How Tanzania avoided tribalism

[Malawax]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...405-8ec2-db9c37c2fd88/?utm_term=.08c465a995d5

 

[ALittleBitItalian]

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/how-tanzania-avoided-tribalism.33154/

 

[DR OSMAN]

That's absolutely bullshit. Tribalism is a fact no matter what policies u enact, yes you can curb it but you can't go into people heads and change them. They may not practise it outwardly but they sure do inwardly. A key proof is the west, they enact lots of laws to curb racism in it's institutions but it hardly works and we see racism is rife. It's cause u need to change the culture to end racism not enact laws to prevent it. You can't prevent something that is in someone head, they will find ways around it and practise it silently which send a bad vibe to other people who will resort to doing the same and begins this huge tension process to ensue which u see clearly in the west.

If the west couldn't do this over a long protracted period of time and even trump is facing it as we speak. How in the world did Tanzania achieve this? since it only began recently? plus it's a poor country already which means limited resources will add fuel to tribalism regardless if it's practised outwardly or inwardly. When there is only two breads left in town, I will resort automatically to evolution and see if I can take those breads for myself and family or group. Poverty fuels ignorance there is no question about it. Wealth doesn't since there is more then enough to go around and creates a sense of indepedence where u do not rely on group thinking. Africa hasn't reached that stage in it's development, it's poor and by definition should be tribal as hell.

Changing identity is a very long process. People call themselves reer bari cause it came from italian colonizers, but they will never unite on that identity and are tribal as hell. See tribe has taken full power regardless of the identity of BARI which was given to them by italians. Sool is a great one this was created recently by siyad barre, will u ever see them unite as 'reer sool' no look they break down into the reality the clans. Forget the 'somali' identity that was created in the 1960s, if we can't unite at state level identities, forget nation level identites. I argue change is a long process and not as simple as adopting new identities, it takes centuries and we simply don't have that time and need to work with what is the reality on the ground rather then change it. I say build Somalia using it's xeer system which uses 'tribe' and gears it towards 'positive' outcomes. It doesn't sit there and try to change it, it works with the reality.

Infact I think the tribal xeer was developed to address the new identity people started using 'tribe' and it took centuries and centuries for it too be accepted. I suspect Somalis before tribe became the cornerstone identity were grouped into 'professions' like bimaal, tumaal, sumaal, beeromaal, or whatever occupation. I think occupation was the break-down units for pre tribalism somalia and they must of had a different system to address it. This idea is further supported by the Greek travelogues.

Notice the key to the success of the system is how it uses the prevalent identities in the land and accomodates it and directs it to positiveness. Yesteryear when it was profession based identities they must've of had a system to address it as it was the key identity people attached too and from that created a system to compliment it and harmonize it and lead into 'development' thru cooperation between different professions. Then tribe came and we have the Xeer which fosters cooperation across clan lines.

Then we started adding more identities like 'state' identities and this hasn't created anything positive and people fail to unite around it or cooperate, it's a waste and should be discarded. Then we created a nation identity and we saw the failures there. It's cause we are refusing to accomodate what the people truly believe and refer back to existing systems that are proven to work and creates cooperation among tribes. All we want is them to cooperate nothing else, how they do so doesn't really matter. Why do you care if they cooperate thru parties or state identities or somali identity? don't you just care they cooperate and if they feel better cooperating at tribe level, bring in the damn Xeer and make it official, at least we know xeer works we have proof of it in rural areas.

For example I don't care if you call yourself MJ or Hawiye, I want u to compete thru development, how do we ensure that happens? bring in Xeer as this is respected by both and a unity document. Now settle all issues thru it and form policies and guidance thru it. It will be far more well recieved then 'political parties' and more nonsensical identities that will never unite people other then at a 'superficial' level but inside they will be tribal as hell.

The doctor would love to challenge this article, where all the spotters, please add your contribution

 

[Haji]

That's absolutely bullshit. Tribalism is a fact no matter what policies u enact, yes you can curb it but you can't go into people heads and change them. They may not practise it outwardly but they sure do inwardly. A key proof is the west, they enact lots of laws to curb racism in it's institutions but it hardly works and we see racism is rife. It's cause u need to change the culture to end racism not enact laws to prevent it. You can't prevent something that is in someone head, they will find ways around it and practise it silently which send a bad vibe to other people who will resort to doing the same and begins this huge tension process to ensue which u see clearly in the west.

If the west couldn't do this over a long protracted period of time and even trump is facing it as we speak. How in the world did Tanzania achieve this? since it only began recently? plus it's a poor country already which means limited resources will add fuel to tribalism regardless if it's practised outwardly or inwardly. When there is only two breads left in town, I will resort automatically to evolution and see if I can take those breads for myself and family or group. Poverty fuels ignorance there is no question about it. Wealth doesn't since there is more then enough to go around and creates a sense of indepedence where u do not rely on group thinking. Africa hasn't reached that stage in it's development, it's poor and by definition should be tribal as hell.

Changing identity is a very long process. People call themselves reer bari cause it came from italian colonizers, but they will never unite on that identity and are tribal as hell. See tribe has taken full power regardless of the identity of BARI which was given to them by italians. Sool is a great one this was created recently by siyad barre, will u ever see them unite as 'reer sool' no look they break down into the reality the clans. Forget the 'somali' identity that was created in the 1960s, if we can't unite at state level identities, forget nation level identites. I argue change is a long process and not as simple as adopting new identities, it takes centuries and we simply don't have that time and need to work with what is the reality on the ground rather then change it. I say build Somalia using it's xeer system which uses 'tribe' and gears it towards 'positive' outcomes. It doesn't sit there and try to change it, it works with the reality.

Infact I think the tribal xeer was developed to address the new identity people started using 'tribe' and it took centuries and centuries for it too be accepted. I suspect Somalis before tribe became the cornerstone identity were grouped into 'professions' like bimaal, tumaal, sumaal, beeromaal, or whatever occupation. I think occupation was the break-down units for pre tribalism somalia and they must of had a different system to address it. This idea is further supported by the Greek travelogues.

Notice the key to the success of the system is how it uses the prevalent identities in the land and accomodates it and directs it to positiveness. Yesteryear when it was profession based identities they must've of had a system to address it as it was the key identity people attached too and from that created a system to compliment it and harmonize it and lead into 'development' thru cooperation between different professions. Then tribe came and we have the Xeer which fosters cooperation across clan lines.

Then we started adding more identities like 'state' identities and this hasn't created anything positive and people fail to unite around it or cooperate, it's a waste and should be discarded. Then we created a nation identity and we saw the failures there. It's cause we are refusing to accomodate what the people truly believe and refer back to existing systems that are proven to work and creates cooperation among tribes. All we want is them to cooperate nothing else, how they do so doesn't really matter. Why do you care if they cooperate thru parties or state identities or somali identity? don't you just care they cooperate and if they feel better cooperating at tribe level, bring in the damn Xeer and make it official, at least we know xeer works we have proof of it in rural areas.

For example I don't care if you call yourself MJ or Hawiye, I want u to compete thru development, how do we ensure that happens? bring in Xeer as this is respected by both and a unity document. Now settle all issues thru it and form policies and guidance thru it. It will be far more well recieved then 'political parties' and more nonsensical identities that will never unite people other then at a 'superficial' level but inside they will be tribal as hell.

The doctor would love to challenge this article, where all the spotters, please add your contribution

Xeer is definitely the way to go and has kept the peace of our lands for thousands of years.

And yes change comes from the culture, and what people REALLY do.

It's so easy for someone to say they're anti-tribal in speeches or in public. Who're the first people they go to when there's a crisis?

They go to their local qabil elder!

What happens when someone in their family or cousing is killed?

They consult with their elder and rally to get their qabil's support!

Not the government.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Xeer is definitely the way to go and has kept the peace of our lands for thousands of years.

And yes change comes from the culture, and what people REALLY do.

It's so easy for someone to say they're anti-tribal in speeches or in public. Who're the first people they go to when there's a crisis?

They go to their local qabil elder!

What happens when someone in their family or cousing is killed?

They consult with their elder and rally to get their qabil's support!

Not the government.

The more we hide it the more we conceal it, the more suspicions rise and people reverting to it. It's better to put on the table and say this is the 'reality', no more denial, no more masks, no more created fantasies that never worked. It's on the 'table'. Then reach the acceptance stage, without accepting it, we are heading into denial territory and denial territory creates 'masks n constumes'. That's how I see the shabab, political parties, regional admins, states, somali identity, all damn masks and costumes and we know it's costumes and masks we know what's behind it 'tribe'. So strip down all the layers we added and lets not add more layers and go straight to business 'tribe'.

Who cares if we organize around parties, or regions, or somali, workers, business unions, religions, or any other group. Aren't they just 'groups' at the end of day? Tribe is group also. Why can we tame the other groups but not tame Tribe and put it towards a path of development and cooperation.

Americans just rioted between democrats and republicans over trump election. Do they say let's dump democracy and create another system. There was negative symptoms that showed up, tribe has negative symptoms yes but we shouldn't just dump it for that reason. Every system has negative system but it comes down to how it's used for either good or bad. If it wasn't for tribe we would be dead today after govt collapsed, no1 acknowledges that.

 

[Haji]

The more we hide it the more we conceal it, the more suspicions rise and people reverting to it. It's better to put on the table and say this is the 'reality', no more denial, no more masks, no more created fantasies that never worked. It's on the 'table'. Then reach the acceptance stage, without accepting it, we are heading into denial territory and denial territory creates 'masks n constumes'. That's how I see the shabab, political parties, regional admins, states, somali identity, all damn masks and costumes and we know it's costumes and masks we know what's behind it 'tribe'. So strip down all the layers we added and lets not add more layers and go straight to business 'tribe'.

Who cares if we organize around parties, or regions, or somali, workers, business unions, religions, or any other group. Aren't they just 'groups' at the end of day? Tribe is group also. Why can we tame the other groups but not tame Tribe and put it towards a path of development and cooperation.

Americans just rioted between democrats and republicans over trump election. Do they say let's dump democracy and create another system. There was negative symptoms that showed up, tribe has negative symptoms yes but we shouldn't just dump it for that reason. Every system has negative system but it comes down to how it's used for either good or bad. If it wasn't for tribe we would be dead today after govt collapsed, no1 acknowledges that.

Wallahi if it weren't for qabil, somalis would be landless, penniless, and in an even worser condition than they are today.

Qabil has kept groups of somalis closer together compared to any other institution.