How tribalism is being used to undermine our shared ethnicity.

[Barkhadle1520]

1. Yes, I’ve actually shared that exact map before. It doesn’t contradict my point , it supports it. The map shows how both the coastal and interior regions were referred to under the umbrella of Mogadishu. It clearly links them as a single political-cultural unit, which is consistent with historical accounts that describe a powerful inland-extending polity with Mogadishu as its urban and commercial hub.




2. No one is claiming that there was a state named “Ajuran” as a unified, formal, imperial institution that stretched coast-to-coast under one ruler. What was passed down and often misunderstood is more likely the recollection of an interconnected system of administration, tax collection, and political cohesion. The name Ajuran, as I’ve explained before, was likely a nickname or title for tax administrators, and not the official name of a polity.

The screen I posted was to show you that Ajuran = taxation in Arabic , that’s the core etymology.

I never quoted Aydarus. The thread i linked show's Lee Cassanelli’s work, who cites actual Arabic historical documents held by Southern Somali families. These aren’t myths, these are documented local histories, preserved in writing.

View attachment 364808

And here:



3. The existence of an Imam ruling the interior is corroborated by a Portuguese letter from 1624.

View attachment 364809


What the locals were trying to explain was a bureaucratic administration that was engaged in taxation, coordination of production, and governance across a wide region.

We’ve seen a similar structure in Adal, where Imam Ahmed Gurey deployed officials to collect taxes and manage production among both herders and farmers. This type of governance was not limited to military conquest but included highly organized internal administration.
View attachment 364830

Additionally, titles found on tombs like “Awal Amir,” “Naib Sammow,” and others provide further evidence of an administrative hierarchy rooted in both religious and political authority. These weren’t just symbolic names they represented actual functions within a broader governance system that linked coast and interior.

View attachment 364832

This all points to a governance model during the medieval period one that deserves far more scholarly attention than the dismissive “Ajuran myth” label often thrown at it.

It's something that is clearly also seen in when you look at Futuh and other written sources from that period:

''The written sources of the fifteenth to sixteenth centuries show a hierarchized, complex society that included several administrative and political titles, as well as the existence of elites
View attachment 364834

Youre jure repeating the same thing I say and you misunderstood me

Just forget about this ajuran thing nio, iska iloow


There was a civilization in the south, I never denied that

On the Juba as well as the shabelle, it just lacks documentation and archeological research way more than the north, + the ruins are victim of erosion from the nearby rivers and are hidden by denser vegetation

Between these coasts and the mountains inland are cities and settlements, and along the river — which flows through this region — are fifty settlements, each inhabited, some large and others small. Among them are towns of 5,000 to 7,000 souls, others with 500 to 1,000, and others with only a few hundred." "Trade flows from these towns toward Aden, and from there to Mecca and further. The road from Saylac to ‘Adan (Aden) is well-trodden and known, and takes several days. The people here trade in gold, ivory, camels, and aromatic gums. Boats sail from here to Jeddah, and the inhabitants are Muslims, learned in matters of religion."

 

[Idilinaa]

Youre jure repeating the same thing I say and you misunderstood me

Just forget about this ajuran thing nio, iska iloow


There was a civilization in the south, I never denied that

On the Juba as well as the shabelle, it just lacks documentation and archeological research way more than the north, + the ruins are victim of erosion from the nearby rivers and are hidden by denser vegetation

Between these coasts and the mountains inland are cities and settlements, and along the river — which flows through this region — are fifty settlements, each inhabited, some large and others small. Among them are towns of 5,000 to 7,000 souls, others with 500 to 1,000, and others with only a few hundred." "Trade flows from these towns toward Aden, and from there to Mecca and further. The road from Saylac to ‘Adan (Aden) is well-trodden and known, and takes several days. The people here trade in gold, ivory, camels, and aromatic gums. Boats sail from here to Jeddah, and the inhabitants are Muslims, learned in matters of religion."

View attachment 364863

We are in agreement. I am just saying Ajanabi scholars misrepresented what Somalis were telling them that they just remembered people with administrative titles governing them with armies, putting them to work and levying taxes from them, that it was a region wide system. They just got caught up on this ajuuran name that they completely missed it .

Thats an Amazing find. We have direct description that there were many settlements, cities and towns in the interior that are linked with eachother through trade with the coast and in the riverrerine regions.

It also says:
"Among these towns are known ones, each with different populations, and they are numerous in trade and production."

It's always really surprising to read these descriptions and then seeing the ruins left behind, because it almost sounds like the collapse of trade, production and the mass abandonment/destruction must have been some apocalyptic event.

It really must have been similar to the Roman empires collapse i shared in another thread a while back : watch from @2:09



Transcripts:

Thus , the 27 years of war, the famine and the plague, had utterly reduced the population of Italy, entire cities were abandoned, Mediolanum for example was completely razed in 539, even Rome stood almost empty at some point in the 550s after being sacked numerous times in that lenghty war, the old roman infrastructure that was still perfectly intact in the Ostrogothic Kingdom now was given price to unchecked decay, street networks cumbled.... Aqueducts were falling into disuse left and right, many cities had to rely on frech water from rivers and wells such as in Rome for example, where the population was henceforth concentrated near the Tiber river and all other parts of the humongous city were left completely abandoned.

A similar picture would occur in the whole of Italy. The population now being so utterly reduced compared to only some decades earlier, would now retreat to small cores in the once big cities or to the countryside. Small dwellings would now have to do , the living standards fell dramatically. Where stoned housing with bricks and mortar had been standard, now small wooden shakcks .....such as for example nicely visible theater of Marcellus in Rome , where people had built their dwellings into this once mighty amphiteater , now replaced the previous domus and insula structures. Wood construction had in many parts completely replaced stone and mortar housing, especially for private dwellings. Churches were now the only structures that were still built out of solid stone, but even here we can witness how much smaller they had become in those times , as archeological evidence from Italy shows.

Life became more rural, the old urbanized society had started to vanish. Trade would collapse in many parts, so that food had to be produced locally. Peasants would often start sowing their feilds amids the old towering decaying buildings of the old imperial times.

You start to see a lot of parallels with what happened throughout the Somali regions.

The part about food needed to be produced locally as trade collapsed, explains even Aden's decline as well because it was also depended on the food and trade that went through the Somali regions.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

We are in agreement. I am just saying Ajanabi scholars misrepresented what Somalis were telling them that they just remembered people with administrative titles governing them with armies, putting them to work and levying taxes from them, that it was a region wide system. They just got caught up on this ajuuran name that they completely missed it .

Thats an Amazing find. We have direct description that there were many settlements, cities and towns in the interior that are linked with eachother through trade with the coast and in the riverrerine regions.

It also says:
"Among these towns are known ones, each with different populations, and they are numerous in trade and production."

It's really surprising to read this , because it almost sounds like the collapse of trade, production and the mass abandonment/destruction must have been some apocalyptic event.

It really must have been similar to the Roman empires collapse i shared in another thread a while back : watch from @2:09



Transcripts:




It also explains Aden's decline as well because it was also depended on the food and trade that went through the Somali regions.

Whatever you think happened it was way worse, balaayo times wallahi

 

[Idilinaa]

Btw @Barkhadle1520
I've been meaning to ask you or others what you think about my categorization/grouping of Somali history. Into two separate periods.

The Era of Amirs - 800-1650
(A period in which political and economic power was largely held by state formations led by Amirs centralized authorities, dynasties, and sultanates that shaped much of the region’s development and external relations.)

An emir was like a mini-sultan who presided over his region/or district.

One of the supremacy battles between Emir Mansur and Emir Abun, with Emir Abun being victorious

The Era of Shayukhs - 1700-1930
(Following the collapse or weakening of those earlier states, Sufi orders and religious networks led by influential Shaykhs became the dominant social and political institutions.)

 

[Idilinaa]

Btw @Barkhadle1520
I've been meaning to ask you or others what you think about my categorization/grouping of Somali history. Into two separate periods.

The Era of Amirs - 800-1650
(A period in which political and economic power was largely held by state formations led by Amirs centralized authorities, dynasties, and sultanates that shaped much of the region’s development and external relations)








The Era of Shayukhs - 1700-1930
(Following the collapse or weakening of those earlier states, Sufi orders and religious networks led by influential Shaykhs became the dominant social and political institutions)

When it comes to the sufi orders. These religious structures filled the vacuum left by the fallen states, much like the Catholic Church did in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire.

 

[Idilinaa]

Whatever you think happened it was way worse, balaayo times wallahi

I've only seen a few excerpts shared by Hornaristocrat from Tarikh al-Mulūk, but even from those fragments, you can vaguely start to trace key patterns and developments.

It would be incredibly valuable to compile and synthesize these scattered historical sources from Arabic chronicles to traditions, to travelogues and record books and then cross-reference them with archaeological findings. Doing so could help build a more coherent and evidence based historical narrative of the Somali regions and their political and cultural evolution.

There’s so much potential in combining textual analysis with material evidence , especially when many written records remain underexplored or untranslated.

 

[sh-89]

Gotta love it when Somalis think their clan is an ethnicity or unique identity. Wallahi you never see Scottish people or Turks arguing which clan/tribe ruled their kingdoms. This is petty nonsense.

No offense to you but I cant stand when people say "we only do this others don't" its wrong. They absolutely do. There are divisions amongst religions, race etc.

Yes they do. Please dont fall for this trap. I used the term balkanization which refers to the same issue with countries arguing. For example Stalin who was a key figure in USSR was from Georgia. Napoleon was from Corsica and was Italian origin but is known for being one of the most famous French conqueror etc. He wouldn't even be considered French if he was born today. So France was ruled by a Italian man. If that makes sense. Obama ruled America is he is from Kenyan/ I think Irish background. Shias, Sunnis, Kurds etc all argue about ruling in the M.E. This isn't unique to Somalis.

Borders change and people end up arguing. Having people live in a nations made up of bad borders leads to this. Its like having a forced marriage that doesn't work and not being able to divorce. Nations literally have to go through genocide to be recognized like South Sudan. There are thousands of groups who want their own nation.

 

[sh-89]

It is important to note that over 80% of Reer Xamar identify as ethnic Somalis. Reer Xamar itself is best understood as a cultural, rather than strictly ethnic, identity. This is precisely why I referred to “Reer Xamar (including Cadcad communities).” The presence of ethnic minorities within Reer Xamar does not render them any less Somali. To disregard or erase their historical and cultural contributions is neither accurate nor intellectually sound. In everyday discourse, most individuals I encounter consider them simply as light-skinned Somalis who speak one of the distinctive Benadiri dialects. When framed this way, much of the politically charged rhetoric surrounding their identity is revealed to be little more than an extension of the familiar hyperbole of fadhi ku dirir.


That said, I do acknowledge that some members of the Cadcad minority within Reer Xamar may carry a sense of importance, likely stemming from the Italian colonial administration’s preferential treatment of lighter-skinned groups over their darker-skinned compatriots. This mirrors broader patterns within Somali history, such as the resentment felt by some communities over the Kacaan regime’s privileging of the Dervish legacy at the expense of other regional or clan-based historical struggle. Yet, the arrogance of certain individuals should not be used to diminish the contributions of the communities they belong to.


It is also worth noting that long-distance trade in the region was not confined to coastal actors alone. Non-Reer Xamar Somalis engaged actively in overland commerce via caravan routes, and the distinctive cultural identity that emerged in Xamar was made possible, in part, by their sustained input. Agricultural producers from the hinterland supplied much of the food consumed in the city. Trade networks flourished along the Shabelle River, extending as far as Harar. Historical records show correspondence between the rulers of Harar and those of Xamar, attesting to a vibrant and interconnected commercial world. Whether conducted by ship or caravan, trade is trade; the mode of transport does not confer superior value on one group over another.


Ultimately, the history of our ethnic and national identities need not be treated as a zero-sum game. If one were to embrace Reer Xamar as fellow citizens—integral to the Somali national narrative—it would not be difficult to celebrate their contributions and even take pride in the rich legacy of maritime commerce along our coast. I hope I have adequately addressed your post and I did not digress too much.

I agree with you and same applies to Bantus and every other minority tribe. They contribute a lot.

Is there evidence thst Italians preferred lighter skinned Somalis? I never heard of that. The issue is Somalia is not doing well and when a nation is not doing well economically you get higher rates of xenophobia, hatred for minorities etc. Look at Nazi Germany or Europe now blaming Muslims for everything going wrong. Minorities suffer. This isnt unique to Somalis.

Now true discrimination is when a nation is doing well economically and still oppresses. America was extremely rich during its gilded age while most black people were oppressed. We cant tell if Somalis are truly oppressive to minorities groups when all tribes are suffering. The West isnt morally superior they just have more to give.

Minority rights come after the host nation does well if that makes sense. If anything elevating reer xamar in this state might spell disaster for them. Look at Indians, White people in Africa, there is major tensions. The last thing we want is tribal war. We should ban tribalism in politics and just study it for history of our people. Kagame fixed Rwanda this way. Celebrating their history is great nothing beyond that. As long as they have access to the same opportunities as other Somalis.