Is Modern Judaism a form of White Supremacy?

[Barkhadle1520]

i feel like ancient isrealites went extinct i mean no one is calling themselfs ancient isrealite anymore maybe their dna survived but after going trough so much i think theres no more ancient isrealite and the ashkenazis are just bunch of european converts to judaism

Bro they literally had to revive hebrew, these people have nothing to do with the middle-east, their skin cant even handle the climate and they have the highest skin cancer rates

Anyone could tell they dont belong, I mean were tf have you seen middle eastern people that look like this, even syrians the most cadaan looking middle easterners dont look this cadaan

This is their PM and his blonde kids

Go on google and search : Benjamin Netenyahu real name

 

[astralpro30]

LOL "CAANANITE" XD

 

[astralpro30]

Bro they literally had to revive hebrew, these people have nothing to do with the middle-east, their skin cant even handle the climate and they have the highest skin cancer rates

Anyone could tell they dont belong, I mean were tf have you seen middle eastern people that look like this, even syrians the most cadaan looking middle easterners dont look this cadaan
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This is their PM and his blonde kids
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Go on google and search : Benjamin Netenyahu real name

"The Canaanites, as a distinct ancient cultural and ethnic group, are considered extinct"

 

[Barkhadle1520]

"The Canaanites, as a distinct ancient cultural and ethnic group, are considered extinct"

Palestinians today are closer genetically to canaanites than israelis

It just makes sense, but zios have to deny it because it would prove theyre not native

 

[The alchemist]

Israel is a shit-show and you won't hear me ever defend it or Zionists but these are not "white" people.

I agree with what you've said, although their true ancestry derived from their Jewish genetics is more like 30-35% with the rest being Levantine ancestry absorbed through other Eastern Mediterranean on the Greco-Roman side, post-migration.

I would say Ashkenazi Jews are similar to how Italians are white, and I would say Ashkenazi Jews are not white like how Sicilians are not white to me. In this case, Ashkenazi Jews, regardless of sticking out in some places, were also accepted by Apartheid South Africa as belonging to the white class. In America, the Jews historically enjoyed being white, and they do to this day since most of them look no darker than Italian Americans.

Although these racial classifications are different, Jews are definitely a Western people. Hands down, I would think it would be crazy to argue otherwise. The Jews are a sub-class of Western peoples. It was not always like this historically, because when they were under the Muslims, they were very MENA. And let's be real, there is a class thing. The reason why many consider Ashkenazis to be white is because of their socio-economic alignments. They're practically elites who have more in common with white elites than colored people. They assimilate easily.

In that sense, are Jews white by genetics? No. They're sort of a MENA shifting intermediate Mediterranean group. Like Cypriots. I would not consider Cypriots white, but best believe a Cypriot (Greek, not Turkish) who moves to America would mirror the rest of the clearly white people and fit in. And the interesting thing is, Turkish Cypriots who are genetically similar to the Greek Cypriots would not be white and more identify with the brown peoples. Jews are basically Greek Cypriots. I think this is the perfect analogy. Because I think Cypriots have the same type of basal MENA as Western Jews.

There are also the elements of Ashkenazi Jews living in Slavic and Germanic lands so much absorbing some genetics and many lifeways, where their last names became similar to those people ending in "-berg" or "-ski" - their European existence is still relevant despite sticking out. An African American was literally a slave for centuries in America, but those guys are a Western population, not African.

Let's take Theodore Herzl, he was a Europeanist elitist type. He saw himself as the Germans and the French, not like the Palestinians. Whenever he spoke about MENA groups, it was like a white man speaking of them at that time. They were foreign to him, and that is how Ashkenazi Jews were: Europeans. That is the reason those colonialist Zionist Brits considered Jews to be a mediating projection of their imperialism, a buffer and representation of them in the "Orient." They were like "We cannot talk to these Arabs, but the Jews can, and Jews are like us." In that dichotomy, Jews lean in with the whites and away from the Arabs.

Now you might say, but what about the Sephardic, Mizrahi, etc. Well, they're Ashkenazified. When those people came to Israel, they were dominated by the ruling elites who were European Jews, and they had to homogenize themselves to that. That is why you see Jews who are Arab (let's be frank) now suddenly act like the ones who came from Poland. There was an assimilation process where the brown Jews had to Westernize, become less Arab, and literally just divorce themselves from their own cultures for a Western European group who is indistinguishable from "modernist" white, like Ashkenazi.

I'm not going to include how awkwardly MENA and Jews too classified as "white" in America (that would never happen here in Europe) because I understand that people fighting to be "white" category kind of would have given you higher access and success chances. Like how Isaaq wanted to be classified similar to the Indians in early colonial Kenya. This would have given them privileges in a hierarchical society. And this was later used against Somalis who were actually native to the land, where the Kenyans did not give them legal status, as the Isaaqs were classified as "other." That is just an example of how Somalis, such as the clan I belong to, took advantage of a colonial system to increase their prospects. These Isaaqs were technically elites financially, so it paid off. We were new to that region, unlike the Somalis of the NFD, and the anti-Somali sentiment among other groups who wanted to suppress the Somali growth and significance and self-determination, tried to spin the false notion that Somalis there were like the Isaaq newcomers, not native like the Indians. That is just an example.

To go back, a brown Jew then is a Westerner, he is homogenized like the Ashkenazi and would enjoy white privileges as an honorary individual in white majority countries, and would not be treated like an Arab.

Historically, this was not the case. Zionism homogenized Jews. Jews were very heterogeneous. Like a Jew from Iraq had more in common and would view a Jew from Lithuania in the 1800s to be very distinct from them. One is white, the other is Arab. Two culturally distinct peoples.

We have an example of how this shift happened. In Egypt, the Jews there were practically doing well (these people were integrated with the elite class), but during the WW2 era, Zionists from Israel influenced some people there, so some Egyptian Jews became Zionists while others were anti-Zionist and sided with Palestinians, and they were very pan-Arab. Since Jews were the elites there, many of them had cosmopolitan connections with Europe. So these guys were not localized. This led to people quickly learning about trends and siding quickly. Jews in Egypt were connected to Jews from other places, like Sham. For example, in the 10th century, there was a religious institution called the Palestinian Ganonate where Jews sort of centralized a commonality through religious mediation in a sub-regional way. So I would imagine a Syrian Jew and an Egyptian Jew would be similar in their ways.

So these Jews were often elites, educated, cosmpolitan, generally more aware and engaged with European matters and at some point they saw the West growing stronger, Israel popping up with the Zionist propaganda of holyland, then some friction with the Arab locals feeling rightfully some type of way of some of the demographic who were outwardly Zionist, being favored by colonialists and also expressing Western leaning lifeways and questioning their loyalty as they clearly were very elite, Western and often were growingly Western interacting with the Ashkenazis.

The Israeli European Jews who, in clandestine ways, had come to Egypt to speak of the Zionist ideology (this is true), with that sentiment growing, added that many Jews in Egypt were somewhat integrated with Europe, stoking a growing problem. A section of them were early Egyptian nationalists who were not Zionist, but they too had interests that aligned with the other side in terms of interests and ethnic entanglement, so over time, you had a sort of quiet betrayal of Jews over Arabs, going to Israel and/or to Western nations like America. These Jews became completely Western and removed their Egyptian affinity that had conditioned them for many centuries. So a random Egyptian coming across a guy of an Egyptian Jewish background from his grandparents would not relate on that end. His parents probably would not.

That is a short and patchy example of a complex situation that shows how brown Jews became Western and now would identify with a random white man rather than an Arab, despite having grandparents who lived in a Karaite or other neighboring quarter in Cairo.

As such, these brown people became Western and in Israel, not only Western but Ashkenazi Jewish expressing. You have a handful of Karaites in Israel. Those guys pray prostrating like Muslims, but they are considered like Amish, and their youth are joining the general Ashkenazi type of Jewry, which is the dominant.

 

[Shimbiris]

I agree with what you've said, although their true ancestry derived from their Jewish genetics is more like 30-35% with the rest being Levantine ancestry absorbed through other Eastern Mediterranean on the Greco-Roman side, post-migration.

I would say Ashkenazi Jews are similar to how Italians are white, and I would say Ashkenazi Jews are not white like how Sicilians are not white to me. In this case, Ashkenazi Jews, regardless of sticking out in some places, were also accepted by Apartheid South Africa as belonging to the white class. In America, the Jews historically enjoyed being white, and they do to this day since most of them look no darker than Italian Americans.

Although these racial classifications are different, Jews are definitely a Western people. Hands down, I would think it would be crazy to argue otherwise. The Jews are a sub-class of Western peoples. It was not always like this historically, because when they were under the Muslims, they were very MENA. And let's be real, there is a class thing. The reason why many consider Ashkenazis to be white is because of their socio-economic alignments. They're practically elites who have more in common with white elites than colored people. They assimilate easily.

In that sense, are Jews white by genetics? No. They're sort of a MENA shifting intermediate Mediterranean group. Like Cypriots. I would not consider Cypriots white, but best believe a Cypriot (Greek, not Turkish) who moves to America would mirror the rest of the clearly white people and fit in. And the interesting thing is, Turkish Cypriots who are genetically similar to the Greek Cypriots would not be white and more identify with the brown peoples. Jews are basically Greek Cypriots. I think this is the perfect analogy. Because I think Cypriots have the same type of basal MENA as Western Jews.

There are also the elements of Ashkenazi Jews living in Slavic and Germanic lands so much absorbing some genetics and many lifeways, where their last names became similar to those people ending in "-berg" or "-ski" - their European existence is still relevant despite sticking out. An African American was literally a slave for centuries in America, but those guys are a Western population, not African.

Let's take Theodore Herzl, he was a Europeanist elitist type. He saw himself as the Germans and the French, not like the Palestinians. Whenever he spoke about MENA groups, it was like a white man speaking of them at that time. They were foreign to him, and that is how Ashkenazi Jews were: Europeans. That is the reason those colonialist Zionist Brits considered Jews to be a mediating projection of their imperialism, a buffer and representation of them in the "Orient." They were like "We cannot talk to these Arabs, but the Jews can, and Jews are like us." In that dichotomy, Jews lean in with the whites and away from the Arabs.

Now you might say, but what about the Sephardic, Mizrahi, etc. Well, they're Ashkenazified. When those people came to Israel, they were dominated by the ruling elites who were European Jews, and they had to homogenize themselves to that. That is why you see Jews who are Arab (let's be frank) now suddenly act like the ones who came from Poland. There was an assimilation process where the brown Jews had to Westernize, become less Arab, and literally just divorce themselves from their own cultures for a Western European group who is indistinguishable from "modernist" white, like Ashkenazi.

I'm not going to include how awkwardly MENA and Jews too classified as "white" in America (that would never happen here in Europe) because I understand that people fighting to be "white" category kind of would have given you higher access and success chances. Like how Isaaq wanted to be classified similar to the Indians in early colonial Kenya. This would have given them privileges in a hierarchical society. And this was later used against Somalis who were actually native to the land, where the Kenyans did not give them legal status, as the Isaaqs were classified as "other." That is just an example of how Somalis, such as the clan I belong to, took advantage of a colonial system to increase their prospects. These Isaaqs were technically elites financially, so it paid off. We were new to that region, unlike the Somalis of the NFD, and the anti-Somali sentiment among other groups who wanted to suppress the Somali growth and significance and self-determination, tried to spin the false notion that Somalis there were like the Isaaq newcomers, not native like the Indians. That is just an example.

To go back, a brown Jew then is a Westerner, he is homogenized like the Ashkenazi and would enjoy white privileges as an honorary individual in white majority countries, and would not be treated like an Arab.

Historically, this was not the case. Zionism homogenized Jews. Jews were very heterogeneous. Like a Jew from Iraq had more in common and would view a Jew from Lithuania in the 1800s to be very distinct from them. One is white, the other is Arab. Two culturally distinct peoples.

We have an example of how this shift happened. In Egypt, the Jews there were practically doing well (these people were integrated with the elite class), but during the WW2 era, Zionists from Israel influenced some people there, so some Egyptian Jews became Zionists while others were anti-Zionist and sided with Palestinians, and they were very pan-Arab. Since Jews were the elites there, many of them had cosmopolitan connections with Europe. So these guys were not localized. This led to people quickly learning about trends and siding quickly. Jews in Egypt were connected to Jews from other places, like Sham. For example, in the 10th century, there was a religious institution called the Palestinian Ganonate where Jews sort of centralized a commonality through religious mediation in a sub-regional way. So I would imagine a Syrian Jew and an Egyptian Jew would be similar in their ways.

So these Jews were often elites, educated, cosmpolitan, generally more aware and engaged with European matters and at some point they saw the West growing stronger, Israel popping up with the Zionist propaganda of holyland, then some friction with the Arab locals feeling rightfully some type of way of some of the demographic who were outwardly Zionist, being favored by colonialists and also expressing Western leaning lifeways and questioning their loyalty as they clearly were very elite, Western and often were growingly Western interacting with the Ashkenazis.

The Israeli European Jews who, in clandestine ways, had come to Egypt to speak of the Zionist ideology (this is true), with that sentiment growing, added that many Jews in Egypt were somewhat integrated with Europe, stoking a growing problem. A section of them were early Egyptian nationalists who were not Zionist, but they too had interests that aligned with the other side in terms of interests and ethnic entanglement, so over time, you had a sort of quiet betrayal of Jews over Arabs, going to Israel and/or to Western nations like America. These Jews became completely Western and removed their Egyptian affinity that had conditioned them for many centuries. So a random Egyptian coming across a guy of an Egyptian Jewish background from his grandparents would not relate on that end. His parents probably would not.

That is a short and patchy example of a complex situation that shows how brown Jews became Western and now would identify with a random white man rather than an Arab, despite having grandparents who lived in a Karaite or other neighboring quarter in Cairo.

As such, these brown people became Western and in Israel, not only Western but Ashkenazi Jewish expressing. You have a handful of Karaites in Israel. Those guys pray prostrating like Muslims, but they are considered like Amish, and their youth are joining the general Ashkenazi type of Jewry, which is the dominant.

Whenever I see a long post from you:

 

[NidarNidar]

Western Jews are not cadaans from Eastern Europe:





The ones you see in the West who just look cadaan and a tiny such minority in Israel are basically recent American or UK mixes. True AJs and SJs are pretty much a Mediterranean people.

These guys and the Roma (Gypsies) were fucked with by cadaans as much as they were historically precisely because the cadaans could tell them apart from the general population. Look at Gal Gadot and Mila Kunis. You can pick that out from your average Pole or German in a millisecond.

Mind you, none of this makes their occupation of Palestine okay. Just because you technically used to originally be from there (at least about half of their ancestry) doesn't mean you get to come back and displace the people who live there now and create an ethno-state that basically runs on an apartheid-like system. Israel is a shit-show and you won't hear me ever defend it or Zionists but these are not "white" people.

The founder effect basically, they drifted genetically from each other, but are still closer to each other than populations right next to them, due to religion and culture shielding them, like the Roma travelling from India through the Middle East and eventually into Europe.

 

[Shimbiris]

I agree with what you've said, although their true ancestry derived from their Jewish genetics is more like 30-35% with the rest being Levantine ancestry absorbed through other Eastern Mediterranean on the Greco-Roman side, post-migration.

I would say Ashkenazi Jews are similar to how Italians are white, and I would say Ashkenazi Jews are not white like how Sicilians are not white to me. In this case, Ashkenazi Jews, regardless of sticking out in some places, were also accepted by Apartheid South Africa as belonging to the white class. In America, the Jews historically enjoyed being white, and they do to this day since most of them look no darker than Italian Americans.

Although these racial classifications are different, Jews are definitely a Western people. Hands down, I would think it would be crazy to argue otherwise. The Jews are a sub-class of Western peoples. It was not always like this historically, because when they were under the Muslims, they were very MENA. And let's be real, there is a class thing. The reason why many consider Ashkenazis to be white is because of their socio-economic alignments. They're practically elites who have more in common with white elites than colored people. They assimilate easily.

In that sense, are Jews white by genetics? No. They're sort of a MENA shifting intermediate Mediterranean group. Like Cypriots. I would not consider Cypriots white, but best believe a Cypriot (Greek, not Turkish) who moves to America would mirror the rest of the clearly white people and fit in. And the interesting thing is, Turkish Cypriots who are genetically similar to the Greek Cypriots would not be white and more identify with the brown peoples. Jews are basically Greek Cypriots. I think this is the perfect analogy. Because I think Cypriots have the same type of basal MENA as Western Jews.

There are also the elements of Ashkenazi Jews living in Slavic and Germanic lands so much absorbing some genetics and many lifeways, where their last names became similar to those people ending in "-berg" or "-ski" - their European existence is still relevant despite sticking out. An African American was literally a slave for centuries in America, but those guys are a Western population, not African.

Let's take Theodore Herzl, he was a Europeanist elitist type. He saw himself as the Germans and the French, not like the Palestinians. Whenever he spoke about MENA groups, it was like a white man speaking of them at that time. They were foreign to him, and that is how Ashkenazi Jews were: Europeans. That is the reason those colonialist Zionist Brits considered Jews to be a mediating projection of their imperialism, a buffer and representation of them in the "Orient." They were like "We cannot talk to these Arabs, but the Jews can, and Jews are like us." In that dichotomy, Jews lean in with the whites and away from the Arabs.

Now you might say, but what about the Sephardic, Mizrahi, etc. Well, they're Ashkenazified. When those people came to Israel, they were dominated by the ruling elites who were European Jews, and they had to homogenize themselves to that. That is why you see Jews who are Arab (let's be frank) now suddenly act like the ones who came from Poland. There was an assimilation process where the brown Jews had to Westernize, become less Arab, and literally just divorce themselves from their own cultures for a Western European group who is indistinguishable from "modernist" white, like Ashkenazi.

I'm not going to include how awkwardly MENA and Jews too classified as "white" in America (that would never happen here in Europe) because I understand that people fighting to be "white" category kind of would have given you higher access and success chances. Like how Isaaq wanted to be classified similar to the Indians in early colonial Kenya. This would have given them privileges in a hierarchical society. And this was later used against Somalis who were actually native to the land, where the Kenyans did not give them legal status, as the Isaaqs were classified as "other." That is just an example of how Somalis, such as the clan I belong to, took advantage of a colonial system to increase their prospects. These Isaaqs were technically elites financially, so it paid off. We were new to that region, unlike the Somalis of the NFD, and the anti-Somali sentiment among other groups who wanted to suppress the Somali growth and significance and self-determination, tried to spin the false notion that Somalis there were like the Isaaq newcomers, not native like the Indians. That is just an example.

To go back, a brown Jew then is a Westerner, he is homogenized like the Ashkenazi and would enjoy white privileges as an honorary individual in white majority countries, and would not be treated like an Arab.

Historically, this was not the case. Zionism homogenized Jews. Jews were very heterogeneous. Like a Jew from Iraq had more in common and would view a Jew from Lithuania in the 1800s to be very distinct from them. One is white, the other is Arab. Two culturally distinct peoples.

We have an example of how this shift happened. In Egypt, the Jews there were practically doing well (these people were integrated with the elite class), but during the WW2 era, Zionists from Israel influenced some people there, so some Egyptian Jews became Zionists while others were anti-Zionist and sided with Palestinians, and they were very pan-Arab. Since Jews were the elites there, many of them had cosmopolitan connections with Europe. So these guys were not localized. This led to people quickly learning about trends and siding quickly. Jews in Egypt were connected to Jews from other places, like Sham. For example, in the 10th century, there was a religious institution called the Palestinian Ganonate where Jews sort of centralized a commonality through religious mediation in a sub-regional way. So I would imagine a Syrian Jew and an Egyptian Jew would be similar in their ways.

So these Jews were often elites, educated, cosmpolitan, generally more aware and engaged with European matters and at some point they saw the West growing stronger, Israel popping up with the Zionist propaganda of holyland, then some friction with the Arab locals feeling rightfully some type of way of some of the demographic who were outwardly Zionist, being favored by colonialists and also expressing Western leaning lifeways and questioning their loyalty as they clearly were very elite, Western and often were growingly Western interacting with the Ashkenazis.

The Israeli European Jews who, in clandestine ways, had come to Egypt to speak of the Zionist ideology (this is true), with that sentiment growing, added that many Jews in Egypt were somewhat integrated with Europe, stoking a growing problem. A section of them were early Egyptian nationalists who were not Zionist, but they too had interests that aligned with the other side in terms of interests and ethnic entanglement, so over time, you had a sort of quiet betrayal of Jews over Arabs, going to Israel and/or to Western nations like America. These Jews became completely Western and removed their Egyptian affinity that had conditioned them for many centuries. So a random Egyptian coming across a guy of an Egyptian Jewish background from his grandparents would not relate on that end. His parents probably would not.

That is a short and patchy example of a complex situation that shows how brown Jews became Western and now would identify with a random white man rather than an Arab, despite having grandparents who lived in a Karaite or other neighboring quarter in Cairo.

As such, these brown people became Western and in Israel, not only Western but Ashkenazi Jewish expressing. You have a handful of Karaites in Israel. Those guys pray prostrating like Muslims, but they are considered like Amish, and their youth are joining the general Ashkenazi type of Jewry, which is the dominant.

Excellent overall take. I'd just push back slightly on the extent of putative Jewish-Levantine ancestry. From what I’ve seen, their uniparental markers suggest it’s likely over 40%. They still appear majority MENA in both Y-DNA and mtDNA. E-M35, J, and G together account for over 70% of their paternal lineages. Even much of their Y-DNA R lineage is of the MENA-associated type, like R1b-Z1205, common across the Middle East. With that in mind, over 80% of Ashkenazi male-line lineages are basically of MENA origins. And the picture is similar mtDNA wise, if I recall correctly.

While they do show significant Italian admixture (which itself includes a lot of MENA ancestry), I think they—and their Phoenician cousins—may have been a major contributor to that gene flow into Italy in the first place, rather than most or all of it being from Greek colonists. So that and their uniparentals to me suggest that they, in the end, held on strongly to their original Levantine roots/ the original bottle-neck admixed group they descend from.

But you are otherwise completely correct about the cultural dynamics at play. These are very much "Europeanized" people. The same way the Roma would feel more of a cultural affinity for Romanians or Hungarians than any Indian, the Ashkhenazi Jew would feel more of a cultural affinity for a Pole than any Arab.

Though it really should not be ignored how still distinct they were culturally from mainstream Europeans, how the Europeans (particularly in the north) phenotypically picked them out, rammed them into ghettos, forbade them most professions (except some like money-lending) and mistreated them for centuries in large part because they looked like this:

 

[The alchemist]

Excellent overall take. I'd just push back slightly on the extent of putative Jewish-Levantine ancestry. From what I’ve seen, their uniparental markers suggest it’s likely over 40%. They still appear majority MENA in both Y-DNA and mtDNAl E-M35, J, and G together account for over 70% of their paternal lineages. Even much of their Y-DNA R lineage is of the MENA-associated type, like R1b-Z1205, common across the Middle East. With that in mind, over 80% of Ashkenazi male-line lineages are basically of MENA origins. And the picture is similar mtDNA wise, if I recall correctly.

While they do show significant Italian admixture (which itself includes a lot of MENA ancestry), I think they—and their Phoenician cousins—may have been a major contributor to that gene flow into Italy in the first place, rather than most or all of it being from Greek colonists. So with that, their uniparentals to me suggest they, in the end, held on strongly to their original Levantine roots.

But you are otherwise completely correct about the cultural dynamics at play. These are a "Europeanized" people. The same way the Roma would feel more of a cultural affinity for Romanians or Hungarians than any Indian, the Ashkhenazi Jew would feel more of a cultural affinity for a Pole than any Arab.

Though it really should not be ignored how still distinct they were culturally from Europeans, how the Europeans (particularly in the north) phenotypically picked them out, rammed them into ghettos, forbade them most professions (except some like money-lending) and mistreated them for centuries precisely because they looked like this:

I respectfully disagree. I think 30-35% is the Jewish-specific ancestry, while overall, they are 40-45% MENA in general. The Greco-Roman stuff takes away from that Levantine. The Greeks they mixed with were likely very MENA. They did not resemble modern Greeks but were likely those Pompeii samples. Greeks back then were heavy Eastern Mediterranean, likely getting a lot of Anatolian. I sort of don't consider uniparentals in this discussion, since how much of that is Levantine lineages from Punic background or something, or a pre-Roman Levantine influence in Greek regions, and the fact that they are heavy in founder effect. What I am saying is, I think 35% is a good number, and many of those nerd Jews in Anthrogenica were the ones that arrived at that number, by the way.

Really, their lineages are significant. It's impressive to retain that high MENA. Actually, I think half of their ancestry was Jewish or Levantine. The rest was all kinds of diverse stuff. Netanyahu a Scythian or maybe Khazar roots.

Many Jews in Europe were cosmopolitan. The living on the outskirts were more like medieval times. It's not a coincidence that many intellectuals and culture developers in Central Europe were Jews. They lived in the center of action, very urban, especially in the end, yet still retaining their ethnic cohesion. But Jewish quarters dubbed "ghettos" existed.

 

[The alchemist]

Excellent overall take. I'd just push back slightly on the extent of putative Jewish-Levantine ancestry. From what I’ve seen, their uniparental markers suggest it’s likely over 40%. They still appear majority MENA in both Y-DNA and mtDNA. E-M35, J, and G together account for over 70% of their paternal lineages. Even much of their Y-DNA R lineage is of the MENA-associated type, like R1b-Z1205, common across the Middle East. With that in mind, over 80% of Ashkenazi male-line lineages are basically of MENA origins. And the picture is similar mtDNA wise, if I recall correctly.

While they do show significant Italian admixture (which itself includes a lot of MENA ancestry), I think they—and their Phoenician cousins—may have been a major contributor to that gene flow into Italy in the first place, rather than most or all of it being from Greek colonists. So that and their uniparentals to me suggest that they, in the end, held on strongly to their original Levantine roots/ the original bottle-neck admixed group they descend from.

But you are otherwise completely correct about the cultural dynamics at play. These are very much "Europeanized" people. The same way the Roma would feel more of a cultural affinity for Romanians or Hungarians than any Indian, the Ashkhenazi Jew would feel more of a cultural affinity for a Pole than any Arab.

Though it really should not be ignored how still distinct they were culturally from mainstream Europeans, how the Europeans (particularly in the north) phenotypically picked them out, rammed them into ghettos, forbade them most professions (except some like money-lending) and mistreated them for centuries in large part because they looked like this:

Ayo, was this guy Yahuud LMAO

Thought he was a Western Arab hire in The Mummy. One of those Western Arabs who speak funky accents and somehow pray wrong in scenes but look the part and give the exotic Orientalist vibe.

Did you know that he played a Mejday?

 

[The alchemist]

Excellent overall take. I'd just push back slightly on the extent of putative Jewish-Levantine ancestry. From what I’ve seen, their uniparental markers suggest it’s likely over 40%. They still appear majority MENA in both Y-DNA and mtDNA. E-M35, J, and G together account for over 70% of their paternal lineages. Even much of their Y-DNA R lineage is of the MENA-associated type, like R1b-Z1205, common across the Middle East. With that in mind, over 80% of Ashkenazi male-line lineages are basically of MENA origins. And the picture is similar mtDNA wise, if I recall correctly.

While they do show significant Italian admixture (which itself includes a lot of MENA ancestry), I think they—and their Phoenician cousins—may have been a major contributor to that gene flow into Italy in the first place, rather than most or all of it being from Greek colonists. So that and their uniparentals to me suggest that they, in the end, held on strongly to their original Levantine roots/ the original bottle-neck admixed group they descend from.

But you are otherwise completely correct about the cultural dynamics at play. These are very much "Europeanized" people. The same way the Roma would feel more of a cultural affinity for Romanians or Hungarians than any Indian, the Ashkhenazi Jew would feel more of a cultural affinity for a Pole than any Arab.

Though it really should not be ignored how still distinct they were culturally from mainstream Europeans, how the Europeans (particularly in the north) phenotypically picked them out, rammed them into ghettos, forbade them most professions (except some like money-lending) and mistreated them for centuries in large part because they looked like this:

This guy was from The Scorpion. He looks hella Arab.

We have all seen plenty of guys who look like this. No wonder these guys got spies everywhere. They have phenotypic diversity. This guy could come to your backyard and play neighbor, and you would not know if he spoke good Arabic.

 

[Daisybilaawe]

Yes (short answer but tbh israel exists as a neo colonial state to manage the most important resource in the world).

most important resource? what is it?

 

[peterpeter]

most important resource? what is it?

oil

 

[Abdirazaq]

Western Jews are not cadaans from Eastern Europe:





The ones you see in the West who just look cadaan and a tiny such minority in Israel are basically recent American or UK mixes. True AJs and SJs are pretty much a Mediterranean people.

These guys and the Roma (Gypsies) were fucked with by cadaans as much as they were historically precisely because the cadaans could tell them apart from the general population. Look at Gal Gadot and Mila Kunis. You can pick that out from your average Pole or German in a millisecond.

Mind you, none of this makes their occupation of Palestine okay. Just because you technically used to originally be from there (at least about half of their ancestry) doesn't mean you get to come back and displace the people who live there now and create an ethno-state that basically runs on an apartheid-like system. Israel is a shit-show and you won't hear me ever defend it or Zionists but these are not "white" people.

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[Guure⁸]

I think Palestinians are far more likely to have ancient Jewish blood as well as DNA of others have lived in Palestine than Israeli yahuud. How can an Eastern European Jew, an Ethiopian Jew, a Yemeni Jew, an Indian Jew, and a Chinese Jew be the same ethnicity????
Because Yahuud claim to be an ethnicity or a race.

Jews were 12 tribes and they were kicked out of Palestine so they migrated to different countries and then mixed with the populations, that's why isreal loves the Ethiopians cause they believe a lost isreali tribe is from there and I'm not sure with Palestinians having Jewish dna

 

[The alchemist]

@Shimbiris @Daisybilaawe @NidarNidar

We have one sample of a Sephardic Jew in Palestine before the whole movement of Zionist Jews and the sample kind of look similar to Palestinian Christians:

That guy really was not significantly different from the average Palestinian, Levantine for that matter! Goes to show that the Jews in Palestine before the Zio-hegemon used to be distinct from the Jews in Europe and resembled the people they lived amongst.

I somehow replicated what I claimed on the first try:

This model is an almost perfect approximation. The Scythian sample is basically the affinity Jews had before they settled in Western Europe. This Scythian DNA is the Khazar affinity by the way. Khazarians would not be majority Asian but similar to Scythians of the western regions, who were mixed/heterogenous but also had higher West Asian than Asiatic.

And to show you how the Jews have similar Greek ancestry:

29%, again. I don't think this is a coincidence. That number appears in Turkish Jews as well. So my assumption here is that when these people lived in the Roman Empire, their pool had 29% Minoan-type Mediterranean ancestry, nothing more on average.

The Sephardic Jews from Italy and Turkey have higher MENA. It reaches 45%. These are, I think, legit because of the similar Greek numbers. Greek Jews got 50%. It looks like Iranian Jews strangely got 50% (if I am right, the distance is off).

Syrian Jews actually had the same number of Levantine ancestry as the Palestinian sample.

Sephardic Jews typically got 45% Greek Jews have 50%.

We have Erfurt samples that captures the earliest Ashkenazi foundereffect and the western Erfurt peoples who were the most genetically Jewish were basically similar to Sephardic samples.

Notice the 29% Greek, again.

Ashkenazis are basically inbetween a cline between western and eastern Erfurt. The latter got lower MENA concentration relative to the western samples.

Karaite Egyptian:

It seems that Egyptian, Palestinian and Syrian samples got considerable ancestry from Levant.

So here is the list of the highest Levantine ancestry among Jews. First this older Palestinian samples, then Syrian and Egyptian Jews. Then Iraqi Jews. Jews from Greece and Iran that have around 50% (not sure about the Iranian), then you have the long list of Sephardic Jews that are in the 45%.

Mountain Jews have something in the range of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish Levantine. These are not Roman-influenced.

These Cochin Paradesi Jews are highly mixed with various Jews which includes Yemeni Jews I think:

Palestinian Muslims are between 60-70%. The Jordanian Muslims are similar to them, with higher Arab.

 

[Shimbiris]

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@The alchemist I would disagree with you both that the overall Levantine ancestry in them is definitely over 50%. Even arguably as much as 60%. It's just dubious how much of that is actually Jewish and how much is Greco-Roman stuff that is also very Levant admixed.

And of course even if they were 92% Jewish Levantine and culturally just transplants from when Romans effed up the temple I'd still find modern day Israel unjustifiable. None of what I am saying is to make a political argument for Zionism. Fuark that.

 

[Shimbiris]

@Shimbiris @Daisybilaawe @NidarNidar

We have one sample of a Sephardic Jew in Palestine before the whole movement of Zionist Jews and the sample kind of look similar to Palestinian Christians:
View attachment 365572

View attachment 365573

That guy really was not significantly different from the average Palestinian, Levantine for that matter! Goes to show that the Jews in Palestine before the Zio-hegemon used to be distinct from the Jews in Europe and resembled the people they lived amongst.

I somehow replicated what I claimed on the first try:
View attachment 365574

This model is an almost perfect approximation. The Scythian sample is basically the affinity Jews had before they settled in Western Europe. This Scythian DNA is the Khazar affinity by the way. Khazarians would not be majority Asian but similar to Scythians of the western regions, who were mixed/heterogenous but also had higher West Asian than Asiatic.

And to show you how the Jews have similar Greek ancestry:

View attachment 365575

29%, again. I don't think this is a coincidence. That number appears in Turkish Jews as well. So my assumption here is that when these people lived in the Roman Empire, their pool had 29% Minoan-type Mediterranean ancestry, nothing more on average.

The Sephardic Jews from Italy and Turkey have higher MENA. It reaches 45%. These are, I think, legit because of the similar Greek numbers. Greek Jews got 50%. It looks like Iranian Jews strangely got 50% (if I am right, the distance is off).

Syrian Jews actually had the same number of Levantine ancestry as the Palestinian sample.
View attachment 365582

Sephardic Jews typically got 45% Greek Jews have 50%.

We have Erfurt samples that captures the earliest Ashkenazi foundereffect and the western Erfurt peoples who were the most genetically Jewish were basically similar to Sephardic samples.

View attachment 365584

Notice the 29% Greek, again.

Ashkenazis are basically inbetween a cline between western and eastern Erfurt. The latter got lower MENA concentration relative to the western samples.

Karaite Egyptian:
View attachment 365588

It seems that Egyptian, Palestinian and Syrian samples got considerable ancestry from Levant.

View attachment 365592

So here is the list of the highest Levantine ancestry among Jews. First this older Palestinian samples, then Syrian and Egyptian Jews. Then Iraqi Jews. Jews from Greece and Iran that have around 50% (not sure about the Iranian), then you have the long list of Sephardic Jews that are in the 45%.

Mountain Jews have something in the range of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish Levantine. These are not Roman-influenced.

These Cochin Paradesi Jews are highly mixed with various Jews which includes Yemeni Jews I think:View attachment 365593

Palestinian Muslims are between 60-70%. The Jordanian Muslims are similar to them, with higher Arab.

That Polish can't be real if it's showing up in the Sephardim, no? Sephardim have never been in Poland.

 

[The alchemist]

@The alchemist I would disagree with you both that the overall Levantine ancestry in them is definitely over 50%. Even arguably as much as 60%. It's just dubious how much of that is actually Jewish and how much is Greco-Roman stuff that is also very Levant admixed.

And of course even if they were 92% Jewish Levantine and culturally just transplants from when Romans effed up the temple I'd still find modern day Israel unjustifiable. None of what I am saying is to make a political argument for Zionism. Fuark that.

I disagree, man. I have modelled those guys before, and they barely cut the 50% at highest and usually were in the 45% range, where some 10% of that is non-Jewish. When you remove the Greek influence, the fit is increased heavily. You have to remember the MENA in Greek which is Anatolian (not only the Levant: edit for clarification). Ashkenazi, like the other Jews, have considerable Anatolian Neolithic affinity. These guys turned out to be higher Greek and lower European proper. In the past, these people tried to hyper-concentrate things into Central European genetics to section off European ancestry, and this enriched the Levant factor, but it is a false modelling. Remember, these guys lived many centuries among these Greco-Romans and somehow, across that Sephardi and Ashkenazi line, got the same Minoan levels, and these are supposedly from the same pool; it checks out.

 

[The alchemist]

That Polish can't be real if it's showing up in the Sephardim, no? Sephardim have never been in Poland.

The sample is kind of Germanic and Polish and reflects Slavic/Germanic/Nordic ancestry loosely, not based on accuracy. It's not about Polish-specific ancestry but high Steppe ancestry source, which even exists among Levantines. One needs it because that signal exists in the broader region, and Ashkenazis have minor but substantial Germanic or Slavic genetics, depending on their historic placements, and usually it is a mix.