Ibn Battuta's favorite city in East Africa was Mogadishu, and his most disliked city was Zeila.

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

This line is more of an interest, as it makes Shi'a reference, albeit the term was also used to describe people who refused Caliphates. I do not recall reading Shi'a presence in Zeila, or in So.
وأﻛﺜﺮﻫﻢ راﻓﻀﺔ

 

[killerxsmoke]

You actually contradicted yourself. Barbara was never used to describe negros by the Arabs. The word zinj was used to describe negros by Arabs. The description of Ibn Battuta could very well describe other communities that once inhabited the coast of Zeila or further inland.

It's intellectually dishonest for you to assert that it's unquestionably referring to Somalis. There is no credible academic source to show that Somali Shias once existed in the north or in the domain of the kingdom of Ifat.

So tell me who are the Barbara then

 

[killerxsmoke]

This line is more of an interest, as it makes Shi'a reference, albeit the term was also used to describe people who refused Caliphates. I do not recall reading Shi'a presence in Zeila, or in So.
وأﻛﺜﺮﻫﻢ راﻓﻀﺔ

What kind of presence do u want to find their exactly

 

[techsamatar]

Ibn Battuta's most disliked city was Zeila. He described the city as one of the dirtiest, most desolate, and smelliest towns in the world. To avoid the smell, Battuta spent the nights on his ship, even though the water was rough. He was glad to get out of Zeila.

He described the inhabitants as “Barbara,” Muslim blacks who were followers of the Imam al-Shafi'i, although Battuta notes that the majority were rejectors. I am not sure if the sultan of Ifat Sabr Ad Din had any interaction with Ibn Battuta or if he invited him to his palace like the Sultan of Mogadishu.

"“Barbara,” Muslim blacks

I assure you, he did not encounter Banadiris but rather ethnic Somalis. There's no way he would have referred to them as blacks.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Dont lie lol he didn't say the people speak arabic he only said the sultan knows Arabic as his second language.

Again, we are talking about the Suldan, and here is the text, and I underlined it for you.

وﺳﻠﻄﺎن ﻣﻘﺪﺷﻮ ﻛﻤﺎ ذﻛﺮﻧﺎه إﻧﻤﺎ ﻳﻘﻮﻟﻮن ﻟﻪ اﻟﺸﻴﺦ، واﺳﻤﻪ أﺑﻮ ﺑﻜﺮ اﺑﻦ اﻟﺸﻴﺦ ﻋﻤﺮ، وﻫﻮ في اﻷﺻﻞ ﻣﻦ اﻟبرﺑﺮة، وﻛﻼﻣﻪ ﺑﺎمﻘﺪشي وﻳَﻌْﺮِف اﻟﻠﺴﺎن اﻟﻌﺮﺑﻲ​

 

[killerxsmoke]

Again, we are talking about the Suldan, and here is the text, and I underlined it for you.

وﺳﻠﻄﺎن ﻣﻘﺪﺷﻮ ﻛﻤﺎ ذﻛﺮﻧﺎه إﻧﻤﺎ ﻳﻘﻮﻟﻮن ﻟﻪ اﻟﺸﻴﺦ، واﺳﻤﻪ أﺑﻮ ﺑﻜﺮ اﺑﻦ اﻟﺸﻴﺦ ﻋﻤﺮ، وﻫﻮ في اﻷﺻﻞ ﻣﻦ اﻟبرﺑﺮة، وﻛﻼﻣﻪ ﺑﺎمﻘﺪشي وﻳَﻌْﺮِف اﻟﻠﺴﺎن اﻟﻌﺮﺑﻲ​

Your own words lol
"ibn Battuta noted locals spoke a language other than Arabic, but did speak Arabic"

 

[killerxsmoke]

Again, we are talking about the Suldan, and here is the text, and I underlined it for you.

وﺳﻠﻄﺎن ﻣﻘﺪﺷﻮ ﻛﻤﺎ ذﻛﺮﻧﺎه إﻧﻤﺎ ﻳﻘﻮﻟﻮن ﻟﻪ اﻟﺸﻴﺦ، واﺳﻤﻪ أﺑﻮ ﺑﻜﺮ اﺑﻦ اﻟﺸﻴﺦ ﻋﻤﺮ، وﻫﻮ في اﻷﺻﻞ ﻣﻦ اﻟبرﺑﺮة، وﻛﻼﻣﻪ ﺑﺎمﻘﺪشي وﻳَﻌْﺮِف اﻟﻠﺴﺎن اﻟﻌﺮﺑﻲ​

And? There are many somalis that speak arabic as their second language

 

[Yami]

19th century british sources claim Zeila was under Arab rule until Haji SharmarkeView attachment 307840

Saylac went under Ottoman control as the Habesh Elayet right after the Adal Sultanate collapsed. The successors of Adal, the Aussa Imamate, sold their coast to the Turks & decided to colonize the Danakil depression. They were later xooged by migrating Canfaris.

Before the collapse it was under native rule. Nobody else but Somalis could've been the Berberi people in that area of the horn

 

[Yami]

I'm starting to get really tired of the historical revisionism on this site. Argue all you want about the Dhegacas in koonfur, at least there's an actual ajnabi community there to support you claims, but openly spreading misinformation about northern history when we know the only groups who built anything in Somaliland Puntland & Hararghe were native black Somalis and the ancestors of various Oromo clans that language shifted from their original tounge? Xishood ma haysto? Stop crediting ajnabis for the civilization our ancestors built from the ground up.

 

[Three Moons]

Ibn Battuta arrived in Zayla only a century after the collapse of the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, and dinars from the latter empire have been found in different parts of East Africa, which even influenced some of the patterns of Mogadishu’s coinage. I wonder if Zayla as a city with a lot of Red Sea trade to Egypt didn’t get influenced by them too during the Fatimid period, and over time with the switch to Sunni world powers, the local Shias were absorbed by the Sunnis.

If Mogadishu had an Egyptian Qadi when Ibn Battuta was there, it makes sense that Zayla was also frequented by Egyptian scholars too, including Shia ones. I used to think Rafida was a possible reference to our Sufis, but Ibn Battuta had a complimentary view of Sufis in general and its unlikely that he would refer to them as ‘rejectors’.

I do love how both Mogadishu and Zayla’s populations were unmistakably camel herders and of the same stock of people despite the vast distance between them just like the Somali people today. The only other dark skinned groups to maintain camel populations at the time were the ancestors of the Afars and the Bejas, two groups whose homelands were nowhere near these cities. And as I pointed out before in a different thread, its also telling that Ibn Battuta always mentioned the backgrounds of every Arab, Turk, Indian and Persian historical figure he came across in his travels but never referred to the populations or historical figures in medieval Somalia by any of the aforementioned terms, but went out of his way to highlight their local origins, even when he encountered them on other continents.

The exception being the Egyptian Qadi, yet if the Mogadishan Sultan was also an Arab or a Persian and the Zaylans were indeed BanuSteven from Yemen or Oman or India or whatever ethnicity cope is used to erase the ancestors of the Somali people, why wouldn’t he mention their backgrounds or lineage like he did with the others? Did the Persian, and Arab populations play hide and seek with this world traveller during his extensive stay at Zayla and Mogadishu? Afraid he might blow their witness protection cover to their cousins in Arabia and Persia to whom they still owed money or justice? LOL.

If you’re trying to deny the Somali people their rich history, you must pretend that the term ‘Barbar’ was not a reference to the ancestors of the Somali people, which no respectable scholar supports. You must pretend that a mythological figure like Samaale is the cut off point of the ethnogenesis of the Somali people, which is contradicted by genetics and anthropology. You must pretend a different native group spanned from Zeila to Mogadishu, but then suffered a medieval holocaust at the hands of Somali groups, of which is there is no evidence, even the bankrupt ‘Galla’ hypothesis is just a reference to the Somalid groups that hadn’t been converted yet by Muslim Somalid groups.

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

"...reached Zayla, the town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw."

Ibn Battuta did not say that the people of Zaila
( Saylac ) were Negroes ( الزنوج ) .

Ibn Battuta (and Muslim travelers in general) distinguished between Abyssinians ( الأحباش ) ,
the black Berbers ( البرابرة السودان ) and Negroes ( الزنوج ) .

Ibn Battuta said that the people of Zaila
( Saylac ) are ( Berbers, and they are a sect from Sudan of the Shafi’i school of thought ) .

He said that the people of Zaila ( Saylac ) are from the ( Berbers of Sudan
" البرابرة، وهم طائفة من السودان ”
so that he can distinguish between the “ White Berbers of North Africa,” who are white and the Berbers of Sudan " البربر السودان " in Somalia, who are black ,
( The people of Zaila’ are black in color
" وأهل زيلع سود الألوان" ) .

(Sudan السودان) means black in color,
( Al-Baydan البيضان ) means white in color.

For your information, the traveler Ibn Battuta is a North African Berber from Morocco.

وسافرت من مدينة عدن في البحر أربعة أيام، ووصلت إلى مدينة زيلع، وهي مدينة البرابرة، وهم طائفة من السودان شافعية المذهب، وبلادهم صحراء مسيرة شهرين. أولها زيلع، وآخرها مقدشو. ومواشيهم الجمال، وهي أغنام مشهورة السمن. وأهل زيلع سود الألوان، وأكثرهم رافضة.

When Ibn Battuta described the people of Zaila, he said about them and “Zila”:

(I arrived at the city of Zaila , which is the city of the Berbers . They are a Shafi’i sect from Sudan, and their country is a desert two months’ journey. The first of them is Zaila’, and the last of them is Maqdishu. Their livestock are camels, and they are sheep famous for their fatness. The people of Zaila’ are black in color, and most of them are Rafidites.)​

 

[Al Adnani]

Saylac went under Ottoman control as the Habesh Elayet right after the Adal Sultanate collapsed. The successors of Adal, the Aussa Imamate, sold their coast to the Turks & decided to colonize the Danakil depression. They were later xooged by migrating Canfaris.

View attachment 307866


Before the collapse it was under native rule. Nobody else but Somalis could've been the Berberi people in that area of the horn

There were more Afar rulers in Zeila than Somali. I can say wallahi

 

[attash]

You actually contradicted yourself. Barbara was never used to describe negros by the Arabs. The word zinj was used to describe negros by Arabs.

By "negro", I meant "dark-skinned". The actual word Ibn Battuta used was سود, which means “black” or “dark-skinned”. Some authors have chosen to translate this as “negro”, as the literal meaning of “negro” is “black”, same as سود. The Arabic word زنجي was used to describe the blacks of southeast Africa. It was not used to describe other blacks, such as the blacks of west Africa, who were also described as سود. Regardless, all of this is just semantics, you know what I meant.

The description of Ibn Battuta could very well describe other communities that once inhabited the coast of Zeila or further inland.

It's intellectually dishonest for you to assert that it's unquestionably referring to Somalis. There is no credible academic source to show that Somali Shias once existed in the north or in the domain of the kingdom of Ifat.

What other communities could this description have applied to? Please, name just ONE. Please.

Hararis? Argobba? Oromos? Bantus? Arabs? Afars? Stop avoiding the question and just name ONE group for us.

 

[attash]

Okay, name the Somali rulers and their clans that controlled Zeila before the 19th century. I already named the Arab tribes that inhabited Zeila, and they are well documented in the Book of Aqeeliyoon. Hussein Al Zaylici, which is a subclan of the Banu Aqeel, Makhzumi, and Mawyanni, controlled Zeila.

The books say that these tribes lived in Zeila. Where is the evidence that these tribes ruled Zeila? Give us a direct quote.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Where does it say 'negro'? Here is the original text.

ووﺻﻠﺖ إلى ﻣﺪﻳﻨﺔ زﻳﻠﻊ وﻫﻲ ﻣﺪﻳﻨﺔ اﻟبرﺑﺮة، وﻫﻢ ﻃﺎﺋﻔﺔ ﻣﻦ اﻟﺴﻮدان ﺷﺎﻓﻌﻴﺔ املﺬﻫﺐ، وﺑﻼدﻫﻢ ﺻﺤﺮاء ﻣﺴرية ﺷﻬﺮﻳﻦ أوﻟﻬﺎ زﻳﻠﻊ وآﺧﺮﻫﺎ ﻣﻘﺪﺷﻮ، وﻣﻮاﺷﻴﻬﻢ اﻟﺠِﻤﺎل وﻟﻬﻢ أﻏﻨﺎم ﻣﺸﻬﻮرة اﻟﺴﻤﻦ، وأﻫﻞ زﻳﻠﻊ ﺳﻮد اﻷﻟﻮان وأﻛﺜﺮﻫﻢ راﻓﻀﺔ، وﻫﻲ ﻣﺪﻳﻨﺔ ﻛﺒرية ﻟﻬﺎ ﺳﻮق ﻋﻈﻴﻤﺔ، إﻻ أﻧﻬﺎ أَﻗْﺬَر ﻣﺪﻳﻨﺔ في المﻌﻤﻮر وأوﺣﺸﻬﺎ وأﻛﺜﺮﻫﺎ ﻧﺘﻨًﺎ، وﺳﺒﺐ ﻧَﺘَﻨِﻬﺎ ﻛﺜﺮة ﺳﻤﻜﻬﺎ ودﻣﺎء اﻹﺑﻞ اﻟﺘﻲ ﻳﻨﺤﺮوﻧﻬﺎ في اﻷزﻗﺔ
​

Here are the Arabic version, and

https://www.arab-books.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/D8B1D8ADD984D8A9D8A7D8A8D986D8A8D8B7D988D8B7D8A9.pdf

the translated English version.
https://web2.qatar.cmu.edu/~breilly2/odyssey/Ibn Batuta.pdf

.​

That's really shocking to me to find out that reer Saylac were raifdis and Ibn Battuta was hardcore sunnist kkk

 

[Haragwaafi]

I linked up the translated English version for better reading. The Arabic word for 'negro' is ' زنجي '.

Translation is ' People of Zeila are dark in colour'

'
وأﻫﻞ زﻳﻠﻊ ﺳﻮد اﻷﻟﻮان
'​

Here is the relevant excerpt:
'The inhabitants are modest and religious. I then went from Aden by sea, and after four days came to the city of Zaila. This is a city of the Berbers, a people of Sudan, of the Shafia sect. Their country is a desert of two months’ extent. The first part is termed Zaila, the last Makdashu [Mogadishu?]. The greatest part of the inhabitants of Zaila, however, are of the Rafiza sect. Their food is, for the most part, camel's flesh and fish. The stench of the country is extreme, as is also its filth, from the stink of the fish, and the blood of camels which are slaughtered in its streets. I then proceeded by sea for fifteen days, and came to Makdashu, which is an exceedingly large city. '

Direct translation of Negro in Arabic would be السودان

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

That's really shocking to me to find out that reer Saylac were raifdis and Ibn Battuta was hardcore sunnist kkk

I thought you would have found the following more shocking: chewing betel leaves and areca, a known stimuli. Was this khat? Or were they chewing tobacco?

ﻓﺒَﻠﱠﻎ َﺛﻢ ﻋﺎد وأﺗﻰ ﺑﻄﺒﻖ ﻣﻦ أوراق اﻟﺘﻨﺒﻮل واﻟﻔﻮﻓﻞ ﻓﺄﻋﻄﺎﻧﻲ ﻋشرة أوراق
ﻣﻊ ﻗﻠﻴﻞ ﻣﻦ اﻟﻔﻮﻓﻞ وأﻋﻄﻰ ﻟﻠﻘﺎضي ﻛﺬﻟﻚ وأﻋﻄﻰ ﻷﺻﺤﺎﺑﻲ وﻟﻄﻠﺒﺔ اﻟﻘﺎضي ﻣﺎ ﺑﻘﻲ في اﻟﻄﺒﻖ وﺟﺎء ﺑﻘﻤﻘﻢ ﻣﻦ ﻣﺎء اﻟﻮرد اﻟﺪﻣﺸﻘﻲ ​

 

[Haragwaafi]

I thought you would have found the following more shocking: chewing betel leaves and areca, a known stimuli. Was this khat? Or were they chewing tobacco?

ﻓﺒَﻠﱠﻎ َﺛﻢ ﻋﺎد وأﺗﻰ ﺑﻄﺒﻖ ﻣﻦ أوراق اﻟﺘﻨﺒﻮل واﻟﻔﻮﻓﻞ ﻓﺄﻋﻄﺎﻧﻲ ﻋشرة أوراق
ﻣﻊ ﻗﻠﻴﻞ ﻣﻦ اﻟﻔﻮﻓﻞ وأﻋﻄﻰ ﻟﻠﻘﺎضي ﻛﺬﻟﻚ وأﻋﻄﻰ ﻷﺻﺤﺎﺑﻲ وﻟﻄﻠﺒﺔ اﻟﻘﺎضي ﻣﺎ ﺑﻘﻲ في اﻟﻄﺒﻖ وﺟﺎء ﺑﻘﻤﻘﻢ ﻣﻦ ﻣﺎء اﻟﻮرد اﻟﺪﻣﺸﻘﻲ ​

Maybe it was Khat

 

[Almis]

Direct translation of Negro in Arabic would be السودان

No its not!
ياخي اذا ماتعرف عربي لاتفتي
Have you heard of ثوره الزنج
Why wasn't it called ثوره السودان if it had the same meaning?

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

No its not!
ياخي اذا ماتعرف عربي لاتفتي
Have you heard of ثوره الزنج
Why wasn't it called ثوره السودان if it had the same meaning?

What you wrote is 100% correct.

وسافرت من مدينة عدن في البحر أربعة أيام ووصلت إلى مدينة زيلع وهي مدينة البرابرة وهم طائفة من السودان شافعية المذهب وبلادهم صحراء مسيرة شهرين. أولها زيلع وآخرها مقدشو.

ثم سافرنا منها في البحر خمس عشرة ليلة ووصلنا مَقَدَشُو١ وهي مدينة متناهية في الكبر

وكان سلطان مقدشو كما ذكرناه إنما يقولون له الشيخ واسمه أبو بكر بن الشيخ عمر وهو في الأصل من البرابرة وكلامه بالمقدشي ويعرف اللسان العربي

ثم ركبت من مدينة مقدشو متوجها إلى بلاد السواحل قاصدا مدينة كُلْوَ١ من بلاد الزنوج فوصلنا إلى
جزيرة مَنْبِسَى ( مومباسا )

وركبنا البحر إلى مدينة كُلْوا وهي مدينة عظيمة ساحلية أكثر أهلها الزنوج المستحكمو السواد.

End quote
Can you explain it to your brothers and sisters? ​