Let's talk Federalism by reading The Federalist Papers.

[FBIsomalia]

When federal states are being aggressive and acting like independent countries how can the government do anything. The states themselves are not secure, they need to take part of the responsibility and work with the government.

From Federal states point of view, FGS is aggressive one. from sending SNA without consultation with Federal state like JL, Refuse Local High School certification in PL, Not sharing International AID to Somalia with SL,PL and JL, Etc.

If you remember before couple of months, Trump administration wants to use USA national force to stop demonstration "Black live matter" but states refuse.

FGS should sent SNA to most wanted state need security and its Hirshabelle. JL iyo GL with PL help both are doing good. SWS with FGS help doing good.

FGS act as powerful central government sent National army anywhere in Somalia without request came from Federal state and against Federal Dastuur, SNA should sent to Somalia borders not inside Federal states.

Federal State act as confederation states because there is no National army yet approved by All states of Somalia. And ALkabab still active fighting each one.

First we should all work to fight Alkabab before talking of other points.

 

[Eggman]

From Federal states point of view, FGS is aggressive one. from sending SNA without consultation with Federal state like JL, Refuse Local High School certification in PL, Not sharing International AID to Somalia with SL,PL and JL, Etc.

If you remember before couple of months, Trump administration wants to use USA national force to stop demonstration "Black live matter" but states refuse.

FGS should sent SNA to most wanted state need security and its Hirshabelle. JL iyo GL with PL help both are doing good. SWS with FGS help doing good.

FGS act as powerful central government sent National army anywhere in Somalia without request came from Federal state and against Federal Dastuur, Those army should sent to Somalia borders not inside Federal states.

Federal State act as confederation states because there is no National army yet approved by All states of Somalia. And ALkabab still active fighting each one.

First we should all work to fight Alkabab before talking of other points.

Not sharing aid is wrong and so is the school certificate thing, education should be up to states if they want.

JL is different because it is effectively a Kenyan buffer zone and we're fighting them in court for the sea. FGS don't need to send troops to PL or SL because it is already secure so there should be no federal troops there.

But other states are not secure and that's why we have AMISOM troops there. For AMISOM to leave we have to take over security. Either the states have to secure it for themselves like in PL and SL or the federal troops have to. What is the point of having an army if you have foreign troops (who can be hostile) securing your country.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Not sharing aid is wrong and so is the school certificate thing, education should be up to states if they want.

JL is different because it is effectively a Kenyan buffer zone and we're fighting them in court for the sea. FGS don't need to send troops to PL or SL because it is already secure so there should be no federal troops there.

But other states are not secure and that's why we have AMISOM troops there. For AMISOM to leave we have to take over security. Either the states have to secure it for themselves like in PL and SL or the federal troops have to. What is the point of having an army if you have foreign troops (who can be hostile) securing your country.

Good We agree on Federal state rights to control education and Developments to build states.

JL issue in my opinion its not Different, why? let us check on history.

JL was born during HSM. Somalia sea case was bring to court by HSM government. Did he sent any SNA army to Gedo?.

Let say Xarmaajo wants to secure JL from Kenya interfering and close borders.

In the map Somalia iyo Kenya borders are three states" Gedo, middle Jubba and south Jubba"

Where is SNA army from those two gobols?.

When FGS has the right to sent SNA army to JL, is when Kenya KDF enter Somalia borders without FGS acceptation and take Somali soil by force. Right now Kenya KDF part of Amisom and they located in two juba. Why FGS dont kick them out from there? arent both Juba Somali soil?

Im not here criticize Xarmaajo but those are facts.

Here we going back to our main points.

Those things would disappear if we finalize Somalia Federal Dastuur, secure country from terrorism and kick out Amisom.

 

[Ferrari]

The point is that federalism in Somalia isn't working. It never worked. Federal systems require a strong central government. In the US California or Massachusetts know their boundaries and what they can and can't do , on the other hand in Somalia federal states do whatever they want because there are no limits and the central government is weak.

In The U.S, President Biden doesn't sanction California or Massachussets, neither does send in the marines and army to fight with California's governor over control of part of California. Also, I don't remember president Trump hiring elite Soldiers from Canada or Mexico to abduct California's governor because he wasn't working with him on his reelection. Do you?

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

The point is that federalism in Somalia isn't working. It never worked. Federal systems require a strong central government. In the US California or Massachusetts know their boundaries and what they can and can't do , on the other hand in Somalia federal states do whatever they want because there are no limits and the central government is weak.

True, but where is the permanent dastur that shows separation of power between the federal gov and the states ? Hassan sheikh and farmaajo each wasted their terms not completing this important task second only to the eradication of Harakat kebab al shayadin. The problem is not federalism, its lack of a constitution and court systems to hold people accountable. And do you know why this hasn't been accomplished? Vast majority of people below mudug are anti federalist and just want to drag finishing the dastuur till federalism fails so they can get their centralism back.


But they will still ask the question, "why are the states acting like independent countries"

 

[reer]

No need for such extremes. Military dictatorship and stepping on people's necks is not only unjust but never going to work. Our current state is the result of that.

We never had real federalism with a strong constitution with clear responsibilities.

if it was a real ruthless dictatorship like iraq somalis would be too petrified to rebel. somali military rule was mild compared to the ba'ath rule of iraq. they quelled kurdish rebellions and shia uprisings and it took an invasion to depose the ba'ath.
somalis need something similar to that.

 

[Eggman]

Good We agree on Federal state rights to control education and Developments to build states.

JL issue in my opinion its not Different, why? let us check on history.

JL was born during HSM. Somalia sea case was bring to court by HSM government. Did he sent any SNA army to Gedo?.

Let say Xarmaajo wants to secure JL from Kenya interfering and close borders.

In the map Somalia iyo Kenya borders are three states" Gedo, middle Jubba and south Jubba"

Where is SNA army from those two gobols?.

When FGS has the right to sent SNA army to JL, is when Kenya KDF enter Somalia borders without FGS acceptation and take Somali soil by force. Right now Kenya KDF part of Amisom and they located in two juba. Why FGS dont kick them out from there? arent both Juba Somali soil?

Im not here criticize Xarmaajo but those are facts.

Here we going back to our main points.

Those things would disappear if we finalize Somalia Federal Dastuur, secure country from terrorism and kick out Amisom.

The SNA is in Gedo because Kenya is hosting and arming a criminal across the border from them who shelled the town and killed children just a few months ago.
How can you leave that part out.

We can't secure the country without sending troops to the troubled places. We can't kick out AMISOM with Kenya sitting there interfering and sending militia. They are looking after their larger interest with a proxy.

 

[Eggman]

if it was a real ruthless dictatorship like iraq somalis would be too petrified to rebel. somali military rule was mild compared to the ba'ath rule of iraq. they quelled kurdish rebellions and shia uprisings and it took an invasion to depose the ba'ath.
somalis need something similar to that.

Why would you want a ruthless dictatorship when you can have a free democratic country.

 

[reer]

Why would you want a ruthless dictatorship when you can have a free democratic country.

people are starving and you are making them busy with doorashooyin. messed up priority.

 

[Eggman]

people are starving and you are making them busy with doorashooyin. messed up priority.

Blame the political class. Look at the American founders and how mature and visionary they were. Washington could have become a king if he wanted. The problem is not democracy.

Compare what the revolutionaries did (it was a civil war since they were British subjects) to what our guys did after overthrowing Barre, that is where the difference lies.

 

[reer]

Blame the political class. Look at the American founders and how mature and visionary they were. Washington could have become a king if he wanted. The problem is not democracy.

Compare what the revolutionaries did (it was a civil war since they were British subjects) to what our guys did after overthrowing Barre, that is where the difference lies.

do not compare somalis to americans. we are more similar to iraqis and yemenis. you cannot apply american logic to geeljires thats straight up xoolonimo.

4 strikingly similar characteristics
1 respect strength - you cant ask them and have dialogue and expect them to submit
2 highly divided
3 tribal
4 border a regional power

for democracy to work if a politician wins 52% that means 48% will HAVE to tanaadul and submit to the will. that will not happen. do you really expect nearly half of somalis to submit to another half's will? pipe dream.

throughout history when a people are hard headed armed divided and resistant to authority they have not been united through begging and dialogue. they were united by the sword. because they speak the language of the sword not the language suits and ties

 

[Eggman]

do not compare somalis to americans. we are more similar to iraqis and yemenis. you cannot apply american logic to geeljires thats straight up xoolonimo.

4 strikingly similar characteristics
1 respect strength - you cant ask them and have dialogue and expect them to submit
2 highly divided
3 tribal
4 border a regional power

for democracy to work if a politician wins 52% that means 48% will HAVE to tanaadul and submit to the will. that will not happen. do you really expect nearly half of somalis to submit to another half's will? pipe dream.

throughout history when a people are hard headed armed divided and resistant to authority they have not been united through begging and dialogue. they were united by the sword. because they speak the language of the sword not the language suits and ties

No one is going to submit to that even Barre with all his might couldn't. There is no one close to that. What the last 30 years have shown is everyone is pretty much evenly matched and now we're stuck in war of attrition. No one can unilaterally impose their will on others.

It is better to get on with the program and build on what we have. We are never going back to a dictatorship. The best thing to do is to educate people on their rights and responsibilities.

 

[reer]

No one is going to submit to that even Barre with all his might couldn't. There is no one close to that. What the last 30 years have shown is everyone is pretty much evenly matched and now we're stuck in war of attrition. No one can unilaterally impose their will on others.

It is better to get on with the program and build on what we have. We are never going back to a dictatorship. The best thing to do is to educate people on their rights and responsibilities.

no. siad barre waited until opposition became a problem. saddam hussein took out opposition before they became a real threat.
somalia needs a generational savior. i see little to no alternative.

 

[BigBreak]

When has a democratic country ever descend into anarchy/civil war? Only dictatorships cause such collapse and bloodshed

 

[Eggman]

no. siad barre waited until opposition became a problem. saddam hussein took out opposition before they became a real threat.
somalia needs a generational savior. i see little to no alternative.

Sadam gassed the Kurds. What remains of him today, what remains of Iraq. What remains of Gaddafi, who got dragged through the streets and killed by having a knife shoved up his ass. What remains of Libya today. What remains of Syria today.

A saviour complex is very destructive because people translate their personal strength as saving the country and their weakness as subversion to the state so as things get bad they become paranoid and tyrannical. North Korea is the logical conclusion of this mentality. And that is only kept together because of China.

 

[reer]

Sadam gassed the Kurds. What remains of him today, what remains of Iraq. What remains of Gaddafi, who got dragged through the streets and killed by having a knife shoved up his ass. What remains of Libya today. What remains of Syria today.

A saviour complex is very destructive because people translate their personal strength as saving the country and their weakness as subversion to the state so as things get bad they become paranoid and tyrannical. North Korea is the logical conclusion of this mentality. And that is only kept together because of China.

saddam was deposed by a foreign invasion not rebellions. he would have held on to power and iraq would be intact till atleast the arab spring.

 

[Eggman]

saddam was deposed by a foreign invasion not rebellions. he would have held on to power and iraq would be intact till atleast the arab spring.

That is my point, they tend to collapse into violent civil war. These systems are even worse for Muslims who tend to be anti authoritarian and even worse when combine that with nomadic people who love freedom and a high honor culture. It guaranteed to fail into another civil war.