Islam vs western values.

[Cazzo]

Damn! you took the bait

What bait, sxb? All I see here is the peculiar romanticization and the rose-tinted perspective of Judeo-Christian values, like they're incoherently inconsistent and incompatible with the rest of world's.

 

[Bile Huruse]

What bait, sxb? All I see here is the peculiar romanticization and rose-tinted perspective of Judeo-Christian values, like they're incoherently inconsistent and incompatible with the rest of world's.

I'm talking about the guy you quoted. Initially I was a bit triggered but then thought he might just be looking for reaction.

 

[Kratos]

Wallahi, you've been brainwashed :siilaanyolaugh:None of those trigger words you've just listed right now are entirely exclusive to the Western world. Also, I love how capitalism and universal human rights are listed like they're on the same level Companies tryna make quick cash are totally in line with our humanitarian ideals; those sweatshops in Vietnam and Cambodia definitely don't exist! Good-ole 'Murica.

What bait, sxb? All I see here is the peculiar romanticization and the rose-tinted perspective of Judeo-Christian values, like they're incoherently inconsistent and incompatible with the rest of world's.

They aren't exclusive to the Western world today but that's because they were spread around the world by the U.S and it's allies. None of what I listed are Judeo-Christian values. Christianity in Europe before the enlightenment suppressed freedom of speech and allowed for slavery among other atrocities. They are actually antithetical to Christianity, as well as Islam.

The universal concept of human rights, Capitalism and the freedom of religious expression that exists in the West are why most refugees (including our parents) came here in the first place. Capitalism is the reason why some of them who worked hard could rise up the ranks from a poor refugee to a wealthy business owner or from a poor refugee to a US Congresswoman. It isn't a perfect system (nothing is) but it is the best in the word at the moment.

 

[Bile Huruse]

They aren't exclusive to the Western world today but that's because they were spread around the world by the U.S and it's allies. None of what I listed are Judeo-Christian values. Christianity in Europe before suppressed freedom of speech and allowed for slavery among other atrocities. They are actually antithetical to Christianity, as well as Islam.

The universal concept of human rights, Capitalism and the freedom of religious expression that exists in the West are why most refugees (including our parents) came here in the first place. Capitalism is the reason why some of them who worked hard could rise up the ranks from a poor refugee to a wealthy business owner or from a poor refugee to a US Congresswoman. It isn't a perfect system (nothing is) but it is the best in the word at the moment.

All these rights you mentioned have been fought for by minorities. Dont make it seem like they were given willingly. For the record, freedom of religion isnt some thing new and have existed prior to the european enlightenment.

 

[Omar del Sur]

The universal concept of human rights, Capitalism and the freedom of religious expression that exists in the West are why most refugees (including our parents) came here in the first place. Capitalism is the reason why some of them who worked hard could rise up the ranks from a poor refugee to a wealthy business owner or from a poor refugee to a US Congresswoman. It isn't a perfect system (nothing is) but it is the best in the word at the moment.

I get tired of this narrative.

People come here because you can make a bunch of money.

 

[Omar del Sur]

All these rights you mentioned have been fought for by minorities. Dont make it seem like they were given willingly. For the record, freedom of religion isnt some thing new and have existed prior to the european enlightenment.

The so-called "Enlightenment" has a role in the degeneracy of today. It helped set the stage. The "Enlightenment" was a bad thing.

 

[Cazzo]

The so-called "Enlightenment" has a role in the degeneracy of today. It helped set the stage. The "Enlightenment" was a bad thing.

Meh. It helped break the Catholic Church's tight grip on the world of science--which judging by all the rapid scientific expanisons made in the last few centuries, is definitely a positive.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Meh. It helped break the Catholic Church's tight grip on the world of science--which judging by all the rapid scientific expanisons made in the last few centuries, is definitely a positive.

Technology that helped Europe colonize everyone?

Technology that is making society worse and is dehumanizing?

I think people were a lot happier before technology became so dominant.

 

[Cornelius]

Technology that helped Europe colonize everyone?

Technology that is making society worse and is dehumanizing?

I think people were a lot happier before technology became so dominant.

Let me guess you live in the West right ?

 

[Omar del Sur]

Let me guess you live in the West right ?

Yes

 

[Cornelius]

Yes

Lol I knew it, enjoy your freedom of speech and technolgy that you are using right now that was created in the West, even though you seem to dislike it.Kind of curious why you don't move to a Muslim country and live a Amishesque life.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Lol I knew it, enjoy your freedom of speech and technolgy that you are using right now that was created in the West, even though you seem to dislike it.Kind of curious why you don't move to a Muslim country and live a Amishesque life.

Thinking critically about the role of technology in society doesn't imply one has to be Amish.

 

[Cornelius]

Thinking critically about the role of technology in society doesn't imply one has to be Amish.

The question i asked at the end of the post was rhetorical.

 

[Omar del Sur]

The question i asked at the end of the post was rhetorical.

Okay so what is the substance?

Don't question the role of technology in society? Don't question?

 

[Cornelius]

Okay so what is the substance?

Don't question the role of technology in society? Don't question?

It's simple you seem to dislike everything about the West, the laws the system of governance, the technology they produce as you stated, Secularism and the list goes on ad infinitum, so why stay and live in a place you dislike so much, there is no need to answer that.

As for questioning no one said you can't question things. By the way critical thinking ? is that what you think you have been doing all these times, you need to research what the meaning of critical thinking really means, i'm of for now have a good night.

 

[Kratos]

All these rights you mentioned have been fought for by minorities. Dont make it seem like they were given willingly. For the record, freedom of religion isnt some thing new and have existed prior to the european enlightenment.

No, not all of them. The only thing that I can think of that minorities fought for is to have the same rights as everyone else in their specific society. They have furthered the development of universal human rights, that's true, but they don't have anything to do with the rest of what I mentioned. Also I said freedom of religious "expression". Most nations/empires had some sort of blasphemy laws. If you criticised the state religion (whether Islam or Christianity) you were prosecutable. Since religious expression encompasses not just your religious beliefs but also your views on religions, whether general or specific, you can hardly call it free expression.

I get tired of this narrative.

People come here because you can make a bunch of money.

No that isn't the only reason. There are loads of countries where people can make money. Muslim countries too. Yet the majority of refugees want to come to the West even though they know beforehand that living here can clash with their religious views. The Western world, while obviously not perfect, is home to the most egalitarian societies in the world right now. There are some well run countries in East Asia with a high standard of living like Japan and Singapore but they are not welcoming to refugees like the West is (or was)

 

[Cazzo]

Technology that helped Europe colonize everyone?

Technology that is making society worse and is dehumanizing?

I think people were a lot happier before technology became so dominant.

Lol, technology that devasted the world in both WWI and WWII? Of course I know that technological advancements has had some negative contributions, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. I would be utterly naive to history claim otherwise. But technology has brought great things, walaal, and you're ignorant if you claim otherwise.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Lol, technology that devasted the world in both WWI and WWII? Of course I know that technological advancements has had some negative contributions, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. I would be utterly naive to history claim otherwise. But technology has brought great things, walaal, and you're ignorant if you claim otherwise.

No, I'm not ignorant.

Having done some research on the topic and having studied about it doesn't mean I'm ignorant

I doubt anyone who has attacked me for my stance on technology has even read this book, much less owns a copy.

I doubt they've even read this one

Honestly, if the pro-technology crowd was really honest, they would welcome open discussion of the pros and cons of technology. But instead, they want to shut down any open examination of the issue- rather than allow for both sides to be explored.

And even though I've studied the issue and researched it, and even though I have a lot to say about technology- I'm not a debater and I'm especially not interested in debating this. This is a peripheral issue.

Insha'Allah, I will post the Ellul book and another book on technology so those who are actually interested in knowledge can examine my side for themselves. People are attacking my side without having actually studied it. I don't intend on debating this. If people want to try to look smart- they can have the last word here. I don't care if I look smart or not. I want to be smart, I don't care about looking smart.

People who are actually interested in research and knowledge can check the books thread insha'Allah. I doubt any of the people attacking me have even heard of Ellul, much less have actually researched the issue. And no one who has really studied this can say that anyone who hasn't heard of or read Ellul on the issue has really studied this- Ellul's analysis is basic to the discussion. I think I'm the only one here who has actually studied this.