Is The Adal Sultan Abu Bakr Ibn Muhammad A Somali Or A Harari

[daljirkadahsoon]

The Somali etymology for Badlay and Harari one are prolly the two most plausible ones, but I think mine makes more sense because Sultan Badlay was a conqueror, and a conqueror fights nations, not bandits.

Considering in Futuh that the leader of the Marehan was Goita Tedros, I’d like to think that the Marehan had close ties with Ethio-Semites. This makes the idea of ”maraxa” a Harari word a plausible etymology for the Marehan clan.

If there is more of a tie than that one Ugaaz then I would say it is plausible.

But I remember reading the Ethiopians would take high ranking Adal noble children as hostages so it is possible this is why he is known by this name. It may not even be his name but only what the Christians called him.

 

[Step a side]

I wasn't aware this word exists in Harari but there is also an etymology for it in the Somali language.

Some have proposed it means 'one who walks on sweet smelling flowers' in reference to the myrrth and other aromatic resins that they used to have in their territory.

Another theory that exists is that it refers to them as unbeatable conquerors who defeated large numbers i.e Mare-Xaan (Xaan being an uncountable number)

Harari language is irrelevant when it comes to the history of the region. They don’t exist anywhere outside the city of Harar. They are similar to the native Banaadiri confined within the 4 gates of old Xamar districts.

 

[oogabooga]

Badlay / Badleh = owner of the sea, see Diinleh, Barkhadleh, Waranleh, etc.

Badlay = Nisbah from the town of Badle, Ogaden. Though I have never seen a reference using the term al-Badlay.

Badlay = keeper of the peace, see the term badbaado. The latter fits well with your etymology.

Interesting, does -leh mean “owner?” Cause you mentioned Diinleh, in geysinan we say Dinat. And I was wondering what the multiple means for “din” were. For example, “dinat” means “one’s property/belonging,” so my thought process was does “din” mean “an individual?” What does it mean in Af Somali?

 

[oogabooga]

If there is more of a tie than that one Ugaaz then I would say it is plausible.

But I remember reading the Ethiopians would take high ranking Adal noble children as hostages so it is possible this is why he is known by this name. It may not even be his name but only what the Christians called him.

Futuh was written in Arabic and the info inside it was collected from Adalites. I doubt they would mention a Christian name in it. Also, Goita means “Lord” in the harari language (it’s a title). It’s not inherently Christian, if anything the Tedros part is.

 

[Three Moons]

Interesting, does -leh mean “owner?” Cause you mentioned Diinleh, in geysinan we say Dinat. And I was wondering what the multiple means for “din” were. For example, “dinat” means “one’s property/belonging,” so my thought process was does “din” mean “an individual?” What does it mean in Af Somali?

Diin = religion, see Sultan Olol Diinleh.

 

[oogabooga]

Diin = religion.

Nothing else?

 

[Three Moons]

Nothing else?

Its an Arabic loanword i.e ‘Din’, which has other usages, including the word for debt = ‘deyn’.

 

[oogabooga]

Its an Arabic loanword i.e ‘Din’, which has other usages, including the word for debt = ‘deyn’.

Ok yeah the main use is religion as well.

 

[Riftvalley]

Futuh was written in Arabic and the info inside it was collected from Adalites. I doubt they would mention a Christian name in it. Also, Goita means “Lord” in the harari language (it’s a title). It’s not inherently Christian, if anything the Tedros part is.

Futuh was also written in a political context which has to be taken into consideration. The author tries to justify imam Ahmed’s early civil war against the Zeila based sultan/ their hoards of Somalis as he refers to them. The Christian-sounding Tedros name might have a mockery of the Marexaan leaders name for opposing the Imam.

aslo, high unlikely Marexaan has Semitic etymology. All Darood clans have Somali names.

 

[oogabooga]

Futuh was also written in a political context which has to be taken into consideration. The author tries to justify imam Ahmed’s early civil war against the Zeila based sultan/ their hoards of Somalis as he refers to them. The Christian-sounding Tedros name might have a mockery of the Marexaan leaders name for opposing the Imam.

aslo, high unlikely Marexaan has Semitic etymology. All Darood clans have Somali names.

Oh yeah, you make a valid point. The author was talking to people who were part of Imam Ahmed’s core group. The Somali tribes mostly allied with the Sultan so Imam Ahmed had to put them in place before the great expeditions.
Even if you think it is highly unlikely, the Marehan etymology is a valid one, probably one of the most valid amongst theories.
Darod are all scattered around the Horn, don’t forget Darod wasn’t just one stationary entity but a delocalized moving group.

 

[ina-cilmi]

Oh yeah, you make a valid point. The author was talking to people who were part of Imam Ahmed’s core group. The Somali tribes mostly allied with the Sultan so Imam Ahmed had to put them in place before the great expeditions.
Even if you think it is highly unlikely, the Marehan etymology is a valid one, probably one of the most valid amongst theories.
Darod are all scattered around the Horn, don’t forget Darod wasn’t just one stationary entity but a delocalized moving group.

what ethnicity do you think Gurey/Gragn was?

 

[oogabooga]

what ethnicity do you think Gurey/Gragn was?

I am of the belief that there are two Ahmeds, Imam Ahmed and Ahmed Gurey. Imam Ahmed is probably Harla and Ahmed Gurey is confirmed Somali. People tend to conflate the two.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Marehan itself is an Ethio-Semitic word. Just because they have an Ethio-Semitic name it doesn’t mean they were, it just means they interacted with them.

Maraxa means “to captivate (figuratively), to get loot” in the Harari language.

Ethio-Semetic doesn't mean much when waaq is consider Ethio-Semetic word.

 

[Three Moons]

I am of the belief that there are two Ahmeds, Imam Ahmed and Ahmed Gurey. Imam Ahmed is probably Harla and Ahmed Gurey is confirmed Somali. People tend to conflate the two.

Only the Imam was left-handed, so how could they be conflated? The only ethnic group with a direct connection to the Harla in the Futuh are also only the Somalis, where one of their clans literally rose from the country of Harla. Genealogically and linguistically their only direct link is again with other Somali clans, be it the remnant Harla absorbed by the Afars, the Oromos or other Somalis, they all maintain(ed) Somali clan lineages and spoke a Somali dialect called af-Harlaad. Its also very unlikely that an unrelated ‘Harla’ could settle disputes between Somali clans the way Imam Ahmed did in the 16th century or comfortably live amongst the harsh nomads unless he was from a sedentary or urban lineage of Somalis, which seems more likely based on his close ties with other Somali historical figures, through marriage, blood and friendship.

Do you have any primary sources making similar links to the Harari people? That would be interesting.

 

[Riftvalley]

Oh yeah, you make a valid point. The author was talking to people who were part of Imam Ahmed’s core group. The Somali tribes mostly allied with the Sultan so Imam Ahmed had to put them in place before the great expeditions.
Even if you think it is highly unlikely, the Marehan etymology is a valid one, probably one of the most valid amongst theories.
Darod are all scattered around the Horn, don’t forget Darod wasn’t just one stationary entity but a delocalized moving group.

All the darood clan names or nicknames etymologies are of Somali Cushitic origin (minus the Arabic).All nicknames of darood clan founders have etymological explanations in Somali oral stories. Marexaan being the exception and having a so-called ethio Semitic root doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Riftvalley]

Only the Imam was left-handed, so how could they be conflated? The only ethnic group with a direct connection to the Harla in the Futuh are also only the Somalis, where one of their clans literally rose from the country of Harla. Genealogically and linguistically their only direct link is again with other Somali clans, be it the remnant Harla absorbed by the Afars, the Oromos or other Somalis, they all maintain(ed) Somali clan lineages and spoke a Somali dialect called af-Harlaad. Its also very unlikely that an unrelated ‘Harla’ could settle disputes between Somali clans the way Imam Ahmed did in the 16th century or comfortably live amongst the harsh nomads unless he was from a sedentary or urban lineage of Somalis, which seems more likely based on his close ties with other Somali historical figures, through marriage, blood and friendship.

Do you have any primary sources making similar links to the Harari people? That would be interesting.

Hailesallese speaking in the 20th century said that Ethiopian highlanders remember Ahmad Gurey attack like it was yesterday. The war had consequences in terms of migrations, poverty and clan movements for the entire Africa.

This man holds a special place in Somali history. And Somalis were vital to him in his view as well as he took the effort to write to all Somali clans. It was the first Somali warriors reached the hills of the highlands to plunder and conquer. I don’t believe they would confuse the man at the centre of This epic saga for a lesser figure in the Somali clan leader. And then they remember the exact hand with which he held his sword. Such a theory was first proposed by IM Lewis

 

[Step a side]

I am of the belief that there are two Ahmeds, Imam Ahmed and Ahmed Gurey. Imam Ahmed is probably Harla and Ahmed Gurey is confirmed Somali. People tend to conflate the two.

Forget his ethnicity. His entire abtirsi is recorded. Its unanimous with many Germans such as Manfred Kropp who wrote Ethiopian history of the 20th century, Paulitschke who met Rer Ibrahim in the 19th century and said they were the first Somalis in the land and are the most important of people, several European institutes have taken from Ahmed Shami, Berhanu Kamal wrote his own book in Amharic today and has 30 books on Ethiopian history and confirms the same lineage, Layla Sabag a Syrian writer the same.

 

[oogabooga]

Only the Imam was left-handed, so how could they be conflated? The only ethnic group with a direct connection to the Harla in the Futuh are also only the Somalis, where one of their clans literally rose from the country of Harla. Genealogically and linguistically their only direct link is again with other Somali clans, be it the remnant Harla absorbed by the Afars, the Oromos or other Somalis, they all maintain(ed) Somali clan lineages and spoke a Somali dialect called af-Harlaad. Its also very unlikely that an unrelated ‘Harla’ could settle disputes between Somali clans the way Imam Ahmed did in the 16th century or comfortably live amongst the harsh nomads unless he was from a sedentary or urban lineage of Somalis, which seems more likely based on his close ties with other Somali historical figures, through marriage, blood and friendship.

Do you have any primary sources making similar links to the Harari people? That would be interesting.

Not really man, don’t forget that Harla clan names, people, and places were mentioned in Futuh. I, a speaker of the Harari language, understand what they mean. For example, the location where the army of Imam Ahmed crossed the Awash was called Dir. Dir means “plain” in the Harari language. When you say something is in plain sight, you would say “Dirre be hal.”
I could go on and on with Harla names that were mentioned and I can explain it to you. Like how Awash and Abbay Rivers are connected.
Somalis do not have a linguistic connection to Harla, contrary to popular belief. “Af Harlaad” is just Somali language with a few letters flipped around, while they can’t tell me what any name of Harla means. Enrico Cerulli did a good job setting up studies in the Horn, but it was rudimentary. There are more advanced studies that is challenging some of his works.
It is totally possible for Imam Ahmed being Harla to settle disputes. If you read Futuh, in the beginning Imam Ahmed’s core was agriculturalists that fought against the Sultan and his Somali power base. He beat the Sultan with his Harla agricultural power base like Abu Bakr Qacchin, and with his already existing ties with other friendly Somali tribes (like his in-law Garad Matan) he clamped down on any Somali opposition. Isn’t that why he went to invade Somalis before he went to Abysinnia? He wasn’t a wimp and took his strong power base and invaded their settlements near the sea. He didn’t have to be Somali to do that.

Harari manuscripts describe the situation after Imam Ahmed, with Amir Nur’s actions towards aiding the Harla refugees and telling the other cities to copy the results of Harar, from hundreds of our villages being sacked by the ongoing Oromo onslaught, Amir Nur taking his troops to invade Abysinnia again and abandoning them in modern day Silte land. The tragic defeat of the Battle of Hazalo (Azalo means “they climbed”, it’s a mountain). The power struggles in Harar after Amir Nur’s death. The elite moving their capital to Awsa after failed leadership struggles. That’s why Afar claim they are Harla. In the Afar chronicles family tree, Harari names like Dus are present. Harari manuscripts are very helpful in understanding the period.

 

[killerxsmoke]

I am of the belief that there are two Ahmeds, Imam Ahmed and Ahmed Gurey. Imam Ahmed is probably Harla and Ahmed Gurey is confirmed Somali. People tend to conflate the two.

Imam ahmed is ahmed gurey, heres evidence in the futuh al habasha that he was left handed

 

[killerxsmoke]

Not really man, don’t forget that Harla clan names, people, and places were mentioned in Futuh. I, a speaker of the Harari language, understand what they mean. For example, the location where the army of Imam Ahmed crossed the Awash was called Dir. Dir means “plain” in the Harari language. When you say something is in plain sight, you would say “Dirre be hal.”
I could go on and on with Harla names that were mentioned and I can explain it to you. Like how Awash and Abbay Rivers are connected.
Somalis do not have a linguistic connection to Harla, contrary to popular belief. “Af Harlaad” is just Somali language with a few letters flipped around, while they can’t tell me what any name of Harla means. Enrico Cerulli did a good job setting up studies in the Horn, but it was rudimentary. There are more advanced studies that is challenging some of his works.
It is totally possible for Imam Ahmed being Harla to settle disputes. If you read Futuh, in the beginning Imam Ahmed’s core was agriculturalists that fought against the Sultan and his Somali power base. He beat the Sultan with his Harla agricultural power base like Abu Bakr Qacchin, and with his already existing ties with other friendly Somali tribes (like his in-law Garad Matan) he clamped down on any Somali opposition. Isn’t that why he went to invade Somalis before he went to Abysinnia? He wasn’t a wimp and took his strong power base and invaded their settlements near the sea. He didn’t have to be Somali to do that.

Harari manuscripts describe the situation after Imam Ahmed, with Amir Nur’s actions towards aiding the Harla refugees and telling the other cities to copy the results of Harar, from hundreds of our villages being sacked by the ongoing Oromo onslaught, Amir Nur taking his troops to invade Abysinnia again and abandoning them in modern day Silte land. The tragic defeat of the Battle of Hazalo (Azalo means “they climbed”, it’s a mountain). The power struggles in Harar after Amir Nur’s death. The elite moving their capital to Awsa after failed leadership struggles. That’s why Afar claim they are Harla. In the Afar chronicles family tree, Harari names like Dus are present. Harari manuscripts are very helpful in understanding the period.

Do you believe amir nur is somali