I wish somalis were more liberal instead of religious

[Kaafiye]

Notice how it's the Atheist Somalis who are the ones with the most vested interest in keeping Islam out of public life in Somalia. These people are godless and would like nothing more than having the rest of Somalia be godless as well.

 

[SomaliSpotter]

 

[Kaafiye]

VicePrez is desperately trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Most Somalis want nothing to do with your godless agenda. Face it.

 

[Gambit]

I don't promote alcoholism or hoeing around. I don't agree with people who do it. But I don't want to punish them for that. I promote individual freedom as long as it's not hurting anybody else. Yeah I know alcohol cause irresponsible driving and deaths sometimes but that's why there are laws against that.

Sharia law is not compatible with individual liberty. Most Somalis are Muslims but they don't want to live in a theocratic dogmatic state where every step they take is judged by the religious police.

As long as it's done behind closed doors I don't mind what people do. This way it wont have an influence on the the younger generations that look up to and immitate the olders. An example is the teaching of sexual topics to kids in Canada. There was a thread here on it a while ago, they wish to teach kids about transgender and gay shit. Why? So it becomes the norm. This is why Russia is so against homosexuality in public, because they know it'll cause an increase the number of puffs which they're clearly against.

Kids are empty vessels that are filled up by their surroundings and life experiences. If we want to raise decent Muslim Somali kids we should raise them in a good Islamic environment.

 

[Bielsa]

As long as it's done behind closed doors I don't mind what people do. This way it wont have an influence on the the younger generations that look up to and immitate the olders. An example is the teaching of sexual topics to kids in Canada. There was a thread here on it a while ago, they wish to teach kids about transgender and gay shit. Why? So it becomes the norm. This is why Russia is so against homosexuality in public, because they know it'll cause an increase the number of puffs which they're clearly against.

Kids are empty vessels that are filled up by their surroundings and life experiences. If we want to raise decent Muslim Somali kids we should raise them in a good Islamic environment.

The problem with the case you mentioned was that the kids were too young. If schools don't want to teach sex ed that's fine. It's up to each school district. I don't want the government involved in local affairs.

Good decent Muslims? You think living in a totalitarian theocratic state will raise good Muslim kids? Come on dude.

 

[Solid]

Vice Prez is missing the ball, as is everyone advocating for liberalism. The ideology itself is too contradictory, and unaware of its own assumptions on things like morality etc.

 

[Bielsa]

VicePrez is desperately trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Most Somalis want nothing to do with your godless agenda. Face it.

Most Somalis don't want to live in a theocratic totalitarian state where every move they make is judged by the religious police.

As I said earlier, many Somalis like to sing and dance., and not wear hijab, and freely mix with opposite gender etc but in your radical idea of society all those Muslims would be punished.

Don't impose your radicalism and fundamentalism on Somalis.

 

[Bielsa]

Vice Prez is missing the ball, as is everyone advocating for liberalism. The ideology itself is too contradictory, and unaware of its own assumptions on things like morality etc.

What's the alternative? Sharia law?

 

[Gambit]

The problem with the case you mentioned was that the kids were too young. If schools don't want to teach sex ed that's fine. It's up to each school district. I don't want the government involved in local affairs.

Good decent Muslims? You think living in a totalitarian theocratic state will raise good Muslim kids? Come on dude.

A totalitarian theocratic state will never work because of human nature. But I'm saying we need to have an Islamic influence in our lives and that should come from society itself.

 

[Bielsa]

This was Somalia back in the days. A Somali women's basketball team. Now we have radicals who would punish these women for this.

 

[Bielsa]

A totalitarian theocratic state will never work because of human nature. But I'm saying we need to have an Islamic influence in our lives and that should come from society itself.

I disagree but even if so it shouldn't come from the government. If people want to promote Islamic values then I support that 100%.... as long as you guys support others promoting secularism in the market place of ideas. If Islam is so right then surely it will defeat any other idea.

 

[Freebandz]

Do you think if we in somalia seperate religion and state and adopt a more western orientated mode of modernization
we would have a better chance of stability

No Somalias problem is clans and religion

Of course. Higher likelihood. Virtually all but a very few religious countries are unstable and poorer I must add than secular countries.

The ones that are stable have resources. But even many with resources are still unstable. But once that is gone, these stable religious countries will go to shit.

Secularism is key to stability

Yet another false statement ultra religious countries like the gulf countries are very safe

That's fucking ridiculous. Our problems have never had anything to do with religion. Why is religion what you decide to focus on when it is about the only factor that has, until very recently, been a non-issue?

We would have stability if we addressed corruption, focused on infrastructure, etc, etc, etc. Religion is a non-issue for Somalia. Move on.

Religion is very much an issue especially those that use it for politics

Are you even somali?

Nearly every Muslim country that is/was secular is now being punished with extremism and is in total anarchy and war. Hell even Russia is dealing with far right orthodox extremists.

I believe we should have a middle ground with religion playing a minor role in politics. Most western countries are far from truly secular. We are dealing with the painful consequences of stifling freedom of religion and speech. Let's not do it again.

Yet another dumbass statement if we include somalia there are only 3 2 of them caused by the us unless you think the American government is god it has nothing to do with god

How come AJ's twin, Kaafiye, hasn't commented on this thread yet?

And to answer the question, only a system like liberalism (secularism) can work in Somalia. Religion & 4.5 systems failed and should never be mixed with any future governments. Stuff like that has no place in the modern world and we can see real life examples of what such systems could produce in certain countries right now.

Yet another shitty statementWhen has the 4.5 system failedMost of you who hate this 4.5 thing always have a clan agenda behind it

Bruh I've seen secularist skinnies here in my city. They are out numbered like crazy. Their only hope is to stay in the west cause Somalia will never be a secular state.

Somalia ilaa hada fitnada haysta waxaa kalifay MSB AUN. He should've never killed those wadaads. After those wadaads where killed Somalia went down hill.
I'm glad Somalia isn't like what it used to be under MSB AUN.

The so called waadads killed weren't good people they were just clanist people in disguise

Most Somalis are Muslims.

But most Somalis do not want to live under a theocratic religious regime.

Somalis like music and dancing.
Somalis like to freely mix at aroos and xaflad.
Some Somalis like to drink alcohol
Some Somalis don't wanna wear hijab.
Some Somalis like to have pre marital sex.

ALL of the above Somalis are still Muslims but they don't want to live in a theocratic religious state. They want to be live freely and openly.

But under Shariah those above Somali Muslims would be punished for doing what they enjoy.

So in conclusion, most Somalis want to live under secular laws.

These people are small minority and in general are a shitty people f*ck there opinion
We should return to the 70s-80s and no thats doesn't mean we want the shitty secular government

 

[uncleruckus]

What power do Somalis have ? None what advancement has the Somali population gained none, people are asking the wrong questions look at the big picture Somalia lays in one of the most strategic commercial trade zone in the world, meaning 99.9 % of the world has their eye's on and probably their hands on this place, Somalis are classed at the bottom of the black race for good reasons to say that we have any say or any power or any sway in that country one is either tremendously ignorant or has delusions of grandeur, and it dont matter which side they are on may it be none religious side or the religious side they have no say at all on what Somalia will be come or what laws or rule of power will be implemented in that place, call it what you want to call it self hatred etc or that I am a heathen who dont believe in a God or his decree that Muslims will establish a caliphate so Somalia will be a shariah compliant Country in the future, it dont matter im a realist and I am talking about facts of reality that some how slipped by most of us.

 

[uncleruckus]

As the saying goes bullshit talks and money walks, just before the civil war kicked of there was a meeting between the ambassador of Somalia and other ambassadors of other countries anyways as usual the Somali ambassador starts mouthing of in the usual way somali do prideful and boastful, anyway waxaa luguu daheey amuus for a sec what power does Somalia have on the international platform ? To which the answer is none okay furthermore as they had intelligence on the impending civil war one of the amassadors goes like Somalia was a soaring eagle but now that we have pluked the feathers of it caar dulkaa ha ka kooco, more then two decades later.. you can deduce where im going with it.

 

[Solid]

What's the alternative? Sharia law?

Why does it have to be so narrow? Your view of Shariah is too reductionary, it's soley focused on huduud (punishment). Personally I'd like to see a state with laws and policies influenced by Islam, but not all out Sharia (it won't work with our ppl right now). The Prophet PBUH said that the rightly guided Khalifas ended with Ali RA, everything after isn't/wasn't.

I'd like to a state with laws compatible with Islam (I.e. Mauritania) for ex. Banning of alcohol like drugs. I'd adopt Russia's stance on homosexuality, yet if someone is gay they shouldn't be punished (that's ridiculous). More so focusing on ideology and propaganda. I'd limit the government's involvement in day to day life, yet create the environment to limit deviant behavior.

I'm willing to admit these are just ideas, they're nowhere near perfect and I welcome scrutiny. I don't mind engaging with you though as you seem rational and reasonable bruh.

 

[Kaafiye]

Most Somalis don't want to live in a theocratic totalitarian state where every move they make is judged by the religious police.

As I said earlier, many Somalis like to sing and dance., and not wear hijab, and freely mix with opposite gender etc but in your radical idea of society all those Muslims would be punished.

Don't impose your radicalism and fundamentalism on Somalis.

1. I don't want a "Religious Police" to exist in Somalia.

2. I don't want Somalia to be a society where the Government monitors your every move, I actually value people's privacy and I don't think a Government should ever get involved in a person's private life.

3. If a Somali girl doesn't want to wear a hijab, or if a Somali wants to shave his beard, or if a Somali wants to listen to music then that's up to them. I don't condone it, but I don't think the Government should enforce laws penalizing minor infractions. I'm only against the legitimization of these sins in the public sphere. So yes, I do realize that it is inevitable that you will have Somalis who want to drink alcohol, or fornicate, or gamble, or commit other sins. But as long as these sins don't occur in the public sphere, then what's the problem? It is not my right to tell people what to do with their personal lives, I am not God. I actually don't give a shit if a Somali girl wants to show her hair, or if some Somali guy wants to listen to music. It's not my problem. The same goes for homosexuality and apostasy. Despite my low opinion of homosexuals, I acknowledge the fact that people's privacy matters....and that the Government has no right to barge into someone's private residence to see if they're committing sodomy. This is why Islamic Law requires 4 witnesses in order to carry out punishment towards homosexuals or fornicators. It's nearly impossible to prove (I mean, who really is going to be committing fornication/sodomy while in the presence of 4 witnesses in a public place?), but these laws serve their function. The same goes for apostasy laws; if some Somali guy refuses to pray/fast or practice Islam and is for all intents and purposes an Atheist.....then I would have no issue with him so long as he doesn't advertise his Kuffarnimo and he keeps it to himself. Most Somalis agree with me on this. They couldn't care less about what some dude does in his private life, but if he goes the Ayaan Hirsi route then we should give no tolerance for such behavior.

 

[Gambit]

I disagree but even if so it shouldn't come from the government. If people want to promote Islamic values then I support that 100%.... as long as you guys support others promoting secularism in the market place of ideas. If Islam is so right then surely it will defeat any other idea.

In Somalia where the vast majority is Muslim it'd make sense for them to promote Islam within society, this includes the government. You ask for the promotion of secularism because you're athiest which is understandable, but your athiesm wouldn't be tolerated in Somalia. And Islam will defeat every other idea eventually, although I doubt any of us will be alive to see it.

 

[The Informant]

Well that means no more checking out big booty chicks. No more aroos mixing and dancing in public. You say you want to live under Shariah but knowing you, your lifestyle is not compatible with that.