Lingustics in the horn of africa

[Midas]

Don't waste your time , he just writes long paragraphs of nonsense to argue with you and bend facts to fit his fixed belief.

Herbert Lewis even pointed out that the Oromo language clusters with Konso, Gedeo, Gato, Gidole, Gawwata , all of which are found in southern Ethiopia, the same area where the Oromo themselves say they originated, including the Warday, who trace their origin to the Borana region.
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Their late expansion into the Horn during the early modern period is obvious for two reasons, even if we put aside the historical writings:


1) They don’t show the kind of dialectal differentiation that Somali has, which means they haven’t been separated long. The Somali language has split into many regional dialects ,that only happens when people have been spread out over a large area for a long time.

As Lewis said:
'Galla , it is clear , cannot have begun seperating very long ago , since their ''language is so essentially constant that the women and children of Gurri tribe who inhabit El Wak oaisis and the surrounding districts ... talk the same dialect as those of the Walega''
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Same point made by the linguist Sasse:

''Further research has shown that at least four linguistic stages that the Somalis have gone through are missing from the Oromo language''
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2) A large number of Oromos were pagan until the 19th century , even those near Harar and Bale were still pagan until Somalis converted them. The Orma were also pagan. How could they have been indigenous or previously present to those areas when they hadn't even adopted Islam or Christianity, unlike the populations around them? So this shows they were a recent imposition.

That’s why so many colonial authors wrongly thought they were somehow the “original” population , their paganism made them stand out, not their actual history in the region.

I didnt want to add this to the schizophrenia thread so I'm making a new one. But I think the point you raise is a very interesting one. None of the cushitic and semetic lanaguges spoken in the horn of africa currently have this level of dialect variation we find in somalia. Amahric is apparently almost uniform which leads me to believe that its also a pretty recent language.

This kind of also shows how unqiue Somali is in the cushitic language family. There are like 40 cushitic language most of the are extremely tiny and spoken by a few thosuand people afar,oromo,somali,sideman, and beja are the only exceptions. But outside somali all of those such variation like we do. It occurred to me that the only cushitic language we have a chance of finding inscriptions or anicent texts of is likley somali. Since these other cushitic lanaguges are more recent. Especially since most of them weren't pastoralists but settled farmers and the languages likely underwent rapid chance and were affected by other nearby language families.

 

[Idilinaa]

I forgot to respond to this earlier. As you can see, I referenced the German linguist Hans-Jurgen Sasse, who concluded that the Somali language is likely extremely old, and that Somalis must have spread across a vast landmass early on. Much of this continuity and linguistic cohesion, despite vast distances, can be attributed to our flat, open geography something that historically facilitated easy movement, trade, and cultural integration.

Said Shidad, who worked in comparative linguistics, supported this idea. In one study, he stated:

''Somali is not a lately evolved language. Rather, it is an archaic language with a lot of Proto Afroasiatic linguistic characteristics"

He built on the earlier work of M. Nuuh Ali, a historical linguist who rightly pointed out that Somali lacks any discernible substratum, which is key. That is, there’s no trace in the Somali language of a pre-Somali population with a separate language, as you’d expect if Somalis had migrated into a region already inhabited by a different ethnic group. Language usually retains these imprints, but Somali doesn’t, which is telling.

So your conclusion makes perfect sense, if archaeologists ever do uncover ancient inscriptions or texts from the region, they’re most likely to be in Somali. Given the depth, spread, and continuity of the language, especially compared to the relatively recent or localized nature of other Cushitic languages. It’s the strongest candidate we have for yielding early written evidence, much like the Arabic-Somali rock inscriptions and tomb engravings already found:

Can someone tell me where this is from? what is the source for this? It was shared in the thread post @Midas linked.

On the side of the picture the German translation says ''The inscription Stone of the Somali''

It actually does look like a legit writing script or some weird hieroglyphics.

 

[Midas]

I forgot to respond to this earlier. As you can see, I referenced the German linguist Hans-Jurgen Sasse, who concluded that the Somali language is likely extremely old, and that Somalis must have spread across a vast landmass early on. Much of this continuity and linguistic cohesion, despite vast distances, can be attributed to our flat, open geography something that historically facilitated easy movement, trade, and cultural integration.

Said Shidad, who worked in comparative linguistics, supported this idea. In one study, he stated:

''Somali is not a lately evolved language. Rather, it is an archaic language with a lot of Proto Afroasiatic linguistic characteristics"
View attachment 363821

He built on the earlier work of M. Nuuh Ali, a historical linguist who rightly pointed out that Somali lacks any discernible substratum, which is key. That is, there’s no trace in the Somali language of a pre-Somali population with a separate language, as you’d expect if Somalis had migrated into a region already inhabited by a different ethnic group. Language usually retains these imprints, but Somali doesn’t, which is telling.

So your conclusion makes perfect sense, if archaeologists ever do uncover ancient inscriptions or texts from the region, they’re most likely to be in Somali. Given the depth, spread, and continuity of the language, especially compared to the relatively recent or localized nature of other Cushitic languages. It’s the strongest candidate we have for yielding early written evidence, much like the Arabic-Somali rock inscriptions and tomb engravings already found:

If we take into account oromo also being just another one of the small cushtic tribes before the 1500s (albeit probably one of the larger ones) . Then it makes you wonder what connection somalis must have to the earliest polities if the largest chunk of cushites were somalis who even historically inhabited 60% of the land area of the horn.

Another thing that probably strengthens the case is that any preislamic script is either from sabaic which in that case most of the coast is inhabited by Somalis so the transmission woukd be mainly through them. Or the second is if it developed locally then it would make sense for it to be somalis who likley formed the largest cohesive civilization and inhabited a huge chunk of the land area.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I forgot to respond to this earlier. As you can see, I referenced the German linguist Hans-Jurgen Sasse, who concluded that the Somali language is likely extremely old, and that Somalis must have spread across a vast landmass early on. Much of this continuity and linguistic cohesion, despite vast distances, can be attributed to our flat, open geography something that historically facilitated easy movement, trade, and cultural integration.

Said Shidad, who worked in comparative linguistics, supported this idea. In one study, he stated:

''Somali is not a lately evolved language. Rather, it is an archaic language with a lot of Proto Afroasiatic linguistic characteristics"
View attachment 363821

He built on the earlier work of M. Nuuh Ali, a historical linguist who rightly pointed out that Somali lacks any discernible substratum, which is key. That is, there’s no trace in the Somali language of a pre-Somali population with a separate language, as you’d expect if Somalis had migrated into a region already inhabited by a different ethnic group. Language usually retains these imprints, but Somali doesn’t, which is telling.

So your conclusion makes perfect sense, if archaeologists ever do uncover ancient inscriptions or texts from the region, they’re most likely to be in Somali. Given the depth, spread, and continuity of the language, especially compared to the relatively recent or localized nature of other Cushitic languages. It’s the strongest candidate we have for yielding early written evidence, much like the Arabic-Somali rock inscriptions and tomb engravings already found:

That's weird considering Genetics and haplogroup nerds say we came from the Upper Nile area and invaded SL that was already populated by Puntites

 

[Idilinaa]

That's weird considering Genetics and haplogroup nerds say we came from the Upper Nile area and invaded SL that was already populated by Puntites

Our distant ancestors didn’t “invade” they migrated. The Nile Valley origin is based on both linguistic and archaeological evidence. The people who lived in historical Somalia before that were mostly hunter-gatherers. They died off because they failed to adapt, while our ancestors came with a superior agro-pastoral package.

The earliest reconstructions of Cushitic languages show they were fully pastoralist at first, and later started experimenting with grass collection and grain cultivation.

Globally, humans transitioned away from the hunter-gatherer lifestyle because they hunted a lot of the megafauna to extinction. The remaining animals were smaller, faster, harder to catch, and had less meat and fat. So it became more practical to domesticate animals and plants and settle in one place.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Our distant ancestors didn’t “invade” they migrated. The Nile Valley origin is based on both linguistic and archaeological evidence. The people who lived in historical Somalia before that were mostly hunter-gatherers. They died off because they failed to adapt, while our ancestors came with a superior agro-pastoral package.

The earliest reconstructions of Cushitic languages show they were fully pastoralist at first, and later started experimenting with grass collection and grain cultivation.

Globally, humans transitioned away from the hunter-gatherer lifestyle because they hunted a lot of the megafauna to extinction. The remaining animals were smaller, faster, harder to catch, and had less meat and fat. So it became more practical to domesticate animals and plants and settle in one place.

So did we mix with those hunter gatherers or did they just disappear

 

[Xareen]

It occurred to me that the only cushitic language we have a chance of finding inscriptions or anicent texts of is likley somali.

I agree. Fun fact, though: Cushitic languages were attested before Slavic languages were.

 

[Idilinaa]

So did we mix with those hunter gatherers or did they just disappear

They probably mixed with populations in Horn when they first migrated there but those who were there before them didn't just disappear in the physical sense they disappeared in the cultural sense. Their language and way of life went away living no trace except perhaps what can be seen archeological records like hunter gatherer tools etc.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I forgot to respond to this earlier. As you can see, I referenced the German linguist Hans-Jurgen Sasse, who concluded that the Somali language is likely extremely old, and that Somalis must have spread across a vast landmass early on. Much of this continuity and linguistic cohesion, despite vast distances, can be attributed to our flat, open geography something that historically facilitated easy movement, trade, and cultural integration.

Said Shidad, who worked in comparative linguistics, supported this idea. In one study, he stated:

''Somali is not a lately evolved language. Rather, it is an archaic language with a lot of Proto Afroasiatic linguistic characteristics"
View attachment 363821

He built on the earlier work of M. Nuuh Ali, a historical linguist who rightly pointed out that Somali lacks any discernible substratum, which is key. That is, there’s no trace in the Somali language of a pre-Somali population with a separate language, as you’d expect if Somalis had migrated into a region already inhabited by a different ethnic group. Language usually retains these imprints, but Somali doesn’t, which is telling.

So your conclusion makes perfect sense, if archaeologists ever do uncover ancient inscriptions or texts from the region, they’re most likely to be in Somali. Given the depth, spread, and continuity of the language, especially compared to the relatively recent or localized nature of other Cushitic languages. It’s the strongest candidate we have for yielding early written evidence, much like the Arabic-Somali rock inscriptions and tomb engravings already found:

We see within our lifetime how groups move in and out even under an ordered globe as this was common, to suggest one group remained for mellenias in the same spot is a bit of a stretch(climate change, disease, war) would play a role for moving on or the other explanation is existing populations incorporated new arrivals which is unlikely because Africa follows a lion code social system of tribal system like prides and no lion territory is ever just merged or blended or in unity with other lions because of some fake 19th century color based society as lions are identical color yet no harmony between them because it's not unique bro color it's weather condition only nothing to do with the brain matter in the skull which is neaderthals and denisovam in non African skulls. They have to hide their deficiency in creativity non African brains or play they god card we one ummah or we share a commons weather condition skin tone

 

[Cali Maxamed]

That's weird considering Genetics and haplogroup nerds say we came from the Upper Nile area and invaded SL that was already populated by Puntites

We came from Egypt and migrated south to the Horn of Africa, but those lands were uninhabited by anyone, and our ancestors are the Puntites. Then, the Kushites, Bantu, and Semites began to arrive. The Kushites headed to Eritrea, western Ethiopia, South Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda. The Bantu went to Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, the Congo, and so on. And the Semites went to Egypt, North Africa, Sudan, Eritrea, and northern and central Ethiopia.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

We came from Egypt and migrated south to the Horn of Africa, but those lands were uninhabited by anyone, and our ancestors are the Puntites. Then, the Kushites, Bantu, and Semites began to arrive. The Kushites headed to Eritrea, western Ethiopia, South Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda. The Bantu went to Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, the Congo, and so on. And the Semites went to Egypt, North Africa, Sudan, Eritrea, and northern and central Ethiopia.

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When did that happen ?

 

[Cali Maxamed]

When did that happen ?

Each group had its own time of migration, some ancient and some relatively recent.

 

[Midas]

You know Cali maxahmed your name just reminded me of a phrase I hear said quite often when Some somali person is trying to address somalis and give advice. Which is the phrase " somali Maxamed" ive always wonder where that kind of phrase even came from since it sounds like an abtirsi refrence when like someone says your full name.