Modern British are less than 1% native British

Shimbiris

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Yes, native European HGs, at least the ones classed as "Western European Hunter-Gatherers" (WHG) lacked the light skin alleles found in modern West Eurasians but had the mutations for light eyes, from what I remember. But the ones further to the east like on the Pontic-Caspian Steppe who had significant Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) / ancient Siberian admixture had some folks with light skin alleles and I believe also some light hair and eyes as well.

This study sounds shifty, though. WHGs across Europe were pretty similar genetically. I don't know if you could reliably differentiate between the ones in Britain and say the ones in Germany or Italy or the Balkans. And the bottomline is that when Anatolian Neolithic Farmers migrated into Europe around 7-8,000 years ago and brought agriculture from the Middle-East to Europe they very gradually intermixed with various WHG groups and became more native-Euro shifted overtime to create what geneticists call "Early European Farmers" and brought features like lighter skin and I believe lighter hair in part as well. So one way or another all Brits have a lot of WHG ancestry. In fact, it's one of the main things that makes them genetically separate from Middle-Easterners in this cluster. If it wasn't for WHG and EHG ancestry, Europeans in general would just overlap with MENAs here:


Because the rest of their ancestry is Anatolian Neolithic and Caucaus-HG-related which are straight out of the Middle-East and cline with modern MENAs. I'd illustrate this better if I could but I'm still laptop hunting.

I think they exaggerated how dark skinned European hunter-gatherers were. It is only based on the idea that they lack a handful of depigmentation alleles that occurred later in West Eurasians, but at the same time these European HGs could have also lacked the genes that make Africans dark as well.

I think they likely had the skin tone of Thai people rather than Sub-Saharan Africans. It would be weird to be that dark in the ice age while having inhabited a cold area for 10,000s of years.

More likely like the San or light-skin madows, I'd wager. I wouldn't even be surprised if they were comparable to West Africans but the level of dark skin that can occur in Nilotes or Horner nomads; not even close. That took additional mutations. And they could be dark in ice age Europe, as one very knowledgeable anthropologist who passed away a few years ago pointed out, because they got most of their vitamin D via diet. Hunter-Gatherers like them ate a shit ton of things like fish and/or meat depending on where they are. I barely get any sun nowadays but am fine Vitamin D levels wise cos of the absurd amount of fish, eggs and meat I consume.
 
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Apollo

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More likely like the San or light-skin madows, I'd wager. I wouldn't even be surprised if they were comparable to West Africans but the level of dark skin that can occur in Nilotes or Horner nomads; not even close. That took additional mutations. And they could be dark in ice age Europe, as one very knowledgeable anthropologist who passed away a few years ago pointed out, because they got most of their vitamin D via diet. Hunter-Gatherers like them ate a shit ton of things like fish and/or meat depending on where they are. I barely get any sun nowadays but am fine Vitamin D levels wise cos of the absurd amount of fish, eggs and meat I consume.

I think there are woke motivations behind this to trigger European nationalists.

It would be really strange to have SSA skin tone that far north after +30,000 years of habitation. Remember much of Europe is on the same latitude as Central Canada and Siberia. It is just the Gulf Stream that makes it tolerable to live there, but the sun intensity is just as low as Central Canada and Siberia.

Lastly, skin tone altering genes occurred independently in West and East Eurasians. Since we don't have any modern living pure WHGs to do genome association studies on there is honestly no way to even know their legit skin tone. If you applied West Eurasian skin tone alleles on a modern East Eurasian without knowing East Eurasian skin tone alleles you'd come to the conclusions the Han Chinese were black skinned. That's why I am leaning towards the idea that they had SEA level skin tone rather than anything SSA-like. I think the latter is just too strange.
 

Shimbiris

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I think there are woke motivations behind this to trigger European nationalists.

It would be really strange to have SSA skin tone that far north after +30,000 years of habitation. Remember much of Europe is on the same latitude as Central Canada and Siberia. It is just the Gulf Stream that makes it tolerable to live there, but the sun intensity is just as low as Central Canada and Siberia.

Lastly, skin tone altering genes occurred independently in West and East Eurasians. Since we don't have any modern living pure WHGs to do genome association studies on there is honestly no way to even know their legit skin tone. If you applied West Eurasian skin tone alleles on a modern East Eurasian without knowing East Eurasian skin tone alleles you'd come to the conclusions the Han Chinese were black skinned. That's why I am leaning towards the idea that they had SEA level skin tone rather than anything SSA-like. I think the latter is just too strange.

But that's the thing, their diet as HGs would have made sense of why they wouldn't need to depigment much. Native Americans and Siberians aren't actually very pale in a lot of cases. Sometimes they are but you'd be surprised how much they can darken or how dark they still look in northern climes. If you're getting enough of that VD from eating lots of meat, seafood and the like which northern climes people tend to (almost completely carnivorous) due to a scarcity in plants, you won't really need to absorb that much through your skin. To be honest, skin absorption of VD is pretty exaggerated in importance from what I remember, it really is more important diet wise even for cadaans out in the sun. Light skin in cadaans seems more a chance occurrence to me than a truly useful adaptation. Well, I guess it is more useful and selected for when you're eating less nourishing agricultural diets so there's that.
 

Apollo

VIP
But that's the thing, their diet as HGs would have made sense of why they wouldn't need to depigment much. Native Americans and Siberians aren't actually very pale in a lot of cases. Sometimes they are but you'd be surprised how much they can darken or how dark they still look in northern climes. If you're getting enough of that VD from eating lots of meat, seafood and the like which northern climes people tend to (almost completely carnivorous) due to a scarcity in plants, you won't really need to absorb that much through your skin. To be honest, skin absorption of VD is pretty exaggerated in importance from what I remember, it really is more important diet wise even for cadaans out in the sun. Light skin in cadaans seems more a chance occurrence to me than a truly useful adaptation. Well, I guess it is more useful and selected for when you're eating less nourishing agricultural diets so there's that.

Yeah I was watching a documentary on North Korea the other day and noticed some of them were almost brown at times, especially the ones who worked outdoors, but still Mongoloids are obviously depigmented compared to Black Africans.

Still I think SSA level skin tone might genuinely not be evolutionary possible in Europe after 10,000s of years. Darkest level that seems reasonable in such an environment is likely SEA level, in my opinion.
 

Shimbiris

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Yeah I was watching a documentary on North Korea the other day and noticed some of them were almost brown at times, especially the ones who worked outdoors, but still Mongoloids are obviously depigmented compared to Black Africans.

Still I think SSA level skin tone might genuinely not be evolutionary possible in Europe after 10,000s of years. Darkest level that seems reasonable in such an environment is likely SEA level, in my opinion.

I think it's entirely possible, walaalkay. If we got plenty of game and fish to catch you and I and our descendants by Somali women would most assuredly survive and thrive for many thousands of years just fine.
 

Hybrid()

Death Awaits You
Yes, native European HGs, at least the ones classed as "Western European Hunter-Gatherers" (WHG) lacked the light skin alleles found in modern West Eurasians but had the mutations for light eyes, from what I remember. But the ones further to the east like on the Pontic-Caspian Steppe who had significant Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) / ancient Siberian admixture had some folks with light skin alleles and I believe also some light hair and eyes as well.

This study sounds shifty, though. WHGs across Europe were pretty similar genetically. I don't know if you could reliably differentiate between the ones in Britain and say the ones in Germany or Italy or the Balkans. And the bottomline is that when Anatolian Neolithic Farmers migrated into Europe around 7-8,000 years ago and brought agriculture from the Middle-East to Europe they very gradually intermixed with various WHG groups and became more native-Euro shifted overtime to create what geneticists call "Early European Farmers" and brought features like lighter skin and I believe lighter hair in part as well. So one way or another all Brits have a lot of WHG ancestry. In fact, it's one of the main things that makes them genetically separate from Middle-Easterners in this cluster. If it wasn't for WHG and EHG ancestry, Europeans in general would just overlap with MENAs here:


Because the rest of their ancestry is Anatolian Neolithic and Caucaus-HG-related which are straight out of the Middle-East and cline with modern MENAs. I'd illustrate this better if I could but I'm still laptop hunting.



More likely like the San or light-skin madows, I'd wager. I wouldn't even be surprised if they were comparable to West Africans but the level of dark skin that can occur in Nilotes or Horner nomads; not even close. That took additional mutations. And they could be dark in ice age Europe, as one very knowledgeable anthropologist who passed away a few years ago pointed out, because they got most of their vitamin D via diet. Hunter-Gatherers like them ate a shit ton of things like fish and/or meat depending on where they are. I barely get any sun nowadays but am fine Vitamin D levels wise cos of the absurd amount of fish, eggs and meat I consume.
humans began to settle in Europe 45k years ago and spread throughout Europe. The earliest modern human remains found in Britain dates back to 40k years. Tbh that's enough time for different Cro-magnons population to have changes in their genomes and I don't think they were all closely related
 

Shimbiris

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humans began to settle in Europe 45k years ago and spread throughout Europe. The earliest modern human remains found in Britain dates back to 40k years. Tbh that's enough time for different Cro-magnons population to have changes in their genomes and I don't think they were all closely related

There hasn't really been a lot of direct continuity. There are many Upper Paleolithic groups in Europe that were genetic deadends. The one that seems to have survived to contribute to modern Euros is "WHG" which seems related to a WHG-like element in the Middle East. Probably something to do with the Levantine Aurignacian:

 

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