Is The Adal Sultan Abu Bakr Ibn Muhammad A Somali Or A Harari

[killerxsmoke]

If he is harari then how the hell is Adal a somali sultanate? I know that most of his soilders were made up of somalis but I dont know if that alone can be enough proof that he is somali. Is there a source that says that he is somali?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Muhammad

 

[ina-cilmi]

the ruler of a place does not decide what type of sultanate or kingdom it is. otherwise the country of the netherlands would be a german country as the royal house has german roots.

Regardless, there was no idea of a nation state back in those days. Just like how you cant call the roman empire an italian empire, even though rome is situated in italy, in the same way calling adal a (completely) somali sultanate would be wrong even though most of its army and perhaps even citizens were somali.

Also, idk about trusting wikipedia, its known that ethiopian hotep revisionists keep editing it to fit their narratives and erase somali history

 

[Xeda]

I don’t know much about adal, but I wouldn’t take Wikipedia as a source.

 

[Three Moons]

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[killerxsmoke]

the ruler of a place does not decide what type of sultanate or kingdom it is. otherwise the country of the netherlands would be a german country as the royal house has german roots.

Regardless, there was no idea of a nation state back in those days. Just like how you cant call the roman empire an italian empire, even though rome is situated in italy, in the same way calling adal a (completely) somali sultanate would be wrong even though most of its army and perhaps even citizens were somali.

Also, idk about trusting wikipedia, its known that ethiopian hotep revisionists keep editing it to fit their narratives and erase somali history

I pressed the refrence in which it is said that he is harari and what I found was secondary source written that he is harari

 

[Step a side]

If he is harari then how the hell is Adal a somali sultanate? I know that most of his soilders were made up of somalis but I dont know if that alone can be enough proof that he is somali. Is there a source that says that he is somali?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Muhammad
View attachment 324238

Sultan Abu Bakr ibn Muhamed was from the line of Walashma. He ruled Harar from Zeila after Abun ibn Adash and before Gurey.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

If he is harari then how the hell is Adal a somali sultanate? I know that most of his soilders were made up of somalis but I dont know if that alone can be enough proof that he is somali. Is there a source that says that he is somali?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Muhammad
View attachment 324238

He isn’t Harari, that term/identity didn’t even exist back then and neither did their “ethnicity”.

It’d be more accurate to refer to him as an Adalite, plus he descends from the Somali royal house of Walashma.

 

[Yami]

Sultan Abu Bakr ibn Muhamed was from the line of Walashma. He ruled Harar from Zeila after Abun ibn Adash and before Gurey.

View attachment 324245

These don't look like Somali names. Badlay, Waene, Gassa... Maybe Harlas really were Ethio-Semitic speakers?

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

These don't look like Somali names. Badlay, Waene, Gassa... Maybe Harlas really were Ethio-Semitic speakers?

the Marexan clan leader at the time was literally had the name Goita Tedros.

 

[Laser]

These don't look like Somali names. Badlay, Waene, Gassa... Maybe Harlas really were Ethio-Semitic speakers?

Where did you get waene from? Badlay got a somali etymology.

 

[Step a side]

These don't look like Somali names. Badlay, Waene, Gassa... Maybe Harlas really were Ethio-Semitic speakers?

Harar was a Somali capital.

Below are all rulers of Harar partly under Adal at times and partly an independent emirate.

Main families are Sheikh Abaadir Sheikhaal, Walashma, Karanle and finally the Dawuud dynasty but you did have few other families like the Habeshi slave dynasty of the noble Sultan Uthman family.

 

[Yami]

the Marexan clan leader at the time was literally had the name Goita Tedros.

You're right I completely forgot about that

Where did you get waene from? Badlay got a somali etymology.

I meant Wasene I missed the S key mb also can you explain the etymology behind Badlay I'm intrigued

Harar was a Somali capital.

View attachment 325547


Below are all rulers of Harar partly under Adal at times and partly an independent emirate.

Main families are Sheikh Abaadir Sheikhaal, Walashma, Karanle and finally the Dawuud dynasty but you did have few other families like the Habeshi slave dynasty of the noble Sultan Uthman family.



View attachment 325548



View attachment 325549



View attachment 325550

Some of the earlier dynasty had ajnabi sounding names like Maya Lama lakiin the later ones I can tell had to have been Somalis but like @tyrannicalmanager mentioned some of our old heads had foreign names.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Where did you get waene from? Badlay got a somali etymology.

What is the Somali etymology of Badlay?

 

[Laser]

also can you explain the etymology behind Badlay I'm intrigued
What is the Somali etymology of Badlay?

@daljirkadahsoon
First of all i should clarify that sultan's name wasn't badlay but Shihab al din ahmed, badlay acted as his nickname.

The somali etymology would be:
Baad-laay
Baad meaning the money the bandits take in af somali
Laay meaning their slayer so:
Slayer of bandits (He was known for being righteous so makes sense).
The xabashis had their own nickname for him too which was awre meaning snake, probably linked to him because he used snakes as a symbol.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

@daljirkadahsoon
First of all i should clarify that sultan's name wasn't badlay but Shihab al din ahmed, badlay acted as his nickname.
View attachment 325565
The somali etymology would be:
Baad-laay
Baad meaning the money the bandits take in af somali
Laay meaning their slayer so:
Slayer of bandits (He was known for being righteous so makes sense).
The xabashis had their own nickname for him too which was awre meaning snake, probably linked to him because he used snakes as a symbol.
View attachment 325567

Thank you walaal in hindsight it was obvious I thought it was 'Baad' but I didn't see the 'Laay' lol

Do you have etymologies for any of the other names

Oh is he the one with the umbrella decorated with the winged serpents?

 

[oogabooga]

the Marexan clan leader at the time was literally had the name Goita Tedros.

Marehan itself is an Ethio-Semitic word. Just because they have an Ethio-Semitic name it doesn’t mean they were, it just means they interacted with them.

Maraxa means “to captivate (figuratively), to get loot” in the Harari language.

 

[oogabooga]

@daljirkadahsoon
First of all i should clarify that sultan's name wasn't badlay but Shihab al din ahmed, badlay acted as his nickname.
View attachment 325565
The somali etymology would be:
Baad-laay
Baad meaning the money the bandits take in af somali
Laay meaning their slayer so:
Slayer of bandits (He was known for being righteous so makes sense).
The xabashis had their own nickname for him too which was awre meaning snake, probably linked to him because he used snakes as a symbol.
View attachment 325567

You know in the Harari language Badlay literally means “upper land/country.” It’s more befitting for him to be called Sultan Badlay because he literally conquered the Ethiopian highland.

In the figurative sense, it means he is above all the lands (aka he dominates).

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Marehan itself is an Ethio-Semitic word. Just because they have an Ethio-Semitic name it doesn’t mean they were, it just means they interacted with them.

Maraxa means “to captivate (figuratively), to get loot” in the Harari language.

I wasn't aware this word exists in Harari but there is also an etymology for it in the Somali language.

Some have proposed it means 'one who walks on sweet smelling flowers' in reference to the myrrth and other aromatic resins that they used to have in their territory.

Another theory that exists is that it refers to them as unbeatable conquerors who defeated large numbers i.e Mare-Xaan (Xaan being an uncountable number)

 

[oogabooga]

I wasn't aware this word exists in Harari but there is also an etymology for it in the Somali language.

Some have proposed it means 'one who walks on sweet smelling flowers' in reference to the myrrth and other aromatic resins that they used to have in their territory.

Another theory that exists is that it refers to them as unbeatable conquerors who defeated large numbers i.e Mare-Xaan (Xaan being an uncountable number)

The Somali etymology for Badlay and Harari one are prolly the two most plausible ones, but I think mine makes more sense because Sultan Badlay was a conqueror, and a conqueror fights nations, not bandits.

Considering in Futuh that the leader of the Marehan was Goita Tedros, I’d like to think that the Marehan had close ties with Ethio-Semites. This makes the idea of ”maraxa” a Harari word a plausible etymology for the Marehan clan.

 

[Three Moons]

@daljirkadahsoon
First of all i should clarify that sultan's name wasn't badlay but Shihab al din ahmed, badlay acted as his nickname.
View attachment 325565
The somali etymology would be:
Baad-laay
Baad meaning the money the bandits take in af somali
Laay meaning their slayer so:
Slayer of bandits (He was known for being righteous so makes sense).
The xabashis had their own nickname for him too which was awre meaning snake, probably linked to him because he used snakes as a symbol.
View attachment 325567

Alternatives;

Badlay / Badleh = owner of the sea, see Diinleh, Barkhadleh, Waranleh, etc.

Badlay = Nisbah from the town of Badle, Ogaden. Though I have never seen a reference using the term al-Badlay.

Badlay = keeper of the peace, see the term badbaado. The latter fits well with your etymology.