dont go on to those subredits and dont go on redditThis is from a fucked up subreddit so don’t mind it but this is true. How can we trust these kind of resources? Can’t trust stuff related to Saudi, can’t trust stuff related to Egypt even Somalia (Saudi influenced).
Even the infamous Ibn Baz banned driving and said it was haram.
Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
People have spoken a great deal in the al-Jazeerah newspaper about the issue of women driving cars. It is well known that it leads to evil consequences which are well known to those who promote it, such as being alone with a non-mahram woman, unveiling, reckless mixing with men, and committing haraam actions because of which these things were forbidden. Islam forbids the things that lead to haraam and regards them as being haraam too.
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Right because wearing a Burka is a fixed practice and there should be no ifs or buts
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How trustable are Fatwas? And how many are based on Politics instead of Islam?
- Thread starter Qeelbax
- Start date
Hamzza
VIP
@Omar del Sur what is spubs?
the following that is in all caps is not meant at you but is directed at people reading in general: I DO NOT LISTEN TO SPUBS OR ABU KHADEEJAH, I DID NOT LEARN SALAFIYYAH FROM THEM, I AM AGAINST THEM, I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.
I say this because if you believe in Salafiyyah, some people will try to associate you with spubs. whoever tries to say I'm a follower of them is being completely dishonest. I do not listen to those people or to Abu Khadeejah.
as for who is spubs.... I honestly do not know all that much about them. they are in UK and they are supposedly Salafis... but I directly asked NasirAlHanbali about them, he warned against them and he's done some videos talking against them. there's some issue with them, NasirAlHanbali knows a lot about it but I honestly don't know much about it... I think btw that they're against Sheikh Ruhayli and this other scholar I think named Muhammad Bin Hadi.... he has Madkhali in his name but he isn't Rabee Al-Madkhali.... anyways, I believe they're against those two.... and these two are respected scholars who don't deserve bad treatment..... the scholars have vouched for them.... anyways, spubs will warn against actual deviants but they will also warn against people who really don't deserve it and NasirAlHanbali warned against them so I generally avoid them.... there's more to it but I don't know all that much on it... I've met NasirAlHanbali and I don't want to say a lot in order to respect his privacy but when I met him I actually didn't know he had a youtube channel... he is this very knowledgeable person and I have tons of respect for him and in fact he really influenced me a lot.... I learned a lot from him..... so I pretty much take his word for it on spubs, he knows a lot more about the spubs issue than I do.... he knows a lot more of the details about them
edit: if anyone wants to know about the spubs issue, I suggest going to NasirAlHanbali's youtube and looking at the playlist "exposing the sa'aafiqah". he has videos on there talking about them. he says they're part of what I think is a larger group called the sa'aafiqah.
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no such thing, if you do kufr uluhiyyah u do kufr rubbaybiya
Hamzza
VIP
How is your reply relevant to his statement
The guy said affirming Allah's lordship(rububiyyah) whilst still worshiping other gods besides him as some of the Mushrikeen did is not enough to make you a Muslim.
Kufr is kufr
He said they do tawheed rubabiya which is wrong, this is the najdi/salafi dawah, which is wrong, they say people in the past believed in tawheed rubaybiya but not tawheed uluhiyyah which was wrong
if you worship Gods other than Allah you do not have tawheed rubaybiya or tawheed uluhiyyah
Hamzza
VIP
How did you come to this conclusion?
Do you know what Rububiyyah and Uluhiyyah are?
For you to commit Shirk in Uluhiyyah you have to worship an object whether it be an Idol, Grave, or even a living person besides Allah.
That's why it's called Tawheed al Ibadah(worship)
Uluhiyyah = worship
For you to commit Shirk in Rububiyyah you have to believe anything other than God has created the world, can bring rain... etc.
So no if you worship other than Allah you haven't necessarily committed Shirk in Rububiyyah unless you believe the false God you worshiped has Attributes of lordship like bringing rain etc.
Some of the Mushrikeen did indeed affirm Allah's lordship and that's clear from the Quran read Sarah Al Ankaboot and Surah Al Mo'minuun.
You don't understand what tawheed rubabiya is
I have asked my salafi ustaadhs this question, they affirmed a rabb, is someone who can benefit you, keep you safe, harm you independently
if you believe someone is your rabb, you believe they can benefit you aside from Allah, there are also other things that can make someone your rabb, all of these things are encompased by you worshipping them in a sort of way, anything you associate with Allah.
For example, salafi would say, no christian or jew believes there monks or rabbis are rabbs other than Allah, or that they even worship them, they just follow their monks and rabbis hukm which goes against Allahs
whereas Allah says in the ayah
9:31
ٱتَّخَذُوٓا۟ أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَـٰنَهُمْ أَرْبَابًۭا مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱلْمَسِيحَ ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓا۟ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُوٓا۟ إِلَـٰهًۭا وَٰحِدًۭا ۖ لَّآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ سُبْحَـٰنَهُۥ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ ٣١
They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah, even though they were commanded to worship none but One God. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him. Glorified is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran
‘Adi ibn Hatim reported: I came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, while I had a crucifix of gold around my neck. The Prophet said, “O ‘Adi! Remove this idol from yourself!” I heard him reciting the verse in Surat al-Tawbah, “They have taken their priests and rabbis as lords besides Allah.” (9:31) The Prophet said, “As for them, they did not worship them, but rather when they made something lawful for them, they considered it lawful. When they made something unlawful for them, they considered it unlawful.”
Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 3095
Grade: Hasan li ghayrihi (fair due to external evidence) according to Al-Albani
عَنْ عَدِيِّ بْنِ حَاتِمٍ قَالَ أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَفِي عُنُقِي صَلِيبٌ مِنْ ذَهَبٍ فَقَالَ يَا عَدِيُّ اطْرَحْ عَنْكَ هَذَا الْوَثَنَ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقْرَأُ فِي سُورَةِ بَرَاءَةٌ اتَّخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ قَالَ أَمَا إِنَّهُمْ لَمْ يَكُونُوا يَعْبُدُونَهُمْ وَلَكِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا إِذَا أَحَلُّوا لَهُمْ شَيْئًا اسْتَحَلُّوهُ وَإِذَا حَرَّمُوا عَلَيْهِمْ شَيْئًا حَرَّمُوهُ
Here we can see, that if you were to take the hukm of your sheikh, and it was opposed to Allahs, not only would that mean you are worshipping him in a sense but even bigger thing, is that you are taking him as a rabb
Allah uses the plural of rabb, arbaab, to refer to the jews and christians, meaning they do not do tawheed rubaybiya
now if jews and christians do not admit there monks and rabbis create, benefit, harm, or any of that, then how can they take their rabbis as arbaab. answer is, rabb is not restricted to the meaning of what you said, it is very expansive, to the point, that if you take someones opinion over Allahs, they have now become your rabb.
another way of someone taking a rabb other than Allah is them taking awliyaaa other than Allah, someone who can protect them clothe them feed them, provide for them,
in surah Ankabuut Allah mentions the story of nuuh ibrahim lut aad shuayb musaa and there people who rejected the message
after alll of those stories Allah collectively tells us about their condition
29:41
مَثَلُ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ أَوْلِيَآءَ كَمَثَلِ ٱلْعَنكَبُوتِ ٱتَّخَذَتْ بَيْتًا وَإِنَّ أَوْهَنَ ٱلْبُيُوتِ لَبَيْتُ ٱلْعَنكَبُوتِ ۖ لَوْ كَانُوا يَعْلَمُونَ ٤١
The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of a spider spinning a shelter. And the flimsiest of all shelters is certainly that of a spider, if only they knew.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran
Here we can see all of those people, took awliyaaa other than Allah, question is, who was qawm lutts awliyaa, we were not told they worshipped an idol?
laakin, they worshipped themselves, and took their nafs as and idol and waliyy other than Allah
since they took their nafs as a protector, and something that could benefit them, by their way of homosexuality, they took their nafs as a rabb, their nafs said homosexuality is halal, it will bring me benefit, and Allah will not bring me benefit or punish me, so they took their nafs as a rabb
Now what does all this mean, whenever anyone ya'budu shay'an, then they have taken it as a rabb, why?
when you worship something, you submit yourself to it, and you believe in your heart only it can benefit or harm or provide for you, that is a condition of you worshipping it, noone worships something they believe cannot benefit them in anyway.
And now we see, something that can benefit, harm, provide for you, protect you, are all things the word rabb encompasses, and in fact even more, as we have seen in the ayah, even taking a hukm agaisnt Allahs is considered shirk rubaybiya
3:80
وَلَا يَأْمُرَكُمْ أَن تَتَّخِذُوا۟ ٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةَ وَٱلنَّبِيِّـۧنَ أَرْبَابًا ۗ أَيَأْمُرُكُم بِٱلْكُفْرِ بَعْدَ إِذْ أَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ ٨٠
And he would never ask you to take angels and prophets as lords. Would he ask you to disbelieve after you have submitted?
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran
Now, who took the angels as Gods? It wasn't the jews or christians but the Quraysh, now the salafis say quraysh did tawheed rubaybiyya, but clearly it implies here the malaalika were taked as arbaab or lords, which is plural of rabb, meaning the quraysh worshipped the malaaika, and the obivious implication is that they took them as rabbs, since anything you worship is rabb
I would recommend you do more research into this Inshaallah, ask your own ustaadhs, I asked prominent ones here in London and I think slowly we are getting to the crux of what is wrong with this whole rhetoric, ask your own ustaadhs, what rabb means, bring these points up to them, and you will see the truth.
@AdoonkaAlle I already told u about my change in opinion on my other account jazakallah khair for telling me
They worship besides Allah others who can neither harm nor benefit them, and say, “These are our intercessors with Allah.” Ask ˹them, O Prophet˺, “Are you informing Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth? Glorified and Exalted is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!”
10:18
“I believe in the sovereignty of God +++”
They affirm god and worship others besides him and yes the jews did solicit and make offerings to the angels and saints like the christians.
Do the disbelievers think they can ˹simply˺ take My servants[1] as lords instead of Me? We have surely prepared Hell as an accommodation for the disbelievers.
18:102
*servants include, angels, men and jinn.
Tawhid ar rubabiya is also common place in pagan practices, they all affirm the existence of a supreme god-head but service leaser deities - whom they themselves consider inferior to God. Tawhid ar rubabiya is a component of tawhid, the quraysh did not have tawhid but a fragment of it.
Your entire post proved my entire point.
Except the last part, tawheed rubaybiy is not common place in pagan pratices
there is a difference between tawheed rubaybiya and believing Allah is a rabb
difference is tawheed means you only believe Allah is rabb, pagans and quraysh believed ALlah shared his rubbubiya with other Gods.
The greeks affirm zeus as rab, but service lesser deities. They do believe in one all powerful but through various myths pedalled by clergy attribute his qualities to lesser deities. You can accept the existence of the all mighty and give part worship to creation, it’s hypocritical and stupid “a slave owned by several quarrelsome masters, and a slave owned by only one master”. They affirm and deny it, only affirming it is not enough.
yes, all I am saying is they do not believe tawheed rubaybiya, they do shirkh rubaybiya
reminding them that Allah created the earth and heavens, is to make them remember there fitra, like when they are in a boat at sea, so they realise all these other so called rabbs are nothing,
Its a counter argument to the murshirkh: you say you believe in one god, I believe in one god, so why don’t you not worship him alone? It is a concession to further drive home your position and through common ground show the fallacious nature of their religious practice. They are not on tawhid at all I agree.
no, they didnt claim to believe in one God
“These are our intercessors with Allah.” Ask ˹them, O Prophet”
The partners are merely an intermediary to the supreme, a way of soliciting help from God via a third party. This act of solicitation morphs into worship if there are demands and stipulations placed on soliciting, as they often are by way of offering/ritual sacrifice.
Hence you affirm with speech and deny through action.
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
@cooli3o sorry for the late reply sxb i'm not that active these days.
@cooli3o is right in that it's impossible for an individual to have tawheed rububiyyah and be a mushrik in tawheed uluhiyyah. The answer is very simply, there's a necessary implication between rububiyyah and uluhiyyah.
Affirming Allāh’s rubūbiyya necessitates affirming that he is the only One worshiped (ma’būd), because no one deserves to be worshiped except the Creator, the Sustainer etc. So when a person fails to single out Allāh in worship, then this is proof that their affirmation of Allah's Rububiyyah is also absent, lacking, or distorted etc.
The one guilty of shirk in ʿibāda cannot have a tawḥīd that is correct and sound in rubūbiyya, because if that was the case, he would not have committed shirk in ʿibāda.
As @cooli3o noted above Tawheed Rububiyyah is an encompassing term and can not be limited to ONLY a few select attributes of Rububiyyah. This is the problem with najdi/salafi theology as they affirm tawheed rububiyyah to the mushriks based on a few attributes of lordship while refusing to acknowledge the other aspects of lordships that the mushriks ascribed partners to Allah.
Pagan quraysh not only committed shirk in Rububiyyah but were guilty of kufr in rububiyyah like believing Allah not being powerful to resurrect them after they die, or that Allah needs help in maintaining his creation etc.
Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya’ (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): “We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah.” Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever (39:3)
In that ayah Allah affirms that the mushriks took their gods as their wali ie protector, helper etc. Al wali is one of the names of Allah and also an attribute of Rububiyyah, so in the ayah itself we can read that the mushriks have committed shirk of rububiyyah by ascribing partners to Allah in His Lordship.
Another example is the one of Legislation that @cooli3o cites, in the ayah we read that jews & christians have taken their rabbis and scholars as Rabb by believing that they had the right to legislate and overturn the hukm of Allah meaning they made their rabbis etc as partners to Allah in His legislation.
Now if that was the condition of jews & christians who had with them some part of revelation what about the pagan quraysh who didn't have any? Which legislation/hukm were they ruling with amongst themselves ? How can we then affirm tawheed rububiyyah to pagan arabs when they didn't believe in nor rule by Allah's Legislation ?
Imagine claiming that Allah revealed his hukm for us muslims but not for pagan arabs because apparently these pagans weren't guilty of not adhering to His laws or that they didn't ascribe partners to Allah in His legislation. This is nothing short of absurdity ruunti
In the grave the first question we will be asked is who is our rabb, so the mushriks will be able to answer after all they had tawheed rububiyyah according to najdi dawah.
@cooli3o is right in that it's impossible for an individual to have tawheed rububiyyah and be a mushrik in tawheed uluhiyyah. The answer is very simply, there's a necessary implication between rububiyyah and uluhiyyah.
Affirming Allāh’s rubūbiyya necessitates affirming that he is the only One worshiped (ma’būd), because no one deserves to be worshiped except the Creator, the Sustainer etc. So when a person fails to single out Allāh in worship, then this is proof that their affirmation of Allah's Rububiyyah is also absent, lacking, or distorted etc.
The one guilty of shirk in ʿibāda cannot have a tawḥīd that is correct and sound in rubūbiyya, because if that was the case, he would not have committed shirk in ʿibāda.
As @cooli3o noted above Tawheed Rububiyyah is an encompassing term and can not be limited to ONLY a few select attributes of Rububiyyah. This is the problem with najdi/salafi theology as they affirm tawheed rububiyyah to the mushriks based on a few attributes of lordship while refusing to acknowledge the other aspects of lordships that the mushriks ascribed partners to Allah.
Pagan quraysh not only committed shirk in Rububiyyah but were guilty of kufr in rububiyyah like believing Allah not being powerful to resurrect them after they die, or that Allah needs help in maintaining his creation etc.
Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya’ (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): “We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah.” Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever (39:3)
In that ayah Allah affirms that the mushriks took their gods as their wali ie protector, helper etc. Al wali is one of the names of Allah and also an attribute of Rububiyyah, so in the ayah itself we can read that the mushriks have committed shirk of rububiyyah by ascribing partners to Allah in His Lordship.
Another example is the one of Legislation that @cooli3o cites, in the ayah we read that jews & christians have taken their rabbis and scholars as Rabb by believing that they had the right to legislate and overturn the hukm of Allah meaning they made their rabbis etc as partners to Allah in His legislation.
Now if that was the condition of jews & christians who had with them some part of revelation what about the pagan quraysh who didn't have any? Which legislation/hukm were they ruling with amongst themselves ? How can we then affirm tawheed rububiyyah to pagan arabs when they didn't believe in nor rule by Allah's Legislation ?
Imagine claiming that Allah revealed his hukm for us muslims but not for pagan arabs because apparently these pagans weren't guilty of not adhering to His laws or that they didn't ascribe partners to Allah in His legislation. This is nothing short of absurdity ruunti
In the grave the first question we will be asked is who is our rabb, so the mushriks will be able to answer after all they had tawheed rububiyyah according to najdi dawah.
Hamzza
VIP
Which Salafis said Christians and Jews did not believe their monks are rabbs other than Allah? I'm not familiar with Christian and Jews theology so i cant approve or deny plus its irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Who claimed Allahs lordship is restricted to creating and the other stuff you mentioned they made Shirk in rububiyyah by believing the ahkam of their monks are more appropriate and can bring better results than the Sharia of Allah.
As for the Tawheed of Rububiyyah and Uluhiyyah not necessarily being inclusive of each other. Its not najd concept as scholars like Ibn Kathir who is Shami believed and spoke about it centuries before the rise of the Najd dawah.
ولئن سألتهم من خلق السماوات والأرض وسخر الشمس والقمر ليقولن الله ۖ فأنى يؤفكون
Ibn Kathir commenting on this ayah said:
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
Except that the pagans didn't believe they were just mere intermediaries, they believed their gods had powers and had direct influence in their affairs. In 39:3 we read that the mushriks took their gods as their wali ie protector & they worshipped them directly & In 39:36 we read that they threatened the Prophet with their gods
The mushriks claim that they worshipped them to get closer to Allah is a false one and a excuse to silence criticism of their worship of others. In the quran & hadith we learn that the mushriks used to insult Allah for their idols, rejoice at the mention of their gods over Allah, assign greater portion of their crops & livestock to their idols than to Allah, attributed victory over Allah to their gods
Do not insult those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge” (6:108).
When Allah is mentioned alone, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter recoil with aversion; but when those [worshipped] other than Him are mentioned, immediately they rejoice (39:45)
And they assign to Allah a share of the crops and livestock He created, saying, ‘This much is for Allah’—so they claim!—‘and this much is for our “partners” .’ However, the share of their “partners” never gets back to Allah , while Allah’s share just goes to their “partners” how badly they judge!” (6:136)
In the Battle of Uḥud, when Abū Sufyān said,
“May Hubal be exalted!”
The Messenger of Allah ﷺ asked the Ṣaḥāba to reply to him with, “Allah is more Elevated and Majestic.” To which Abū Sufyān responded, “We Have al-ʿUzzā, while you have no ʿUzzā.” To which the Prophet ﷺ asked the Ṣaḥāba to respond, “Allah is our Helper, while you have no Helper.” (Reported by al-Bukhārī.)
Worship is not just about the external actions that a person does, it's about the beliefs a person has that they ascribe to the being that they perform these external actions for.
We worship Allah because He is the Lord of all existence, it is His Lordship that makes Him worthy of worship. Similarly when other gods are worshipped besides Allah, it is because the worshipper of these gods have attributed some aspects of Lordship to them and worship them as a result of this belief.
