Is Somalilands independence really at odds with Somaliweyn?

[Galguduudguy]

Hearing HSM keep banging on about respecting international norms and sovereignty got me thinking, isn’t that what people will say if (when) we try and take what’s rightfully ours.

if we were to recognise somaliland in return for them helping us free Ogaden and NFD as ‘Their own states’. You know, if we ‘had a deep respect for the right to self determination’ and all them other ajnabi buzzwords.

surely that’s two birds one stone as well as the perks a united confederation of states could provide.

 

[NOT-ACTIVE]

SL has no right to claim other people’s land based on colonial borders. Those borders ended the day the last colonizer returned back to the UK

 

[Galguduudguy]

SL has no right to claim other people’s land based on colonial borders. Those borders ended the day the last colonizer returned back to the UK

Not really what I’m saying though. I’m saying is there a more realistic and achievable version of Somaliweyn. I believe so and think somaliland could be a useful propaganda tool as well as an ally.

 

[Garaad Awal]

SL has no right to claim other people’s land based on colonial borders. Those borders ended the day the last colonizer returned back to the UK

Everything is based on the colonial borders. Just like you respect the British Kenyan borders you will soon learn to respect the SL borders.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Hearing HSM keep banging on about respecting international norms and sovereignty got me thinking, isn’t that what people will say if (when) we try and take what’s rightfully ours.

if we were to recognise somaliland in return for them helping us free Ogaden and NFD as ‘Their own states’. You know, if we ‘had a deep respect for the right to self determination’ and all them other ajnabi buzzwords.

surely that’s two birds one stone as well as the perks a united confederation of states could provide.

If idoor had country, they will start wars against other Somalis.

 

[Three Moons]

If we were located on the landmass known as Madagascar I wouldn’t mind. Somalis would only neighbour other Somalis, no existential threats. In our current location, however, further fragmentation is ethnic suicide.

 

[Mohmed]

Everything is based on the colonial borders. Just like you respect the British Kenyan borders you will soon learn to respect the SL borders.

lmfao

 

[Badacas23]

Everything is based on the colonial borders. Just like you respect the British Kenyan borders you will soon learn to respect the SL borders.

True every border in africa is based on Colonial border , the best thing for koonfuris would be to respect Somaliland Somalia Borders 1960

 

[Garaad Awal]

True every border in africa is based on Colonial border , the best thing for koonfuris would be to respect Somaliland Somalia Borders 1960

They respect the Ethiopian border (even though it wasn’t ratified for Somalia Italiana) and the Kenyan borders but SL is out of the question.

They would rather see foreigners rule Somalia than have fellow Somalis rule over their Jabarti cousins. Somalia’s issue with SL isn’t about any principles!

Even HSM came out and said he would of done the deal with Abiy if Abiy brought the deal to him Xamar’s problem is with the Isaaq clan, they want to force the Jabarti-H*tu duoply on SL who rejected it and defeated it militarily in the 80s. They still hold grievances from this period while Jabarti cannot fathom other Somalis ruling over their cousins but are perfectly fine with Jabartis getting slapped in Gode or Garissa by non-Somalis.

Anytime a Somalian speaks about Somaliweyn or Somalinimo just know nothing but Jabarti or H*utu clan propaganda Is about to follow suit

 

[Celery]

Its not about clan or anything. It’s about precedent. If you let SL leave then PL will leave and every tuulo will become its own bullshit land. Notice how no country wants this to happen due to the precedent it will set.

Canada fears losing Quebec. Spain fears losing Catalonia and Basque. Belgium fears being split into Wallonia and Flanders. UK will be under pressure again to give up Scotland. The list goes on and on. And let’s not forget about Texas.

With how loud and boisterous Somalis are, the news will take over social media and every independence movement in the world will be emboldened. No one cares about the sovereignty of Somalia. They care about setting a dangerous precedent.

 

[NOT-ACTIVE]

Everything is based on the colonial borders. Just like you respect the British Kenyan borders you will soon learn to respect the SL borders.

British colonial borders no longer became relevant once the north and south united in 1960

Now SL is no different from any of the other secessionist movements in Africa, and will continued to be treated as such

 

[NOT-ACTIVE]

Not really what I’m saying though. I’m saying is there a more realistic and achievable version of Somaliweyn. I believe so and think somaliland could be a useful propaganda tool as well as an ally.

I understand but it’s not a risk we should be willing to take. How do we know that they’d honor that deal and help liberate Galbeed and NFD? That MOU deal is enough reason not to trust them imo

 

[LiveFrom]

Not really what I’m saying though. I’m saying is there a more realistic and achievable version of Somaliweyn. I believe so and think somaliland could be a useful propaganda tool as well as an ally.

Imo the best way to achieve somaliweyn is

SOMALILAND (1-5 yrs): self evident collapse, rhe MOU war will be the last in the 3 wars that collapsed SL

OGADEN (5-10 yrs): help ethiopia reach the tipping point to collapse, their invasion is them tying the rope around their own neck. Its not the same type of war as 2006, theyre invading land they want to USE (awdal) not OCCUPY (Mogadishu). It changes the risk assessment and amount of force ethiopia can use, muzzling their military advantage. If they make a deal for a port, and bomb the shit out of it...crazier stuff has happened

If defeated and state federalizes, there will be no qualms if ogaden secedes and joins somalia.

DJIBOUTI (10-20yrs): theres no way this guy IOG can withstand any type of pressure from a cohesive state, and in not talking militarily. With the knowledge on ethnic and qabiil history that the somali state has, regime change wouldnt be tough. Ofc djibouti might agree to federalizarion peacefully but i doubt it.


NFD (n/a) : longer term issue, need to probe their weaknesses. Tougher sell also because theres a significant population of somalis that have beeb assimilated. Maybe they act stupid on the maritime border, and we get casus belli

Sources: internet

 

[Galguduudguy]

I understand but it’s not a risk we should be willing to take. How do we know that they’d honor that deal and help liberate Galbeed and NFD? That MOU deal is enough reason not to trust them imo

Maybe I am naive, but I believe heavily in the power of narrative.

it’s not Bixi you have to trust in, but somalinimo.

If the narrative around it changed from centralising and unifying all Somalis to freeing, Landers would be hypocritical to not help.

Right now the narrative Pitts us as enemies, but to me another Somali isn’t an enemy unless they attack (or at least are planning to)

Also, historically speaking we have never been united once, instead we’ve always had a multitude of kingdoms at the same time.

I’d like to thank you also for actually staying on topic and no derailing like others.

jazakallah khair

 

[Galguduudguy]

Its not about clan or anything. It’s about precedent. If you let SL leave then PL will leave and every tuulo will become its own bullshit land. Notice how no country wants this to happen due to the precedent it will set.

Canada fears losing Quebec. Spain fears losing Catalonia and Basque. Belgium fears being split into Wallonia and Flanders. UK will be under pressure again to give up Scotland. The list goes on and on. And let’s not forget about Texas.

With how loud and boisterous Somalis are, the news will take over social media and every independence movement in the world will be emboldened. No one cares about the sovereignty of Somalia. They care about setting a dangerous precedent.

Not necessarily, those states would have to also get lucky in that their de-jure state collapses or becomes weak enough that they can start enacting defacto rule over it.

Spain, the UK and Canada would only give those up through referendum after who knows how long of lobbying.

thank you for responding bro.
jazakallah khair

 

[FBIsomalia]

British colonial borders no longer became relevant once the north and south united in 1960

Now SL is no different from any of the other secessionist movements in Africa, and will continued to be treated as such

By Somalia dastuur and Somalia citizen vote for dastuur in 1961. Colonial borders are not exist.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Maybe I am naive, but I believe heavily in the power of narrative.

it’s not Bixi you have to trust in, but somalinimo.

If the narrative around it changed from centralising and unifying all Somalis to freeing, Landers would be hypocritical to not help.

Right now the narrative Pitts us as enemies, but to me another Somali isn’t an enemy unless they attack (or at least are planning to)

Also, historically speaking we have never been united once, instead we’ve always had a multitude of kingdoms at the same time.

I’d like to thank you also for actually staying on topic and no derailing like others.

jazakallah khair

We were united many times in history against xabish. You should learn more about Somalia history.

 

[Abdisamad]

Everything is based on the colonial borders. Just like you respect the British Kenyan borders you will soon learn to respect the SL borders.

We'll put a bullet in your ass then you'll learn how much we respect "British made“ borders.

 

[Abdisamad]

lmfao

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Its not about clan or anything. It’s about precedent. If you let SL leave then PL will leave and every tuulo will become its own bullshit land. Notice how no country wants this to happen due to the precedent it will set.

Canada fears losing Quebec. Spain fears losing Catalonia and Basque. Belgium fears being split into Wallonia and Flanders. UK will be under pressure again to give up Scotland. The list goes on and on. And let’s not forget about Texas.

With how loud and boisterous Somalis are, the news will take over social media and every independence movement in the world will be emboldened. No one cares about the sovereignty of Somalia. They care about setting a dangerous precedent.

There's no precedent at all. 24 countries since 1990 have seceeded.

Somalia already fell apart in 1991, the only people trying to hold it together is those who have monopolized political power within the FGS. As soon as external funding and support is gone the government will collapse and everyone will form their own states with nothing to stop them.