I’m not Afrocentric, but first kings of the old Kingdom were clearly more SSA

[Midas]

Yes, it’s a coherent theory that fits known migration patterns, linguistic links, and anthropology.
The donkey domestication part is actually a clever angle — mobility tech changes like that do explain sudden expansions in prehistory.
The only thing missing is more direct archaeological evidence tying early Horn cultures to Naqada/Badarian sites.

They found 6,000 year old obsidian in predynastic eygptian settlements that was traced back to mines in the afar region

 

[Saleh]

The SSA–West Eurasian mix of early Upper Egyptians was probably very close to what we see in modern Horn of Africa populations:

• ~50–70% Sub-Saharan African ancestry
• The rest ancient Levant/Egypt-related West Eurasian ancestry

there are already adna samples in circulation from old kingdom egypt and they were quadroons. 50%-70% ssa kulaha

 

[Midas]

there are already adna samples in circulation from old kingdom egypt and they were quadroons. 50%-70% ssa kulaha

Those quadroon samples are not upper eygptians but lower eygptians who trace a huge chunk of thier ancestry back to berber/eef mixed farmers who arrived in Morocco around 5000 b.c and then arrived in eygpt several centuries after that.

We clearly see them depicted as very distinct from upper eygptians in wooden models from the old Kingdom.

 

[Angelina]

there are already adna samples in circulation from old kingdom egypt and they were quadroons. 50%-70% ssa kulaha

Not from upper Egypt walal. The founders of the old kingdom originated from upper Egypt.

 

[NidarNidar]

Iberomaurusian men who were all E-M78 15,000 were roughly 50-63% Basal Eurasian the rest being SSA related, E-M78 formed around the border between Egypt and Libya and expanded south eastwords.

Van de Loosdrecht et al. (2018) modeled the ancestry of Taforalt individuals as approximately 63.5 % West-Eurasian–related (Levantine/Near Eastern) and 36.5 % sub-Saharan African–related, I Lazaridis et al.

Summarizing later, modeled them as about 55 % Dzudzuana-like (a West Eurasian component) and 45 % from an “Ancient North African” component, possibly older than Basal Eurasians.

Basal Eurasian refers to a deeply diverged non-African lineage that split early from other non-Africans and is characterised by lower Neanderthal admixture

In Natufians, models estimate around 50 % Basal Eurasian ancestry, but Taforalt people do not neatly fit that profile. Iberomaurusians are better understood as a mix of West-Eurasian–related and an indigenous North African component, rather than a straight Basal Eurasian split.

Our ancestors domesticated the Donkey somewhere in lower Nubia/ Upper Egypt adjacent to t he Red Sea hills.

 

[Midas]

Iberomaurusian men who were all E-M78 15,000 were roughly 50-63% Basal Eurasian the rest being SSA related, E-M78 formed around the border between Egypt and Libya and expanded south eastwords.

View attachment 370127

Van de Loosdrecht et al. (2018) modeled the ancestry of Taforalt individuals as approximately 63.5 % West-Eurasian–related (Levantine/Near Eastern) and 36.5 % sub-Saharan African–related, I Lazaridis et al.

Summarizing later, modeled them as about 55 % Dzudzuana-like (a West Eurasian component) and 45 % from an “Ancient North African” component, possibly older than Basal Eurasians.

Basal Eurasian refers to a deeply diverged non-African lineage that split early from other non-Africans and is characterised by lower Neanderthal admixture

In Natufians, models estimate around 50 % Basal Eurasian ancestry, but Taforalt people do not neatly fit that profile. Iberomaurusians are better understood as a mix of West-Eurasian–related and an indigenous North African component, rather than a straight Basal Eurasian split.

Our ancestors domesticated the Donkey somewhere in lower Nubia/ Upper Egypt adjacent to t he Red Sea hills.

The domestication of the donkey happened around 5000 b.c which neatly correlates with the last tmrca of e-v32. People in lower nubia have extermely low levels of the E-v12 Clade compared to upper eygptians even though they basically border each. The only people with significant levels of e-v32 are the beja which live all over the Eastern desert . But are separated from the nearest somalis in djbouti by almost 1000 miles.

While it seems crazy the most logical conclusion is that people passed through the wadi hammat river to reach upper eygpt. Since most of the Eastern desert and red sea hills even several thousand years ago were too dry and desert like to pass through before the domestication of the donkey.

 

[Misil]

Games gone. No way the gender war connoisseur is discussing archaeology. Take me back to the good old days of this site

 

[Dibleyy]

Egypt has always been a multi ethnic trading hub for centuries, having one race or ethnicity claim it is not being honest to its full history.

That being said, I do agree there is an agenda to erase any African roots tied to the countries ancient history.

 

[Reformedlaais]

So, I just found out that the first king of the old Kingdom came from Upper Egypt- which is the South of Egypt near Sudan. Surely at that time period, their origins would have been more SSA with those from the Delta region having more Western Euroasian DNA.

I’m not a hotep or Afrocentric, but I’m beginning to think that obscuring the African origin of Egyptians is indeed being fueled by racism. I don’t deny by the end of the Old Kingdom, they probably were of mostly non SSA backgrounds, but I do believe In reality, early Egypt’s cultural and genetic base came from Upper Egypt & Nubia — firmly in Africa — and only later absorbed more Eurasian ancestry through the Delta.

I’m not an expert at all, never really cared for Egyptian history and kingdoms, but a book I’ve been reading has made me think. The experts here please give me your two cents and feel free to correct me ect. I’m a novice when it comes to these discussions.

My guess is that their SSA breakdown is very similar to modern day Horners and Nubians:


The SSA–West Eurasian mix of early Upper Egyptians was probably very close to what we see in modern Horn of Africa populations:

• ~50–70% Sub-Saharan African ancestry
• The rest ancient Levant/Egypt-related West Eurasian ancestry

Also: Cultural overlaps

• Some cattle cults, religious motifs, and pastoralist traditions in early Egypt have strong parallels in the Horn and Sudan, further reinforcing the shared heritage.

What’s wrong with being Afrocentric? I’ve always known the inception of civilization was Black, and I’ve never apologized for it. I’m a proud hotep

Btw doesn’t “kemet” sound awfully similar to the Somali word khameed aka apart of in af Somali?

 

[Midas]

Egypt has always been a multi ethnic trading hub for centuries, having one race or ethnicity claim it is not being honest to its full history.

That being said, I do agree there is an agenda to erase any African roots tied to the countries ancient history.

I largely agree with your point . But Im gonna be slightly blunt here. The ancient eygptian gods like osiris and horus whos origin story is them orginally being pharaohs are just the proto somali pastoralist clan leaders who were deified after their death.

Essentially imagine people worshipping the clan founders like hawiye or darod and saying they were gods. Thats basically what happened in anicent eygpt.

 

[Reformedlaais]

Because afrocentrists often disparage horners, either way. Even if the early dynastic egyptians were "black" that honestly changes little why because black means very little.

This has nothing to do with west/central africans

Being cushy with people who attack your own people is pretty crazy

Ma bad I should’ve said *Somalicentric

 

[Angelina]

Games gone. No way the gender war connoisseur is discussing archaeology. Take me back to the good old days of this site

I’m done with that. I hold no interest in that.

I love my Somali brothers.

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

From we wuz to being the quintessential example of failure

 

[cunug3aad]

From we wuz to being the quintessential example of failure

Guuleysiga waa mar dhow bro trust me mu'miniinta u bishaare

 

[Barkhadle1520]

So, I just found out that the first king of the old Kingdom came from Upper Egypt- which is the South of Egypt near Sudan. Surely at that time period, their origins would have been more SSA with those from the Delta region having more Western Euroasian DNA.

I’m not a hotep or Afrocentric, but I’m beginning to think that obscuring the African origin of Egyptians is indeed being fueled by racism. I don’t deny by the end of the Old Kingdom, they probably were of mostly non SSA backgrounds, but I do believe In reality, early Egypt’s cultural and genetic base came from Upper Egypt & Nubia — firmly in Africa — and only later absorbed more Eurasian ancestry through the Delta.

I’m not an expert at all, never really cared for Egyptian history and kingdoms, but a book I’ve been reading has made me think. The experts here please give me your two cents and feel free to correct me ect. I’m a novice when it comes to these discussions.

My guess is that their SSA breakdown is very similar to modern day Horners and Nubians:


The SSA–West Eurasian mix of early Upper Egyptians was probably very close to what we see in modern Horn of Africa populations:

• ~50–70% Sub-Saharan African ancestry
• The rest ancient Levant/Egypt-related West Eurasian ancestry

Also: Cultural overlaps

• Some cattle cults, religious motifs, and pastoralist traditions in early Egypt have strong parallels in the Horn and Sudan, further reinforcing the shared heritage.

Old kingdom was more north eastern african than middle eastern or north african

They saw berbers as primitive savages and enslaved them until they took over, and levantines were their ennemies, they clearly show in drawings levantine hyksos were white looking very different from egyptians

What I dont like is when modern day Egyptians try to claim they have always been closer to north african berbers or levantines than the darkies upstream, also hate madows trying to involve themselves and being obssesed with a place they have nothing to do with just because its on their continent

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I mean just look at this tomb model from 2000 b.c which is during the old Kingdom. Do these people not look like somalis holding our traditional waran spears with a traditional somali hairstyle.

View attachment 370111

These people were likely upper eygptians. Since lower eygpt at the time was way more diverse . For contrast Here is how nubians were depicted at the time. Look at how different the kind of skirt there wearing is.

View attachment 370112


Then these more yellowish people were the lower eygptians

View attachment 370113

Just because they wear a towel dont mean they Somali
Also many of these ancient egyptian statues and artifacts are forgeries

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Also average people make the mistake of assuming ancient egyptians were one ethnic group with one culture, in pre dynastic times there were hundreds of cultures and peoples that eventually were united under one dynasty, each dynasty was a different family or kingdom, the continuity is just long and there were so many dynasties you just cant all give them a distinct name

 

[Midas]

Also average people make the mistake of assuming ancient egyptians were one ethnic group with one culture, in pre dynastic times there were hundreds of cultures and peoples that eventually were united under one dynasty, each dynasty was a different family or kingdom, the continuity is just long and there were so many dynasties you just cant all give them a distinct name

They weren't one ethnci group or culture. But you also need to understand that 75% of Upper eygptians share the same haplogroup of e-v12 that very much tells you that the upper eygptianss who established anicnet eygpt were a very homogeneous pouplation since even after thosuand of years of foreign invaders e-v12 still makes up 75% of their haplogroup.

You are however right about the lower eygptians who seemed to be in the predynastic period composed of a combination of

1) the early European farmer/berber mixed pouplation

2) Paleolithic aquatic eygptian hunter gatherers who seem to resemble nilosahran pouplations.

3) predynastic upper eygptians

 

[Midas]

Just because they wear a towel dont mean they Somali
Also many of these ancient egyptian statues and artifacts are forgeries

These artifacts are from the British museum not some random picture. Also its not just the towel but the hairstyle and skin color.

I mean you can see in this Picture from the old Kingdom period that the 2 women on the bottom are clearly racially distinct from the women on the top. Just like how the darker nubians are portrayed as distinct.

 

[Angelina]

I don’t believe that Somalis descend from these people, but I believe that our ancient ancestors and the founders of the Old kingdom had the same origins but we split off.