How many people actually want to make hijrah?

[Amk]

Our prophet SAW didn’t consider people of the book mushriks so neither should we.

he Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺?
They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah,1 even though they were commanded to worship none but One God. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him. Glorified is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!
9:30-31

 

[Periplus]

Thats a lie. Please seek knowledge before you speak.

Surah al-ma’idah refers to the trinity as kufr not shirk.

Aya 73: Surely they disbelieve, those who put in God in a three.

The word kufr is used in the original Arabic.

The argument about whether Judaism and Christianity is shirk started after the death of Rasulullah SAW.

If you have any clear cut Hadith stating that ahlul kitab are mushriks, I’m happy to be proven wrong wallah.

 

[Amk]

Surah al-ma’idah refers to the trinity as kufr not shirk.

Aya 73: Surely they disbelieve, those who put in God in a three.

The word kufr is used in the original Arabic.

Kufr and shirk is the same meaning.
“And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allaah, any other ilaah (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, Al‑Kaafiroon (the disbelievers in Allaah and in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:117]
Allah mentiones them commiting shirk by making dua to other Gods, is referred to as kuffar

 

[Amk]

Surah al-ma’idah refers to the trinity as kufr not shirk.

Aya 73: Surely they disbelieve, those who put in God in a three.

The word kufr is used in the original Arabic.

The argument about whether Judaism and Christianity is shirk started after the death of Rasulullah SAW.

If you have any clear cut Hadith stating that ahlul kitab are mushriks, I’m happy to be proven wrong wallah.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, refuting those who say that the word mushrikeen cannot be applied to the People of the Book:

It is most likely that the people of the Book are included among the mushrikeen, men and women alike, when this word is used in general terms. because the kuffaar are undoubtedly mushrikeen. Hence they are forbidden to enter al-Masjid al-Haraam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe (in Allaah’s Oneness and in His Messenger Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, and in the Message of Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al‑Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah) after this year”

[al-Tawbah 9:28]

If the People of the Book did not come under the general heading of mushrikeen, then this verse would not apply to them, and Allaah would not have referred to the beliefs of the Jews and Christians in Soorat Baraa’ah (al-Tawbah) where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

So they are all described as mushrikeen, because the Jews said that ‘Uzayr is the son of God and the Christians said that the Messiah is the son of God; and because they took their priests and rabbis as lords instead of Allaah. All of this is the worst form of shirk. And there are many similar verses. End quote.

 

[Periplus]

Kufr and shirk is the same meaning.

Okay, this is fundamentally wrong. There is a massive difference between kufr and shirk.

 

[Amk]

Surah al-ma’idah refers to the trinity as kufr not shirk.

Aya 73: Surely they disbelieve, those who put in God in a three.

The word kufr is used in the original Arabic.

The argument about whether Judaism and Christianity is shirk started after the death of Rasulullah SAW.

If you have any clear cut Hadith stating that ahlul kitab are mushriks, I’m happy to be proven wrong wallah.

The Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

It is also shirk to worship only something other than Allaah. This is called shirk, and it is called kufr. Whoever turns away from Allaah altogether and devotes his worship to something other than Allaah, such as trees, rocks, idols, the jinn or some of the dead such as those whom they call awliya’ (“saints”), and worship them, pray to them or fast for them, and forget Allaah altogether, this is the worst form of kufr and shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly those who deny the existence of Allaah and say that there is no god, that life is only material, such as the communists and atheists, are the most disbelieving and misguided of people, and the worst in terms of shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. The point is that people who hold these and similar beliefs are all regarded as mushrikeen and kaafirs who disbelieve in Allaah. Some people, out of ignorance, mistakenly regard calling upon the dead and seeking their help as waseelah and think that it is permissible. This is a serious error, because this action is one of the worst forms of shirk and associating others with Allaah. Some ignorant people and mushrikeen call it waseelah, but it is the religion of the mushrikeen whom Allaah criticized and condemned. He sent the Messenger and revealed His Books to denounce it and warn against it. End quote.

 

[Amk]

Okay, this is fundamentally wrong. There is a massive difference between kufr and shirk.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

 

[Periplus]

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

Yes, both kufr and shirk take one out of the fold of Islam and is disbelief.

But there is a big big difference between these two things in terms of severity.

 

[Periplus]

@Amk I asked for a Hadith from rasulullah SAW.

We know during his time that the Christians believed in the trinity yet he never called them mushriks.

Every quote referring to them as mushriks comes after the death of the prophet PBUH.

 

[Amk]

Yes, both kufr and shirk take one out of the fold of Islam and is disbelief.

But there is a big big difference between these two things in terms of severity.

Look.
Every kaafir is a mushrik
Every mushrik is a kaafir
Ive given u all the evidence from the Quran and statements from scholars
All people from the book are mushriks
denying this would mean they are muslims
The only people of the book that arent mushriks are the ones from the past b4 they got corrupted

 

[Amk]

@Amk I asked for a Hadith from rasulullah SAW.

We know during his time that the Christians believed in the trinity yet he never called them mushriks.

Every quote referring to them as mushriks comes after the death of the prophet PBUH.

Allah called jews and christians mushrikoon but you want a hadith now?
Is Allahs words not enough for you

 

[World]

Brother, I have been there. You'll just go round in circles cos there is no way out.

Yeah, what we are doing in the West is live a facade if one claims to be a practising Muslim. The majority of Somalis in the West do not even fulfill the Hadith regarding seeking Cilm, sanctuary etc. They or their parents came here principally because it gave them an opportunity for a better life, not because they couldn't find sanctuary as it could have been found in one's Tuulo or Mii when the Civil War struck.

Secondly, we are constantly making religious sacrifices by living here. Wanna drive a car, pay Riba in the form of insurance. Wanna educate yourself, take a Riba loan. Wanna home for you and the Mrs, taking a mortgage and lying to get social housing seem the go to options. But, but there is 'Xalal Mortgages', my ass. There is a shop that will sell you any fatwa you seek so you may bury your conscience.

Can't pay the bills on your own, get a working sister to share the load despite the Deen been clear that the onus is on you and it being haram for your wife to work in most jobs where they end up mixing with non-mahrams. Sheikh Fatwa said it is Xalal!

Can't have a good quality of life and raise wholesome kids if there are too many of them, well we will just have to have three etc. and stick a coil up the Mrs. Off to the Fatwa Shop again!

Paying tax is the law of the land but what if a pound or dollar that you pay contributes towards a bomb being dropped on a village in some random Muslim country? Wasn't me!

Can't open a bank account because Riba is ubiquitous in the financial system. There is more I can add but you get my drift.

That being said, what is the alternative? Riba is everywhere you go. 'Muslim' countries are not exactly ruled according to Sharia or else they themselves would not be tied to a Riba based global financial system. Fitna is everywhere from a dogmatic viewpoint. Anarchy reigns in our homeland and many people back there are more immoral than Westerners when it comes to earning their daily bread. The honey or ghee seller with 8 kids will dilute his products to make ends meet etc. It is one big shit show.

The only way out is to go back to basics like the Hadith of the Prophet SAWS stated regarding the time of fitnah; become a shepherd and live by what Allah grants you in a secluded setting. Let us keep it real though, do you have survival life skills to do that if you were raised in a house with flushing toilets. How many of us hypocritical outwardly pious Muslims will live by their ideals and renounce their Western passports? Even many of those that find Gulf jobs etc. return at some point for their kids education etc.

For what it's worth, I ain't telling you to give up. There will be a time of reckoning in the West too, this relative luxury people find themselves in is due for a reset as nothing good lasts forever. However, apart from going to live like our ancestors did, there is no real escape from the pervasive fitnah that dominates the world.

Please get some real skills on the side bro nonetheless, you are still young. Things like growing your own food, basic carpentry skills etc. At least if you do decide to off grid, you can fend for yourself. If Cadaans can do it, so can we!

You don’t want to give up the luxury of the west, so you’ve convinced yourself that raising your children in a country where they will grow up learning that being a fagg0t, tranny, dh!lo is perfectly fine and encouraged is not different to growing up in a Muslim country where the athaan is on the speakers five times a day because the Muslim government engages in riba? Lmao. Look, everyone can live the life they want, but don’t act like you’re some enlightened religious guy when it’s just your desires speaking. You don’t have to choose between being a damn nomad and living in the west.

 

[Periplus]

Allah called jews and christians mushrikoon but you want a hadith now?
Is Allahs words not enough for you

No, Surah al maidah refers to trinity believers as kufr.

Please re-attach the Quranic proof that says Christians and Jews are Mushrikoon. I must have not of seen it.

 

[anonimo]

You don’t want to give up the luxury of the west, so you’ve convinced yourself that raising your children in a country where they will grow up learning that being a fagg0t, tranny, dh!lo is perfectly fine and encouraged is not different to growing up in a Muslim country where the athaan is on the speakers five times a day because the Muslim government engages in riba? Lmao. Look, everyone can live the life they want, but don’t act like you’re some enlightened religious guy when it’s just your desires speaking. You don’t have to choose between being a damn nomad and living in the west.

Seems you are lacking in reading comprehension skills.

I emphasised that fitnah is everywhere and their is no perfect getaway. My last post in this thread also to @reer made it plain that something is better than nothing regarding living in a Muslim country over the West but to be truly free of fitnah or riba etc., one has to go off-grid was the crux of my argument.

Secondly, I never claimed to be holier than thou, there are many threads where I have emphasised how I balance my faith.

Lastly, I don't need lecturing on my religiosity from someone that believes oral sex is permissible between a married couple.

 

[anonimo]

Bro I just literally made a account because of this comment you wrote.

Wallahi you're 100% spot on. I didn't know there was more brothers who understood what was going on in the world.

We as believers are literally trapped and there has never been a time like this since the time of the Prophet (saw). Like for me, right now I work as a consultant for a big tech company as a 21 year old and my goal is to move to one of these gulf countries ( UAE preferably.) I know the fitna which lies in these countries as well but honestly I can't see no better option for my future family.

My dream would be to get to one of the two holy cities (Mecca and Medina) but even then Allah knows best if thats even possible. At the end of day, it should always be the intention of a believer to make hijrah and make his intention sincere by preparing for it. We just have to have trust in Allah and Insha'Allah he will find us a way out.

Thanks for the comment walaalo, wallahi it was a pleasure reading it. May Allah find all the sincere believes a refuge in this fitna-ridden world

Insha Allah it works out for you brother. Thanks.

 

[Amk]

The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺?
They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah,1 even though they were commanded to worship none but One God. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him. Glorified is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!

اتَّخَذوا أَحبارَهُم وَرُهبانَهُم أَربابًا مِن دونِ اللَّهِ وَالمَسيحَ ابنَ مَريَمَ وَما أُمِروا إِلّا لِيَعبُدوا إِلٰهًا واحِدًا ۖ لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ ۚ سُبحانَهُ عَمّا يُشرِكونَ
Allah refers to them as yushrikoon which is commiting shirk
9:30-31

Whoever invokes, besides Allah, another god—for which they can have no proof—they will surely find their penalty with their Lord. Indeed, the disbelievers will never succeed.
وَمَن يَدعُ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلٰهًا آخَرَ لا بُرهانَ لَهُ بِهِ فَإِنَّما حِسابُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لا يُفلِحُ الكافِرونَ
23:117
Allah refers to people who commit shirk as kuffar