INDEPENDENT PUNLAND-POLL & Discussion

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Tukraq

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Stop comparing Bosnia to Serbia, are they both slavs? Yes. but one Muslim the other is Christian. That isn't a clan difference, that's a religious difference. Have you noticed that Tribalism has always been our downfall.
Siad Barre killed thousands of Issaqs because "muh tribe". It wasn't sticking together that caused Somalia's downfall. It was tribalism, it's the thorn in a rose. I don't support Panafricanism, were to different and I don't care other African countries.
I brought up panafricanism because I agree with you, when it comes to Somalia were to different, and I don't care about the other regions, :samwelcome: tribal differences are also a bigger reason for a split than religious differences, we don't have a reason not to split:farmajoyaab: somalianization is bad compared to balkanization
 

A_A

Islamic Fanfiction Writer
Barre killed thousands of MJs too, it was more about him being a hunter gatherer than anything else. Besides it wasn’t the real reason, Somalia become a failed state... the real problems occurred after Barre was ousted.
Agreed, but he set off the disaster. I'm mad now, how is Nigeria more united than us?? The South is Ibo and Christian. the North is Hausa and Muslim. That's one big fat L.
 

Tukraq

VIP
Walaalo what I'm saying is that Somalis karbaashed each other into this mess, so now they need to be karbaashed into shape. Kenya, a bunch of unrelated tribes who have different cultures and ethnicites are better than us? I won't take anymore ceeb.
Kenya didn't have a civil war:faysalwtf: but if they did there options would be balkanization or somalianization and due to learning their lesson being our neighbors they would probably Balkanize
 

A_A

Islamic Fanfiction Writer
I will slap national pride into @Farm and @Tukraq
Believe in your motherland, no nation stays in Civil war forever. No great nation is a one lonely state, they have been combination of many states. Believe!
 

A_A

Islamic Fanfiction Writer
Kenya didn't have a civil war:faysalwtf: but if they did there options would be balkanization or somalianization and due to learning their lesson being our neighbors they would probably Balkanize
Exactly! Why haven't they fallen apart? They have even more reasons to, but they don't.
Why is that?
 

Tukraq

VIP
Exactly! Why haven't they fallen apart? They have even more reasons to, but they don't.
Why is that?
they don't have more reason to:faysalwtf: were literally enemy warring tribes their neutral non combative tribes who don't hate one another:mahubowtf: you would only have this misconception if you were fed the somalinimo propaganda even though before colonization we were separate enemy tribal states:farmajoyaab:
 

A_A

Islamic Fanfiction Writer
they don't have more reason to:faysalwtf: were literally enemy warring tribes their neutral non combative tribes who don't hate one another:mahubowtf: you would only have this misconception if you were fed the somalinimo propaganda even though before colonization we were separate enemy tribal states:farmajoyaab:
What I mean is that we have less of a reason to fight one another. If you dislike my Kenyan example then look at Nigeria. The idea of fighting each other for the sake of your clan is dumb. Yes, before we were colonized, were we separated. Look at other nation that successfully fought off colonization. Were they united or separated? Rule #1 of warfare, divide your enemies.
You know how France and Italy colonized us? By uniting and taking advantage of small kingdoms.
Yes, before colonization we were divided, happy?
Somalia has always been divided, how has that worked for us?
We've always been divided, great! So please show me the fruits of this.
Did our ancestors create grand empires? Oh , they created small kingdoms, well ok.
Have they created inventors, artists, and great men? maybe a few, but they all have sommethin in common, the supported unity. Or tried to expand.
Somalia has always been divided, wonderful!
 

Tukraq

VIP
What I mean is that we have less of a reason to fight one another. If you dislike my Kenyan example then look at Nigeria. The idea of fighting each other for the sake of your clan is dumb. Yes, before we were colonized, were we separated. Look at other nation that successfully fought off colonization. Were they united or separated? Rule #1 of warfare, divide your enemies.
You know how France and Italy colonized us? By uniting and taking advantage of small kingdoms.
Yes, before colonization we were divided, happy?
Somalia has always been divided, how has that worked for us?
We've always been divided, great! So please show me the fruits of this.
Did our ancestors create grand empires? Oh , they created small kingdoms, well ok.
Have they created inventors, artists, and great men? maybe a few, but they all have sommethin in common, the supported unity. Or tried to expand.
Somalia has always been divided, wonderful!
our ancestors didn't support unity lol quit trying to rewrite history:farmajoyaab:
you keep talking like unity is good or something, most of the time small independent ethnocentric countries do better than a wide monolith country that adds everyone together and various tribes lol, you give the example of Nigeria well if were all Somali their all bantu, basically just different tribes so how are they more split than us:mahubowtf: like I said before if you believe the were stronger together nonsense and think great empires like mijartenia were just "small kingdoms" well even Somaliweyne is small you shouldn't stop there and go further into advocating for afrocentrism
then you would be united and bigger and all that bullshit
 

A_A

Islamic Fanfiction Writer
our ancestors didn't support unity lol quit trying to rewrite history:farmajoyaab:
you keep talking like unity is good or something, most of the time small independent ethnocentric countries do better than a wide monolith country that adds everyone together and various tribes lol, you give the example of Nigeria well if were all Somali their all bantu, basically just different tribes so how are they more split than us:mahubowtf: like I said before if you believe the were stronger together nonsense and think great empires like mijartenia were just "small kingdoms" well even Somaliweyne is small you shouldn't stop there and go further into advocating for afrocentrism
then you would be united and bigger and all that bullshit
I didn't say our ancestors supported unity, the opposite in fact.
Tukraq, did the MJ have recorded battles, and history recorded at all? Any palaces, and great structures? Any literature written, epics? How was their legal system?
"great" is a stretch. Rome was great, the Safavid were great.
btw North Nigeria and Southern Nigeria are very different.
Show me the fruits of centuries of division. I'm waiting.
 

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balkans are better apart then together, Yugoslavia would be trash and a horribly run split unfair country with ethnic tensions, ask the people living there like @Molotoff they have a lot of pride in and would rather be Serbian or Bosnian than fucking Yugoslav :farmajoyaab:, just look at you favorite country India :dabcasar: imagine if it was still connected to Pakistan :shookgabre: it would be a million times more dysfunctional and their would be several civil wars between the two populations,
stronger together is a myth
:comeon:


SURAH ALI IMRAN

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.


And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful.



And do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.



On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."



https://quran.com/3/103-113?translations=20

:sass2:
 

Tukraq

VIP
I didn't say our ancestors supported unity, the opposite in fact.
Tukraq, did the MJ have recorded battles, and history recorded at all? Any palaces, and great structures? Any literature written, epics? How was their legal system?
"great" is a stretch. Rome was great, the Safavid were great.
btw North Nigeria and Southern Nigeria are very different.
Show me the fruits of centuries of division. I'm waiting.
if Rome was so great you should support the modern day Rome in afrocentrism were a continent comes together:siilaanyosmile: truth is Rome was horrible for 90 percent of those under it:farmajoyaab: fruits of division is self governance and freedom from being marginalized by rival tribes and peoples:mahubowtf: north Nigeria(bantu) and south Nigeria(bantu) are more similar than north and south Somalia :gaasdrink: one is peaceful one is a war zone
 

Tukraq

VIP
:comeon:


SURAH ALI IMRAN

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.


And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful.



And do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.



On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."



https://quran.com/3/103-113?translations=20

:sass2:
its talking religion wise, were talking being separate countries not separate religions
 

Cognitivedissonance

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its talking religion wise, were talking being separate countries not separate religions
Islam is more than a religion, its a complete way of life, to be a Muslim one must surrender and submit his/her will to the true will of the most wise.

Allah commands us muslims his slaves to remain united and not to cause disunity between Muslims.
 

Tukraq

VIP
Islam is more than a religion, its a way of life, to be a Muslim one must surrender and submit their will to the true will of the most wise.
that verse was specifically talking about religious sects not nation states, khulifa arrashideen Ali had a separate state from the famous sahaba Muawiyah, so its halal to have different countries, just not different sects:manny:
 

Cognitivedissonance

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that verse was specifically talking about religious sects not nation states, khulifa arrashideen Ali had a separate state from the famous sahaba Muawiyah, so its halal to have different countries, just not different sects:manny:

Al-Nu’man ibn Bashir reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 5665, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586


:kanyehmm:
 

Cognitivedissonance

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@Tukraq dont despair soon somaliland will declare its no longer a Muslim country to gain citiraaf then I am all for separating from the gaalo state of somaliland
 

Tukraq

VIP
Al-Nu’man ibn Bashir reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 5665, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586


:kanyehmm:
im telling you how in islam, having different states are allowed by historical evidence of different states at the same time under the sahaba and rightly guided caliphs, but your quoting Surahs and hadiths that have little to do with this,
what does having affection for one another as muslims have to do with building separate states:farmajoyaab: I can have love for my brother in Pakistan and my heart can ache for a brother in Palestine, that docent mean or imply we should have the same country:mahubowtf:
 

Cognitivedissonance

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im telling you how in islam, having different states are allowed by historical evidence of different states at the same time under the sahaba and rightly guided caliphs, but your quoting Surahs and hadiths that have little to do with this,
what does having affection for one another as muslims have to do with building separate states:farmajoyaab: I can have love for my brother in Pakistan and my heart can ache for a brother in Palestine, that docent mean or imply we should have the same country:mahubowtf:
Why do you hate other Muslims so much so that you don’t want to be associated with them? Do you believe all Muslims are terrorists?
 

Tukraq

VIP
Why do you hate other Muslims so much so that you don’t want to be associated with them? Do you believe all Muslims are terrorists?
did Ali hate muslims in syria so much that he didn't want to be associated with them or muawiyah hate busra? no
differences in interpretation and plans for leadership are allowed that docent mean we hate each other, we should also be allowed self governance
 
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