How should the Somali nation be shaped?

[Knaan99]

A combination between federalism and Unitary, I dont know why Somali people cant accept this all wanting a shitty plot of land in useless red desertA


Unitary vs Federal map from wikipedia:
View attachment 318990
Green is federal whilist blue is unitary, If Congo with millions of ethnic groups can pull it off why cant we? It makes sense with countries with a lot of ethnic groups and landmass like russia, america and ethiopia but we are 1 people and 1 religion,

View attachment 318991

This is another good picture from the wikipedia which should be referenced while you vote.

And look, im not saying devolving power is bad, it should be done in smaller regions on a local scale.

I agree with the combo.
However, federalism with a stronger FGS is way to go in the meantime. Hence why I support the recent changes in the constitution.
Unitary system will move things quickly, but at the same time a crazy guy could take over before a strong institutions/deep state is build and destroy years/decades of hard work.

A slow but a steady nation building project beats a quick recovery and a 7%-10% growth like under meles was only for everything to start crumbling when an incompetent guy takes over.

When deep states develops, the deep state will naturally will want to centralize and protect the state at all cost, while the group in charge will not mind that because no one will say no to more power. But like I said, a fed system will do for now.

The world is changing very quickly and anti-immigration and anti-giving none stop aid to shthole countries sentiments are growing rapidly.
HSM and Somali elites need to speed up the process tbh. If we don’t have a semi proper state in the next few years we’re so finished.

 

[Aseer]

You know I would like to see how fucking failed Somalia would be if we divided into 5 seperate desert shit holes whilist you all pray for oil, a dying resource durr d, At least we would get an award for most states split between one ethnicity with one religion.

You know how it should be shaped? Full Centralist Unitary Military Dictatorship which will peacefully transisition into a proper government with centralism and federalism on a local scale like China and other proper countries.

That was tried before and ended badly, our system is too qabiilist so rather we do the opposite and appease the qabiilists then transition into something semi federal and provincial rather than qabiilist.

 

[Aseer]

For those supporting federalism, how many federal states should there be? Or are the ones we have now good enough?

The ones we have are good enough but we should also ensure the division of power is a bit more equal and balanced in each gobol so for example like bari which consists of caluula, qandala, boosaaso etc.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

a non existent system,

Ergo its being unique. It demands ingenuity.

 

[Dooro]

Central government for now, federalism would never work.

 

[Yami]

Federation with high autonomy. Confederacy doesn't make sense for Somalia clan borders interlap a lot especially in the deep south.


A return to centralism should be avoided at all costs.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

Confedaration with hard borders till the possibility of balkanization. Only freedom of trade allowed. Other then that, I don't want to see anyone.

 

[Macawisley]

HS

Subxanallah.

We Hiiraanians want nothing more than to decentralise from Ugandishu. Don’t take us back by saying we want centralism.

It just Reer Cadale & Kaaran that wants centralism now, The minute the capital is relocated however then they will only want federalism

 

[DR OSMAN]

I want a federalism but modelled after puntland as that has a local character and supports my political philosophy to do a revival of neo traditional structures not absurd foreign models experiments whether its western, eastern or middle eastern as its not a good fit for us as we tried foreign copy cat models and it dont last longer then 30 years as we saw with the colonial inherited civilian government nor did the communism and populism experiment of a one man state benefit us nor did it even compliment our local clan culture or wada tashi values.

If I can't get Somalis to be confident in neo traditionalism and their own culture and history and they still feel obligated to copy and paste foreign structures then I'd settle for a federalism that has local characteristics in the PL variety and if we can't agree on federalism then a confederation model will do best.

Centralism is the worst system repeating the past and expecting a different result is absolute madness and secessionist even tho an attractive option isnt feasibly possible in the the UN rules based order system which all countries are obligated to uphold for their own interest so no country violates their border and kick start a race where all borders can be questioned.

 

[ggoat]

A combination between federalism and Unitary, I dont know why Somali people cant accept this all wanting a shitty plot of land in useless red desertA


Unitary vs Federal map from wikipedia:
View attachment 318990
Green is federal whilist blue is unitary, If Congo with millions of ethnic groups can pull it off why cant we? It makes sense with countries with a lot of ethnic groups and landmass like russia, america and ethiopia but we are 1 people and 1 religion,

View attachment 318991

This is another good picture from the wikipedia which should be referenced while you vote.

And look, im not saying devolving power is bad, it should be done in smaller regions on a local scale.

Isn’t Congo and all these African countries examples of bad governments? We want to prevent our resources being looted and our people remaining poor.

 

[ggoat]

how does advocating for centralism benefit external actors? In which way are your brain cells connecting to come to that absolutely silly and baseless conclusion. Before I fully dive into debunking that silly posting, I want to see if you are willing to change

Many central governments engage in agreements that allow other countries to exploit their people's resources, often leading to the benefit of those other nations. Additionally, they are more inclined to embezzle state resources, abuse their power, and commit acts of violence against their citizens, especially in African countries.

 

[Bazed]

Good thinking, but states are too large and must further be subdivided

Possible. We could have administration zones to further divide the workload. However all of this has to be elected by local people in order for it to work. If power is still in the 4.5 then none of this works as the voice of local communities won't be heard.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Subxanallah.

We Hiiraanians want nothing more than to decentralise from Ugandishu. Don’t take us back by saying we want centralism.

Are you thinking more along the lines of Hiran? If so, yes I would agree, and do envisage, under the right leadership, Hiran eventually becoming a State by its own right,

It just Reer Cadale & Kaaran that wants centralism now, The minute the capital is relocated however then they will only want federalism

but whilst Sh Dhexe is still beholden to Xamar, it'll take time. I would like to see ex-Banadir incl. Sh. Dhexe & Hose as a State, and a designated territory off for a Capital.

 

[Aseer]

@Three Moons what do you suggest?

 

[mohamedismail]

I think federal system is best for us now. And then slowly transition to a centralised system eventually.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

I think federal system is best for us now. And then slowly transition to a centralised system eventually.

Other way around, Somalia is way to far behind to struggle through beaucratic process just to end up being invaded since we are so weak

 

[Dooro]

Other way around, Somalia is way to far behind to struggle through beaucratic process just to end up being invaded since we are so weak

Exactly, people don't realize it would take us centuries to develop individually, better off under one rule. Also we're homogeneous so we should act that way, centralized government, standardized language, nationalized resources, etc

 

[SamaaleCushite]

I support Puntland becoming independent sovereign nation. But if that's not possible, then I'd pick confederation as the second best option.

confederation or even better federalism is best for short term but in long term once we are more educated we should seek more unity. Also confederation means independent nations divided but share similar principles. That wont work, however if you mean true federalism with one overall representative beholden to federal states then it can work.

 

[Three Moons]

@Three Moons what do you suggest?

Ideally as a Nation with a dominant ethnicity, language, culture and religion, the logical option would be central governance in a unitary state like Turkey, Japan, Austria or France. However, because of a lack of political maturity, low-trust and the aftermath of a dictatorship, the next best thing would be federalism like Germany.

Unfortunately, all political systems will fail until the root causes are addressed and genuine reconciliation commences.

 

[Aseer]

Ideally as a Nation with a dominant ethnicity, language, culture and religion, the logical option would be central governance in a unitary state like Turkey, Japan, Austria or France. However, because of a lack of political maturity, low-trust and the aftermath of a dictatorship, the next best thing would be federalism like Germany.

Unfortunately, all political systems will fail until the root causes are addressed and genuine reconciliation commences.

I read from somewhere that the mittlesand German economy structure that made them what they are today fits very well with Somalia and if combined with federalism and good governance oh and as well as ordoliberalism we can be able to have a steady GDP growth and recovery but there's issues like making somalia view labour and trades as something good and to just do reconciliation for this to work.