Is Xawaash seasoning somali originally or is it Yemeni?

[Shimbiris]

It is not semantics bro, just stating the obvious Wallahi that both sources relate to the same trip except that his earlier letter goes into more detail unlike his later address in your web source.

Anyway, to each his own bro. Salam.

It is semantics in that you already lost the main argument and just won't admit it and act as though we are standing on equal ground and should just agree to disagree. You claimed from the outset since our DMs that Koonfur had no native Somali vessels and sailors. I showed you a source that clearly disproves this in that Mauritius one. It's over, saaxiib. Whether or not our Kirk quotes are the same even though they're dated, worded and speak of the environment completely differently and for some reason in mine he decides to say the boats are "native" like the grain is indeed semantics in respect to the main argument being had here.

You're also clearly reaching with the Reer Maanyo who are Gibil-Madow... the main point is plainly moot. And you still do not concede how unsightly you're being toward your kin and basically gassing up Arabs who have literally the same customs and culture in this case. But it's all good. Anyone onlooking will know the truth of it, I'm sure. All the best and I once again invite you to debunk whatever you believe you can debunk in the Dhow thread.

Salam!

 

[Hamzza]

There is no need for mental gymnastics as it is pretty evident that they influenced us just like how Somali Xalwad is a borrowing from the Middle Eastern Xalwa, and Baasto is from Italian Pasta.

Xitaa 'Bariis' is a loanword. Being influenced by more advanced cultures is not something to be ashamed.

 

[anonimo]

It is semantics in that you already lost the main argument and just won't admit it and act as though we are standing on equal ground and should just agree to disagree. You claimed from the outset since our DMs that Koonfur had no native Somali vessels and sailors. I showed you a source that clearly disproves this in that Mauritius one. It's over, saaxiib. Whether or not our Kirk quotes are the same even though they're dated, worded and speak of the environment completely differently and for some reason in mine he decides to say the boats are "native" like the grain is indeed semantics in respect to the main argument being had here.

You're also clearly reaching with the Reer Maanyo who are Gibil-Madow... the main point is plainly moot. And you still do not concede how unsightly you're being toward your kin and basically gassing up Arabs who have literally the same customs and culture in this case. But it's all good. Anyone onlooking will know the truth of it, I'm sure. All the best and I once again invite you to debunk whatever you believe you can debunk in the Dhow thread.

Salam!

I thought we agreed to conduct ourselves with civility? Why the unwarranted attack? Just because I highlighted the fact that those who live off the sea were outside Somali mainstream society? What has my factual statement got to do with Arabs, and how is it even gassing their society when I have not even compared them to us in my previous posts relating to Kirk? Spare me your emotional outbursts, you did the same thing in the DM hence why things turned ugly.

As for the Kirk source, any person capable of critical reading will observe that they relate to the same trip, the only difference being one letter goes into more detail than the other. It is your prerogative not to accept such a glaring fact so but let us leave it to the readers to decide for themselves which one of us is wilfully ignorant.

As for the other evidence you presented in the DM, did I not acknowledge that I was mistaken in assuming it was necessarily Gibil Cads who were sailors because South Somalis considered those who earned their living from the sea Jaaji? You actually accepted my reformed stance when I stated that if any 'Somalis' had anything to do with, it was not mainstream Somali clans. Moreover, you used that Banadiri blog as your source for who the Reer Manyo are yet you also dismiss that it clearly states in there that the biggest clan and the third biggest are of Arab origin. It is illogical to present a source as evidence then do a 180 when it backfires on you.

Thanks for invite but I have already seen enough to realise you are in the business of historical nationalism hence why I ain't buying what you are selling. For instance, you are claiming that Marka was historically equally a Somali town in your dhow thread but @Hamzza and @SuldaanCali already proved this to be incorrect in the following thread:

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/gibil-cad-historical-superiority-in-benaadir.130392/page-3

 

[Hamzza]

Thanks for invite but I have already seen enough to realise you are in the business of historical nationalism hence why I ain't buying what you are selling. For instance, you are claiming that Marka was historically equally a Somali town in your dhow thread but @Hamzza and @SuldaanCali already proved this to be incorrect in the following thread:


https://www.somalispot.com/threads/gibil-cad-historical-superiority-in-benaadir.130392/page-3

I mistakenly mixed up a lot of things in that thread. @Shimbiris was right, Somali groups were slightly more numerous in Marka, than Cadcad groups, at the turn of the 20th century.

 

[anonimo]

I mistakenly mixed up a lot of things in that thread. @Shimbiris was right, Somali groups were slightly more numerous in Marka, than Cadcad groups, at the turn of the 20th century.

The majority of non-Cadcad are the heterogeneous Reer Maanyo hence when they are taken out of the equation or divided, it was not historically an equally Somali town.

 

[Hamzza]

The majority of non-Cadcad are the heterogeneous Reer Maanyo hence when they are taken out of the equation or divided, it was not historically an equally Somali town.

Yeah, I would say Reer Maanyo are like 20-30% Somali, with the rest being Arab and Bantu. We wrongly, assumed them to be 100% Somali.

 

[anonimo]

Yeah, I would say Reer Maanyo are like 20-30% Somali, with the rest being Arab and Bantu. We wrongly, assumed them to be 100% Somali.
View attachment 239021View attachment 239022

Where did you find this source bro? The Arab Reer Maanyo bred with Bantus too?

If you revisit the 19th century Italian census and add up the numbers, it is even more damning regarding the demographics of Marka when the Reer Maanyo are excluded.

 

[Hamzza]

Where did you find this source bro? The Arab Reer Maanyo bred with Bantus too?

If you revisit the 20th century Italian census and add up the numbers, it is even more damning regarding the demographics of Marka when the Reer Maanyo are excluded.

Reer Maanyo is a confederation of Clans from different ethnicities, Somalis, Arabs and even Freedman(who are obviously of Bantu origin), only their profession unites them.

The source is Sharif Aydurus's book: Baqhyatul Amal fī Tārīkh Al Sūmāl. Arabs didn't mix with madows, rather some bantus joined the Reer Maanyo confederation.

 

[anonimo]

Reer Maanyo is a confederation of Clans from different ethnicities, Somalis, Arabs and even Freedman(who are obviously of Bantu origin), only their profession unites them.

The source is Sharif Aydurus's book: Baqhyatul Amal fī Tārīkh Al Sūmāl.
Arabs didn't mix with the madows, rather some bantus joined the Reer Maanyo confederation.

Thanks bro. Much appreciated.

What does 'Ba' signify among Yemeni tribes such as that found in the Reer Maanyo Ba Mukhtar and the 19th century Ba Umar Yemeni settlers of Barawe who were repatriated to Yemen after the Civil War?

 

[Hamzza]

Thanks bro. Much appreciated.

What does 'Ba' signify among Yemeni tribes such as that found in the Reer Maanyo Ba Mukhtar and the 19th century Ba Umar Yemeni settlers of Barawe who were repatriated to Yemen after the Civil War?

It's Hadhramaut thing. all Hadrami clans have this 'Ba' in front of their names.

 

[Hamzza]

Thanks bro. Much appreciated.

What does 'Ba' signify among Yemeni tribes such as that found in the Reer Maanyo Ba Mukhtar and the 19th century Ba Umar Yemeni settlers of Barawe who were repatriated to Yemen after the Civil War?

Look at this Yemeni sakhraan, he is saying Biden is from Yemen, Hadhramawt because his name starts with 'B'.

 

[anonimo]

Look at this Yemeni sakhraan, he is saying Biden is from Yemen, Hadhramawt because his name starts with 'B'.

Alf Alf Mabrouk Ya Abnal Hadhramaut kulaha.

He does have a point about Hadhramis being found in Indonesia and Malaysia as I have seen a T-Y16897 Bin Mahfoudh Indonesian of Hadhrami descent on FTDNA.


آل بن محفوظ - أندونيسيا - الأصل من حضرموت

FamilyTreeDNA - T - The Y-DNA Haplogroup T (former K2) Project

These guys spread the Shafici Madhab to South India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Malaysia, and assimilated into these host societies.

 

[EDsomali]

As far as I'm aware xawaash just means spice/seasoning in Somali , but the ultimate origin of the word is Yemen.

Like most things , if something is a commonality between both cultures . 99% of the time it originated in Yemen.

 

[Lebron James]

5 pages over spices

 

[Shimbiris]

I thought we agreed to conduct ourselves with civility? Why the unwarranted attack?

What? I did not attack you. I simply pointed out that your main point is completely moot and that you kept glossing over that fact like 3 times in a row at least which is true. Did I call you names or insult you in some way? It's text, saaxiib. You don't know what my voice sounded like or my face looked like. Don't ascribe anything more than what you plainly see.

What has my factual statement got to do with Arabs, and how is it even gassing their society when I have not even compared them to us in my previous posts relating to Kirk? Spare me your emotional outbursts, you did the same thing in the DM hence why things turned ugly.

Saaxiib, the only one getting emotional is the person who wrote a small essay in response to two paragraphs, clearly. You do gas up Arabs and definitely did a lot in our DMs and yus Somalis in comparison, sometimes quite insultingly, even though the two groups have the same customs in these respects and then you ignore this fact whenever it is presented to you because I guess it's inconvenient for your world-view. It's plain to see and is distasteful and frankly weird. Simple as. That's all I was saying. No anger toward you. If you see no issue with your strange self-hatred vibes then that is up to you. It was not meant as an insult but simply stating what I see.

As for the Kirk source, any person capable of critical reading will observe that they relate to the same trip, the only difference being one letter goes into more detail than the other. It is your prerogative not to accept such a glaring fact so but let us leave it to the readers to decide for themselves which one of us is wilfully ignorant.

I said more than once that I am willing to accept you are correct here. But again, how does it refute the main argument? The whole reason we went down the Kirk rabbit-hole is because you claimed ethnic Somalis did not serve as sailors in Koonfur unlike in the North and that point is clearly disproven by a source from a decade earlier. Does it even matter? It is truly semantics to keep obsessing over this point when your main argument is dead in the water.

As for the other evidence you presented in the DM, did I not acknowledge that I was mistaken in assuming it was necessarily Gibil Cads who were sailors because South Somalis considered those who earned their living from the sea Jaaji? You actually accepted my reformed stance when I stated that if any 'Somalis' had anything to do with, it was not mainstream Somali clans. Moreover, you used that Banadiri blog as your source for who the Reer Manyo are yet you also dismiss that it clearly states in there that the biggest clan and the third biggest are of Arab origin. It is illogical to present a source as evidence then do a 180 when it backfires on you.

This just seems like reworking your argument so that you're not wrong and is nonsensical. "Oh, okay. Yeah, Somalis were involved in the sailing clear but they were not mainstream Somali clans." just arguing for arguing's sake, akhi. And it's tiring. And again, that source does not say they are Cadcads but only that they claim Arab origins (genealogical roots). If you read anything on other Gibil Madow groups, or are personally familiar with them, this is common. Many will actually claim Arab genealogical roots the exact same way your mainstream tribe or mine will but it is still maintained and clear that they are Gibil-Madow and not at all Cadcad. It has always been known that the Reer Maanyo are Gibil-Madow and not Cadcad and reer Banaadir took these divisions very seriously to the point of not eating around each other based on the divide as I've shown before in our DMs. Khalas with this tangent, saaxiib.

Thanks for invite but I have already seen enough to realise you are in the business of historical nationalism hence why I ain't buying what you are selling. For instance, you are claiming that Marka was historically equally a Somali town in your dhow thread but @Hamzza and @SuldaanCali already proved this to be incorrect in the following thread:

I said comparable, not equal and I proved my point in the thread and the parties in that thread, at least Hamzza, ended up agreeing. But again, please go into the thread and try to debunk whatever you want and PLEASE, I'm begging you, prove your theories that sailing suddenly started around the mid 1800s and didn't really exist among Somalis nor was a widespread practice before that. Please. Or continue to insult me and attack my character like that proves your nonsense. Doesn't affect me.

I mistakenly mixed up a lot of things in that thread. @Shimbiris was right, Somali groups were slightly more numerous in Marka, than Cadcad groups, at the turn of the 20th century.

I never argued this, walaal. I actually got the impression that the two groups were nearly equal with Cadcads being slightly more numerous and Somalis being the source of the ruling tribe which certainly seems the case in those Italian censes in contrast to Xamar and Baraawe where the Gibil-Madows and Tunnis were much more numerous.

Yeah, I would say Reer Maanyo are like 20-30% Somali, with the rest being Arab and Bantu. We wrongly, assumed them to be 100% Somali.
View attachment 239021View attachment 239022

I know of this picture. It's extremely recent and is of two random fishermen in Koonfur that people have just attributed as "Reer Maanyo". People down south refer to a lot of folks who practice fishing in the south, now often Bantus as they've slowly come to the cities more and more, as "Reer Maanyo" as the name is basically synonymous with fishing at this point. This is, as far as I know, different from the actual proper, historical reer Banaadir tribe who look like this:

That is a top elder and political representative of theirs named Haji Kamal Maki Aweys. Every historical image I've seen of these guys just looks Somali, akhi. And there's no mention of Bantus in their ranks historically. Practically all the Bantus in Xamar a century ago were women being house servants or weavers, as far as I remember. No one was going to allow them into an actual tribe and give them proper rights. Even the Italians... do you really think they'd have seen that a significant tribe of Marko was partly Bantu or Cadcad and then list them the exact same way they do other Gibil-Madow Somali tribes and not point out the difference in the at least paragraph long description of the tribe? You know full well they would have made the distinction. They didn't because there wasn't one.

Yeah, I would say Reer Maanyo are like 20-30% Somali, with the rest being Arab and Bantu. We wrongly, assumed them to be 100% Somali.
View attachment 239021

Also, this is all that source says:

الرابطة الخامسة (رير مانيو)

التي يرجع في نسبها الى بامختاروقرىٰ وشاوش بن علي وقباىل أخرىٰ من قباىل الصومال وغير ذلك.

وهم قباىل شتىٰ مختلتون جمعهم تلك الحرفة أي الملاحة وهي رابتهم. ثم إن هذه القباىل المذكورة لهم وزعماء ، وعماء، وعلماء ومشائخ

The Fifth Group (Reer Manyo)

Whose lineage is traced back to Mukhtar, Qura, Shaush bin Ali, and other Somali tribes, and so on.

They are various, disordered tribes, brought together by this craft, i.e. navigation, which is their salary. Moreover, these tribes mentioned have leaders, ulema, scholars and sheikhs

Anonimo, I'm sure you can read Arabic as a Somali who was obviously raised Muslim but not understand it, assume? Cos it's strange that you accepted this as a source that they're part Bantu and Cadcad.

5 pages over spices

Nah, mostly me and Anonimo settling an old score like a couple of habaro who've been col for quite some time now.

 

[Hamzza]

Anonimo, I'm sure you can read Arabic as a Somali who was obviously raised Muslim but not understand it, assume? Cos it's strange that you accepted this as a source that they're part Bantu and Cadcad.

I didn't cite this as a source of them being Bantu.
Ba Muqtar Qura and Shaush are clearly Arabs. He didn't name the Somali clans inside Reer Maanyo, just said other clans who are Somalis.

 

[Angelina]

What is this nonsense? @anonimo @Hamzaa @Shimbiris. I clicked on the link you lot were looking and fighting over.

Why would Sheikhal be classified as Gibil Caad when they’re ethnic Somalis you’ll even find in Ethiopia?

 

[Hamzza]

What is this nonsense? @anonimo @Hamzaa @Shimbiris. I clicked on the link you lot were looking and fighting over.

View attachment 239048

Why would Sheikhal be classified as Gibil Caad when they’re ethnic Somalis you’ll even find in Ethiopia?

Sheekhaal is a collection heterogeneous clans, united only by their profession of being Wadaads. Those in Somal Galbeed and Somalia like Aw Qutb, Loobage... are clearly Somalis, however the Sheekhaal of Benaadir, Gendershe and Jaziira, are Gibil cad originally.

 

[Angelina]

Sheekhaal is a heterogeneous clan, united by their profession of being Wadaads. Those in Somal Galbeed and Somalia like Aw Qutb, Loobage... are clearly Somalis, however the Sheekhaal of Benaadir, Gendershe and Jaziira, are Gibil cad originally.

Nah, I know sheikhaal banaadiris and they are are typical Somalis. By the time the author was writing the book, Sheikhaals
clearly already assimilated and had normal Somali features as this book was written at the end of the 20th century (if Sheikhal are even of Arab ancestry). Anyone that knows anything about Qabil wouldn’t associate Sheikhaals who are ethnic Somalis with cadcads.

Also, most ethnic Somalis claim Arab origin and Sheikhals are no different to Darods in that manner. We need to see the DNA results of an actual Sheikhal.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Thanks bro. Much appreciated.

What does 'Ba' signify among Yemeni tribes such as that found in the Reer Maanyo Ba Mukhtar and the 19th century Ba Umar Yemeni settlers of Barawe who were repatriated to Yemen after the Civil War?

Ba means father it similar to how Maghrebi use Bou but unlike Hadhraamis they don’t use it for the naming of Arab tribes