and investigated every day and new information pops out.
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That's mostly irrelevant hogwash. The Geledi had power when they had allies, such as during the Baardheere Jihad. But they lost their allies both times they tried to consolidate power by taking the Biimaal port at Mungiya, costing Yusuf and Axmad their lives and ending Geledi power after 1878. The entire period of Geledi influence outside their own triangle was only 1843-1878, and it was ended by the single Biimaal clan in just two battles.
Do you understand that the Zanzibaris collected taxes on produce leaving Somalia, as well as customs on goods coming in? The Zanzibari fleet controlled who could trade and where. The garrisons produced stability in the towns. These facts are what convinced the Europeans of Zanzibari ownership. Nobody cared who controlled the interior clans as long as they paid their taxes and did not dispute Zanzibari (or later, Italian) hegemony.
Once they took political control about 1909-1910, the Italians just took whatever land they wanted.
Your new sources, corrupted by Wikipedia and authors like Baadiyow, are the ones not to be trusted. Your reading of Luling needs work.
Just more horseshit with no proof. The source: Africa in the nineteenth century until the 1880s is not a new source and proved Sultan of Zanzibar sought permission from Sultan Ahmed Yusuf to construct a garrison from Mogadishu. It also proves Zanzibar's role on the Benadir coast being merely nominal. The same thing with Cambridge History of Africa proving Geledi Sultanate had more influence on the Benadir coast than Zanzibar Sultanate and regarded their "governors" as customs officers that had no real authority on the coast. Even Virginia Luling alludes to this and this is according to her:
I find it amusing how you're still able to talk with all this evidence in front of you. You said Sultan Ahmed had no control outside of Afgooye but according to Accounts and Papers of the House of Commons his brother Abubokor Yusuf would collect tributes from Mogadishu, Merca, and Barawa. He would also get involved in their political affairs. In fact, I suggest you learn about Sultan Osman's rule. Please read: Divine madness: Moḥammed ʻAbdulle Ḥassan (1856-1920). It talks about how Sultan Osman managed to repel Ethiopian forces in Luuq and Dervish forces in Xudur and Bakool regions. Everything you say is hogwash.
Please don't lie about Abdullahi Abdurahman because every claim he has made was referenced and none of them go back to Wikipedia. This only proves you haven't read his book. I also find it strange that you refer to Abdirahman Abdullahi's source as not being reliable when he is in-fact with a reputable peer-reviewed Publisher of African non-fiction/journals. [20]
Here is what he said about the Benadir coast and goes align with several sources I have shared with you.
Actually, my source is a study that is cited in that book The Origins and Development of Mogadishu AD 1000 to 1850 Ahmed Dualel Jama. [21]
and which is not a thesis by the way it's a credible peer-reviewed study cited in many books, you can do a google check it here [22] and it's carried out by an archeological unit for Mombasa Museum in Kenya. It states:
With all the evidence it has collected it has dismissed these Middle East/Swahili origin claims on the Benadir and suggests it was native found with the ancient Somali bones and architecture it managed to find. I suggest you check it out.
You have no excuse as this source has archaeological backing and done repeated studies and investigations on the Benadir coast. I know you're old but that shouldn't give you the excuse to be behind in history because it's been updated.
Lewis, Luling, Casannelli, and Ali Mukhtar's historical claims on false oral traditions have been investigated and discredited by modern historians. They were wrong about the Oromo, Bantu, and Benadir coast myths. I suggest you check out their evidence instead of following older scholars unambiguous claims like a headless sheep.
The Archaeology of Islam in Sub-Saharan Africa states:
The Origins and Development of Mogadishu AD 1000 to 1850 states:
These older scholars also claimed Himyar and Caliphate established a colony on the Benadir coast.
According to the Cambridge History of Africa who have one of the biggest historic documents in Africa investigated these claims and here is what they stated:
and discrediting more of their errors:
I have already gone back and forth with you before discussing what errors they have made and how they have been discredited by modern scholars through archaeological evidence, oral accounts, and ancient text findings. Everything you thought about the south has been wrong and disproven. You simply can't spin this and my advice for you stay updated and accept the evidences.
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Please fill in the holes in your post before making any more ludicrous claims.
I've quoted these sources and mentioned the book and chapters. I never made any claim. These are their claims and they have archaeological evidence. Lewis, Virginia Luling, Casannelli, and Ali Mukhtar were great historians then but they didn't have any evidence to their claims because all they did was quote misleading traditions that have been investigated and discredited by modern scholars. Please check them out and stop with the pettiness because there are no holes here but your arrogance. The only holes I see are your two previous comments you posted making dubious claims with no shred of evidence while I posted multiple references regarding Geledi Sultanate proving all my claims. You simply ignored them showing your dishonesty.
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