Is Somalilands independence really at odds with Somaliweyn?

[Ximan iyo Xadeed]

Hearing HSM keep banging on about respecting international norms and sovereignty got me thinking, isn’t that what people will say if (when) we try and take what’s rightfully ours.

if we were to recognise somaliland in return for them helping us free Ogaden and NFD as ‘Their own states’. You know, if we ‘had a deep respect for the right to self determination’ and all them other ajnabi buzzwords.

surely that’s two birds one stone as well as the perks a united confederation of states could provide.

SL proper = Isaaq inhabited areas

 

[Abdisamad]

SL proper = Isaaq inhabited areas

Niggaz claiming other regions/territories saying British empire gave it to us.. What a legitimate claim.. We need to setup a clown show to parodi this claim

 

[Ximan iyo Xadeed]

Niggaz claiming other regions/territories saying British empire gave it to us.. What legitimate claim.. We need to setup a clown show to parodi this claim

I have no problems with SL if they drop the kibir we split whats ours and they can go do whatever they want with theirs

 

[Abdisamad]

I have no problems with SL if they drop the kibir we split whats ours and they can go do whatever they want with theirs

Yes but they want to claim lands/regions that doesn't even belong to their qabiil, one thing is being seccesionists but another thing is trying to hostage other Somalis into your ideals.

 

[Celery]

There's no precedent at all. 24 countries since 1990 have seceeded.

Somalia already fell apart in 1991, the only people trying to hold it together is those who have monopolized political power within the FGS. As soon as external funding and support is gone the government will collapse and everyone will form their own states with nothing to stop them.

The countries you’re talking about such as South Sudan, the balkans etc were formed due to ethnic cleansing and ethnic fighting.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

The countries you’re talking about such as South Sudan, the balkans etc were formed due to ethnic cleansing and ethnic fighting.

There are many different reasons why and how those countries seceeded.

Somaliland won't be allowed to seceed by Somalia but it will gain partial recognition. More trade, development and security arrangements that will strengthen its position as an independent state.

 

[Celery]

There are many different reasons why and how those countries seceeded.

Somaliland won't be allowed to seceed by Somalia but it will gain partial recognition. More trade, development and security arrangements that will strengthen its position as an independent state.

A stable and self sufficient “country” in such a strategic position would be in the interest of US, EU, Arabs etc. Ask yourself why this hasn’t happened.

 

[Celery]

There are many different reasons why and how those countries seceeded.

Somaliland won't be allowed to seceed by Somalia but it will gain partial recognition. More trade, development and security arrangements that will strengthen its position as an independent state.

That’s not it dude. Lol no one cares what Somalia says.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Maybe I am naive, but I believe heavily in the power of narrative.

it’s not Bixi you have to trust in, but somalinimo.

If the narrative around it changed from centralising and unifying all Somalis to freeing, Landers would be hypocritical to not help.

Right now the narrative Pitts us as enemies, but to me another Somali isn’t an enemy unless they attack (or at least are planning to)

Also, historically speaking we have never been united once, instead we’ve always had a multitude of kingdoms at the same time.

I’d like to thank you also for actually staying on topic and no derailing like others.

jazakallah khair

You are one of the wise ones. We need more Somalians like you

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

A stable and self sufficient “country” in such a strategic position would be in the interest of US, EU, Arabs etc. Ask yourself why this hasn’t happened.

Why do you think it's happening now? Economic and security interests have now aligned and it's to do with trade networks and shipping lanes. Ethiopian Navy is being supported by UAE and others.

 

[Celery]

Why do you think it's happening now? Economic and security interests have now aligned and it's to do with trade networks and shipping lanes. Ethiopian Navy is being supported by UAE and others.

It’s not happening now lol. Do you not have eyes?

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

It’s not happening now lol. Do you not have eyes?

I didn't hear it had been called off.

Just because some countries spoke out against it that doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Even the US being opposed could change with another president. What matters is whether anyone is going to make a serious challenge to the MoU and we've seen no evidence of that. Egypt looked like the real deal but they backed off.

 

[Garaad Awal]

I didn't hear it had been called off.

Just because some countries spoke out against it that doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Even the US being opposed could change with another president. What matters is whether anyone is going to make a serious challenge to the MoU and we've seen no evidence of that. Egypt looked like the real deal but they backed off.

The deal is still going ahead both SL & Ethiopia are ignoring the West and the useless Arab League especially as the UAE & Saudi Arabia remain silent on the MOU.

 

[Celery]

I didn't hear it had been called off.

Just because some countries spoke out against it that doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Even the US being opposed could change with another president. What matters is whether anyone is going to make a serious challenge to the MoU and we've seen no evidence of that. Egypt looked like the real deal but they backed off.

An MoU is an intent to do something. Abiy is testing the waters to see reactions. Nothing has been put on paper.

 

[Garaad Awal]

An MoU is an intent to do something. Abiy is testing the waters to see reactions. Nothing has been put on paper.

Even the DP World Berbera Port agreement was a signed MOU and they did everything they said they would. Keep telling yourself that tho, deal is going ahead

 

[Celery]

Even the DP World Berbera Port agreement was a signed MOU and they did everything they said they would. Keep telling yourself that tho, deal is going ahead

Ethiopia is not as relevant in the world as you think. The only true outcome will be military domination of the region and demographic change. You’ll be arguing that raw meat is halal later. You need to give up the “maalin ba nala wasay” cuqdad

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Ethiopia is not as relevant in the world as you think. The only true outcome will be military domination of the region and demographic change. You’ll be arguing that raw meat is halal later.

People like you are very disingenuous. You carry on this whole conversation pretending to have legitimate doubts when in reality you are just politically opposed. Just say that at the beginning and don't waste people's time. I guess you are hoping people are less informed than you and you can sow doubt or something.

 

[Celery]

People like you are very disingenuous. You carry on this whole conversation pretending to have legitimate doubts when in reality you are just politically opposed. Just say that at the beginning and don't waste people's time. I guess you are hoping people are less informed than you and you can sow doubt or something.

No I’m not disingenuous. This deal won’t work for practical and legal reasons. That your people milk the victim cow is also true.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

No I’m not disingenuous. This deal won’t work for practical and legal reasons. That your people milk the victim cow is also true.

Can you explain your position? What are the practical and legal reasons? I'm willing to see if you aren't just throwing things out there.

 

[Celery]

Can you explain your position? What are the practical and legal reasons? I'm willing to see if you aren't just throwing things out there.

It’s illegal for a country to annex a part of another country by making a deal with a part of that country. Somalias dispute is with Ethiopia and it will win at ICJ and other international forums like the security council. The 1960 nonsense is not a thing.

A port “deal” that is considered illegal by the international community and lacks legal standing is considered occupation.

In addition to all of this, Somalia’s arms embargo has been lifted and it would be well within international law to go into that region and enforce its laws. The arms embargo only lets the federal government import weapons.