How trustable are Fatwas? And how many are based on Politics instead of Islam?

Hamzza

VIP
Pagan quraysh not only committed shirk in Rububiyyah but were guilty of kufr in rububiyyah like believing Allah not being powerful to resurrect them after they die, or that Allah needs help in maintaining his creation etc.


Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya’ (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): “We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah.” Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever (39:3)
Opposite of Tawheed is Shirk, yes they denied Allah's ability to resurrect the dead but they didn't ascribe them to their idols is the point.

Wali can mean sokeeye(relative) as, in the case of nikah. This is the perfect Ayah to show that some of the Mushrikeen didn't commit Shirk in Rububiyyah as they said the only purpose they are worshipping their idols is for the idols to bring them near Allah.

In the grave the first question we will be asked is who is our rabb, so the mushriks will be able to answer after all they had tawheed rububiyyah according to najdi dawah.
This is such an absurd statement, I don't even know where to start runtii

What will the Qadiyans(Ahmedis) kuffar say when asked this question as they never made Shirk in Rububiyyah or Uluhiyyah?

No Mushrik or Kafir will pass this test.
 

Hamzza

VIP
The one guilty of shirk in ʿibāda cannot have a tawḥīd that is correct and sound in rubūbiyya, because if that was the case, he would not have committed shirk in ʿibāda

If I supplicate to the Sun day and night in a way to mock Allah without believing it can bring benefit or harm to me isn't that Shirk in Ibadah only?
 
Wali can mean sokeeye(relative) as, in the case of nikah. This is the perfect Ayah to show that some of the Mushrikeen didn't commit Shirk in Rububiyyah as they said the only purpose they are worshipping their idols is for the idols to bring them near Allah.
Wali in this verse does not mean relative, you should read tafaseer before making commentary on what the Quran means or doesn't
clearly here, Allah mentions awliyaaa, in the meaning of a proetector, when referring to intercessors, in fact, you would only worship and intercessor if you believed they have the power to bring you closer to Allah, therefore shirk rubaybiya
 
If I supplicate to the Sun day and night in a way to mock Allah without believing it can bring benefit or harm to me isn't that Shirk in Ibadah only?
that is shirk rubaybiya, in that you are doing kufr by taking your nafs as rabb because you believe you can mock Allah and get away with it
 
What will the Qadiyans(Ahmedis) kuffar say when asked this question as they never made Shirk in Rububiyyah or Uluhiyyah?
they did both shirk rubaybiya and uluhiyah, they took there teachers and people who taught them ahamdiyya as their rabbs, just like jews took their rabbis as rabbs
they also took their leaders, and their own nafs, as God
 
Which Salafis said Christians and Jews did not believe their monks are rabbs other than Allah? I'm not familiar with Christian and Jews theology so i cant approve or deny plus its irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Who claimed Allahs lordship is restricted to creating and the other stuff you mentioned they made Shirk in rububiyyah by believing the ahkam of their monks are more appropriate and can bring better results than the Sharia of Allah.

As for the Tawheed of Rububiyyah and Uluhiyyah not necessarily being inclusive of each other. Its not najd concept as scholars like Ibn Kathir who is Shami believed and spoke about it centuries before the rise of the Najd dawah.

ولئن سألتهم من خلق السماوات والأرض وسخر الشمس والقمر ليقولن الله ۖ فأنى يؤفكون

Ibn Kathir commenting on this ayah said:

You misunderstand, some of quraysh may claim to believe in one rabb when in actuality they believe in multiple
the exact same case as the christians and jews
jews believe in one God, and follow the book, according to you they believe in tawheed rubaybiya when in the Quran it clearly states they do not, which means ur understanding of tawheed rubaybiya is wrong

plus a claim doesn't equal reality, munafiqoon claim to be Muslim but in their heart they are kuffar
 
If I supplicate to the Sun day and night in a way to mock Allah without believing it can bring benefit or harm to me isn't that Shirk in Ibadah only?
also u arent worshipping the sun in this situation, here ur God is your nafs, you are worshipping your nafs
 

Hamzza

VIP
they did both shirk rubaybiya and uluhiyah, they took there teachers and people who taught them ahamdiyya as their rabbs, just like jews took their rabbis as rabbs
they also took their leaders, and their own nafs, as God
Show us where they committed Shirk? They are not Jews so you can't apply that Ayah in Surah Tawbah to them. Even if we are to assume they have Shirk they will still pass according to your logic as the Question doesn't ask which is your only Rabb

They will also pass the next question they consider Mohamed ﷺ as their Nabi but not the last.

Many Kufar who didn't commit Shirk or deny the prophethood of Muhammad ﷺ will pass too like the person who denies the existence of Jinn and Angels

Let @AdoonkaAlle respond
 
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Hamzza

VIP
You misunderstand, some of quraysh may claim to believe in one rabb when in actuality they believe in multiple
the exact same case as the christians and jews
jews believe in one God, and follow the book, according to you they believe in tawheed rubaybiya when in the Quran it clearly states they do not, which means ur understanding of tawheed rubaybiya is wrong

plus a claim doesn't equal reality, munafiqoon claim to be Muslim but in their heart they are kuffar
Did Allah accuse them of lying? Look at the end of the Ayyah فأني يئفكون why are they deluded

They are deluded for believing Allah is their only creater who controls the wold... etc but worshipped other useless gods besides him

You accused me of ignoring the tafseer yet you're the one ignoring the tafseer of one of the greatest mufasiriin
 
Except that the pagans didn't believe they were just mere intermediaries, they believed their gods had powers and had direct influence in their affairs. In 39:3 we read that the mushriks took their gods as their wali ie protector & they worshipped them directly & In 39:36 we read that they threatened the Prophet with their gods

The mushriks claim that they worshipped them to get closer to Allah is a false one and a excuse to silence criticism of their worship of others. In the quran & hadith we learn that the mushriks used to insult Allah for their idols, rejoice at the mention of their gods over Allah, assign greater portion of their crops & livestock to their idols than to Allah, attributed victory over Allah to their gods


Do not insult those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge” (6:108).


When Allah is mentioned alone, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter recoil with aversion; but when those [worshipped] other than Him are mentioned, immediately they rejoice (39:45)


And they assign to Allah a share of the crops and livestock He created, saying, ‘This much is for Allah’—so they claim!—‘and this much is for our “partners” .’ However, the share of their “partners” never gets back to Allah , while Allah’s share just goes to their “partners” how badly they judge!” (6:136)


In the Battle of Uḥud, when Abū Sufyān said,

“May Hubal be exalted!”

The Messenger of Allah ﷺ asked the Ṣaḥāba to reply to him with, “Allah is more Elevated and Majestic.” To which Abū Sufyān responded, “We Have al-ʿUzzā, while you have no ʿUzzā.” To which the Prophet ﷺ asked the Ṣaḥāba to respond, “Allah is our Helper, while you have no Helper.” (Reported by al-Bukhārī.)


Worship is not just about the external actions that a person does, it's about the beliefs a person has that they ascribe to the being that they perform these external actions for.

We worship Allah because He is the Lord of all existence, it is His Lordship that makes Him worthy of worship. Similarly when other gods are worshipped besides Allah, it is because the worshipper of these gods have attributed some aspects of Lordship to them and worship them as a result of this belief.
The concept of the one in babylonian tradition, the cult of aten, the initial practices of worshiping the one in budhism, the lone monethistic sect in hinduism etc.. I take the opinion that monotheism was taught and restored by the prophets and was the foundation of all religions which the shaytaan via priests corrupted.
 
Show us where they committed Shirk?
They deny the Prophethood of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalam
They are not Jews so you can't apply that Ayah in Surah Tawbah to them.
Actually the ayah is in reference to them but the meaning can be applied to anyone who takes another persons hukm over Allah like doing tahleel of something that is haram etc..
Even if we are to assume they have Shirk they will still pass as the Question doesn't ask which is your only Rabb
They won't be able to answer that question, just like the munaafiqoon,

حَدَّثَنَا عَيَّاشُ بْنُ الْوَلِيدِ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدٌ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ أَنَّهُ حَدَّثَهُمْ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّ الْعَبْدَ إِذَا وُضِعَ فِي قَبْرِهِ، وَتَوَلَّى عَنْهُ أَصْحَابُهُ، وَإِنَّهُ لَيَسْمَعُ قَرْعَ نِعَالِهِمْ، أَتَاهُ مَلَكَانِ فَيُقْعِدَانِهِ فَيَقُولاَنِ مَا كُنْتَ تَقُولُ فِي الرَّجُلِ لِمُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ فَأَمَّا الْمُؤْمِنُ فَيَقُولُ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّهُ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولُهُ‏.‏ فَيُقَالُ لَهُ انْظُرْ إِلَى مَقْعَدِكَ مِنَ النَّارِ، قَدْ أَبْدَلَكَ اللَّهُ بِهِ مَقْعَدًا مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ، فَيَرَاهُمَا جَمِيعًا ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ قَتَادَةُ وَذُكِرَ لَنَا أَنَّهُ يُفْسَحُ فِي قَبْرِهِ‏.‏ ثُمَّ رَجَعَ إِلَى حَدِيثِ أَنَسٍ قَالَ ‏"‏ وَأَمَّا الْمُنَافِقُ وَالْكَافِرُ فَيُقَالُ لَهُ مَا كُنْتَ تَقُولُ فِي هَذَا الرَّجُلِ فَيَقُولُ لاَ أَدْرِي، كُنْتُ أَقُولُ مَا يَقُولُ النَّاسُ‏.‏ فَيُقَالُ لاَ دَرَيْتَ وَلاَ تَلَيْتَ‏.‏ وَيُضْرَبُ بِمَطَارِقَ مِنْ حَدِيدٍ ضَرْبَةً، فَيَصِيحُ صَيْحَةً يَسْمَعُهَا مَنْ يَلِيهِ، غَيْرَ الثَّقَلَيْنِ ‏"‏‏.‏
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "When (Allah's) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps, two angels come to him and make him sit and ask, 'What did you use to say about this man (i.e. Muhammad)?' The faithful Believer will say, 'I testify that he is Allah's slave and His Apostle.' Then they will say to him, 'Look at your place in the Hell Fire; Allah has given you a place in Paradise instead of it.' So he will see both his places." (Qatada said, "We were informed that his grave would be made spacious." Then Qatada went back to the narration of Anas who said;) Whereas a hypocrite or a non-believer will be asked, "What did you use to say about this man." He will reply, "I do not know; but I used to say what the people used to say." So they will say to him, "Neither did you know nor did you take the guidance (by reciting the Qur'an)." Then he will be hit with iron hammers once, that he will send such a cry as everything near to him will hear, except Jinns and human beings. (See Hadith No. 422).
They will also pass the next question they consider Mohamed ﷺ as their Nabi but not the last.
No because they failed that question aswell because to believe he is the nabi is to believe in everything he brought and testified to and it is ijmaa' amongst the sahaba and all scholars that he is the last Prophet and if you do not believe that you are a kaafir. so to believe he is a prophet you must believe he is the last
Many Kufar who didn't commit Shirk or deny the prophethood of Muhammad ﷺ will pass too like the person who denies the existence of Jinn and Angels
every kuffar commits shirk
 
Did Allah accuse them of lying? Look at the end of the Ayyah فأني يئفكون why are they deluded

They are deluded for believing Allah is their only creater who controls the wold... etc but worshipped other useless gods besides him

You accused me of ignoring the tafseer yet you're the one ignoring the tafseer of one of the greatest mufasiriin
Actually you proved my point.
The ayah is saying, you believe Allah created all of this, yet you still believe this little Gods you worship other than him have the ability to give you anything? you are deluded

I am not ignoring tafseer, you are misinterpreting the tafseer, the kuffar are doing shirk rubaybiya, when they think properly, they say Allah created everything, but due to arrogance in their hearts, they refuse to stop worshipping and making dua to their idols, because they believe they will get benefit and sustenance from them


35:13
يُولِجُ ٱلَّيْلَ فِى ٱلنَّهَارِ وَيُولِجُ ٱلنَّهَارَ فِى ٱلَّيْلِ وَسَخَّرَ ٱلشَّمْسَ وَٱلْقَمَرَ كُلٌّۭ يَجْرِى لِأَجَلٍۢ مُّسَمًّۭى ۚ ذَٰلِكُمُ ٱللَّهُ رَبُّكُمْ لَهُ ٱلْمُلْكُ ۚ وَٱلَّذِينَ تَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِۦ مَا يَمْلِكُونَ مِن قِطْمِيرٍ ١٣

He merges the night into the day and the day into the night, and has subjected the sun and the moon, each orbiting for an appointed term. That is Allah—your Lord! All authority belongs to Him. But those ˹idols˺ you invoke besides Him do not possess even the skin of a date stone.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran


Here it is clearly implied mushrikoon believe the idols have possesion and ownership of some of the dunya, so that the idols can give it to them, Allah is informing them that these idols you worship in order to gain sustenance and the like do not even own a date stone, again shirk rubaybiya

look at this

29:65
فَإِذَا رَكِبُوا فِى ٱلْفُلْكِ دَعَوُا ٱللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ ٱلدِّينَ فَلَمَّا نَجَّىٰهُمْ إِلَى ٱلْبَرِّ إِذَا هُمْ يُشْرِكُونَ ٦٥

If they happen to be aboard a ship ˹caught in a storm˺, they cry out to Allah ˹alone˺ in sincere devotion. But as soon as He delivers them ˹safely˺ to shore, they associate ˹others with Him once again˺.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran


deep down inside they believe Allah is their only rabb who can save them, when they are in a ship at sea they admit this, but as soon as they get back, they commit shirk again, shirk rubaybiya and uluhiyya, this shows, that even when asking them who created heavens and earth, they will admit one thing but go back to believing another

like this ayah


21:62
قَالُوٓا ءَأَنتَ فَعَلْتَ هَـٰذَا بِـَٔالِهَتِنَا يَـٰٓإِبْرَٰهِيمُ ٦٢

They asked, “Was it you who did this to our gods, O Abraham?”
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran



21:63
قَالَ بَلْ فَعَلَهُۥ كَبِيرُهُمْ هَـٰذَا فَسْـَٔلُوهُمْ إِن كَانُوا يَنطِقُونَ ٦٣

He replied ˹sarcastically˺, “No, this one—the biggest of them—did it! So ask them, if they can talk!”
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran



21:64
فَرَجَعُوٓا۟ إِلَىٰٓ أَنفُسِهِمْ فَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّكُمْ أَنتُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ ٦٤

So they came back to their senses, saying ˹to one another˺, “You yourselves are truly the wrongdoers!”
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran



21:65
ثُمَّ نُكِسُوا۟ عَلَىٰ رُءُوسِهِمْ لَقَدْ عَلِمْتَ مَا هَـٰٓؤُلَآءِ يَنطِقُونَ ٦٥

Then they ˹quickly˺ regressed to their ˹original˺ mind-set, ˹arguing,˺ “You already know that those ˹idols˺ cannot talk.”
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran



21:66
قَالَ أَفَتَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا يَنفَعُكُمْ شَيْـًۭٔا وَلَا يَضُرُّكُمْ ٦٦

He rebuked ˹them˺, “Do you then worship—instead of Allah—what can neither benefit nor harm you in any way?
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran



21:67
أُفٍّۢ لَّكُمْ وَلِمَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ ۖ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ ٦٧

Shame on you and whatever you worship instead of Allah! Do you not have any sense?”
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran




see here they admitted that their Gods were useless, but then quickly went back and believed in their Gods again because their hearts were ill

Here we can also see they only worshipped the Gods for some type of benefit, Ibrahim AS is asking them why they would worship something that can bring them no benefit or harm, and this would also be rubaybiya, because if anything can bring you benefit or harm independently is a rabb
 
Why do you think shaytaan go expelled from jannah and was a kuffar?
do you think it was just because he refused to prostrate?
laa
he was arrogant, and arrogance is when a person rejects the truth due to his pride, he is competing with Allah for his place as a true rabb and God
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Allah Almighty said: Grandeur is My cloak and pride is My garment. Whoever competes with Me in one of these two, I will cast him into the Hellfire.
 

Hamzza

VIP
every kuffar commits shirk
How is the one who denies the existence of the Jinn or angels committing Shirk? Pls explain

He is kafir because he denied Ayat from Quran but Mushrik??? I didn't see him worshipping other than Allah
Actually you proved my point.
The ayah is saying, you believe Allah created all of this, yet you still believe this little Gods you worship other than him have the ability to give you anything? you are deluded
You are imposing your narrow understanding to Allah's speach leave this nonsense and let @AdoonkaAlle tackle it youre clearly not qualified

I am not ignoring tafseer, you are misinterpreting the tafseer, the kuffar are doing shirk rubaybiya, when they think properly, they say Allah created everything, but due to arrogance in their hearts, they refuse to stop worshipping and making dua to their idols, because they believe they will get benefit and sustenance from them
You're ignoring the tafseer because ibn kathir clearly said Mushrikeen had tawheed Rububiyyah and here you are waffling denying it.

وكثيرا ما يقرر تعالى مقام الإلهية بالاعتراف بتوحيد الربوبية . وقد كان المشركون يعترفون بذلك ، كما كانوا يقولون في تلبيتهم : " لبيك لا شريك لك ، إلا شريكا هو لك ، تملكه وما ملك

They deny the Prophethood of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalam
How Is this Shirk marka?
 

Hamzza

VIP
I have, I study under teachers, mostly salafi teachers, you actually need to learn the meaning of shirk, I will give you a lesson. or I will give you a salafi site to prove my point

From your article

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr is denial and concealment of the truth, such as one who denies that prayer is obligatory, or that zakaah is obligatory, or that fasting Ramadaan is obligatory, or that doing Hajj when one is able to is obligatory, or that honouring one's parents is obligatory, and so on, or one who denies that zina is haraam, or that drinking intoxicants is haraam, or that disobeying one’s parents is haraam, and so on.

Shirk is devoting acts of worship to something or someone other than Allaah, such as one who seeks the help of the dead, those who are absent, the jinn, idols, the stars, and so on, or who offers sacrifices to them, or makes vows to them. A kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
 

AdoonkaAlle

Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
Opposite of Tawheed is Shirk, yes they denied Allah's ability to resurrect the dead but they didn't ascribe them to their idols is the point.

Wali can mean sokeeye(relative) as, in the case of nikah. This is the perfect Ayah to show that some of the Mushrikeen didn't commit Shirk in Rububiyyah as they said the only purpose they are worshipping their idols is for the idols to bring them near Allah.


This is such an absurd statement, I don't even know where to start runtii

What will the Qadiyans(Ahmedis) kuffar say when asked this question as they never made Shirk in Rububiyyah or Uluhiyyah?

No Mushrik or Kafir will pass this test.

Yes they did commit shirk in Rububiyyah, if they didn't why did they threaten the Prophet with their idols in 39:36.

Denying the ability to resurrect is kufr in Rububiyyah, so how can they have tawheed rububiyyah after committing kufr here ?


No the meaning of Wali in 39:3 is referring to gods not human friends etc. The ayah is talking about mushriks who have taken other than Allah to be their Protector etc. There's other ayat where Allah talks about taking wali in reference to us muslims such as

The believers, both men and women, are wali of one another...... (9:71)

Verily, your Wali (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down (submit themselves with obedience to Allah in prayer) (5:55)

In the context where we read Allah telling us not to take other than Him as a wali or reprimands the mushriks for taking other than Him as wali etc . All of these ayat the meaning of Wali is referring to the attribute of Lordship meaning Allah is informing not take or ascribe partners to him in this sifaat of rububiyyah like the mushriks have done with their gods.
The phrase taking a wali other than Allah is repeated in numerous ayat like in 6:14, where tabari says the following

" قل أغير الله أتخذ وليًّا " ، قال: أما " الولي"، فالذي يتولَّونه ويقرّون له بالربوبية .

Say, shall i choose as a supporter/ protector someone other than Allah. He said, as for
al Wali He's the one whom they take and affirm rububiyyah for him.

But in the context of 9:71, 5:55 the meaning of wali is different, as can be read from the ayat.


The qadiyanis as you correctly pointed out waa gaalo and no gaalo will ever be able to answer that question of the grave. Laakin najdi theology claims mushriks have tawheed rububiyyah and that their affirmation of tawheed rububiyyah didn't make them muslim because they committed shirk in ulihiyyah.


Now this begs the question if tawheed rububiyyah isn't enough to make one a muslim or that rububiyyah isn't inclusive of uluhiyyah then why are we asked Who our Rabb is in the grave ? Najdi creed makes the absurd claim that what separates us muslims and gaalo/mushriks etc isn't our affirmation of tawheed rububiyyah but tawheed uluhiyyah laakin if that were true we wouldn't be asked who our Rabb is in the grave

The question of who Our Rabb is, completely contradicts najdi understanding of tawheed, the question is proof that rububiyyah & uluhiyyah are inclusive of each other.
 
How is the one who denies the existence of the Jinn or angels committing Shirk? Pls explain

He is kafir because he denied Ayat from Quran but Mushrik??? I didn't see him worshipping other than Allah
Because he is worshipping his nafs,and shaytaan
You are imposing your narrow understanding to Allah's speach leave this nonsense and let @AdoonkaAlle tackle it youre clearly not qualified
I am and you are refusing to accept the truth
You're ignoring the tafseer because ibn kathir clearly said Mushrikeen had tawheed Rububiyyah and here you are waffling denying it.

وكثيرا ما يقرر تعالى مقام الإلهية بالاعتراف بتوحيد الربوبية . وقد كان المشركون يعترفون بذلك ، كما كانوا يقولون في تلبيتهم : " لبيك لا شريك لك ، إلا شريكا هو لك ، تملكه وما ملك
Thats interesting opinion from ibn katheer, I will take that into consideration although I do not believe he is correct
How Is this Shirk marka?
Again worshipping your nafs or shaytaaan
 

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