Clans such as Geri, Yabrre, Gurgura, Marehan, Harti, Barsuug etc. were definitely not established in the 1600s as they took part in the Futuh Al Habasha wars. If they were able to field armies in the 16th century, they were definitely in existence hundreds of years before the 16th century, and so were other Somali clans. I believe the Somali ethnic group and clan system was probably formed in the first millennium.
How do Somali tribes establish their nicknames?
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Clans such as Geri, Yabrre, Gurgura, Marehan, Harti, Barsuug etc. were definitely not established in the 1600s as they took part in the Futuh Al Habasha wars. If they were able to field armies in the 16th century, they were definitely in existence hundreds of years before the 16th century, and so were other Somali clans. I believe the Somali ethnic group and clan system was probably formed in the first millennium.
I believe it is all fake
You can tell someone is Somali from a mile away but you can’t tell their clan. I believe the clans started out as small groups of people neighboring each other who were forced to come together to defend common territory. Hence why most isaaq have a common land, harti all neighbor eachother, even the ogaden and marexaan came from northern darood territory along with their harti kinsmen. All hawiye live around eachother geographically.
Once the clans were formed a back-story was added to increase internal cohesiveness. You will always fight harder for someone you believe is blood. The generations after that were then born into this clan system because the clans always need numbers and are stronger and more “laandheere”. You don’t get to choose your clan but you must have one. Paradoxically this kinda makes the clans real
In a land like Somalia, Arabia, etc clans become a strategic necessity when you are fighting over grazing land and watering holes. It is a natural evolution and those who don’t adopt a clan structure will not be around for long.
This is what Somalis today are unable to overcome. A clannish mindset that doesn’t jive with a modern state. That along with kibir, aqoondaro and caajisnimo.
I believe it is all fake
You can tell someone is Somali from a mile away but you can’t tell their clan. I believe the clans started out as small groups of people neighboring each other who were forced to come together to defend common territory. Hence why most isaaq have a common land, harti all neighbor eachother, even the ogaden and marexaan came from northern darood territory along with their harti kinsmen. All hawiye live around eachother geographically.
Once the clans were formed a back-story was added to increase internal cohesiveness. You will always fight harder for someone you believe is blood. The generations after that were then born into this clan system because the clans always need numbers and are stronger and more “laandheere”. You don’t get to choose your clan but you must have one. Paradoxically this kinda makes the clans real
In a land like Somalia, Arabia, etc clans become a strategic necessity when you are fighting over grazing land and watering holes. It is a natural evolution and those who don’t adopt a clan structure will not be around for long.
This is what Somalis today are unable to overcome. A clannish mindset that doesn’t jive with a modern state. That along with kibir, aqoondaro and caajisnimo.
You wasted a mini essay on me, where did I state in my reply to Apollo that clans are real or fake?
Jog on son!
Could also mean Dhul-ba-hanti meaning land is their wealth which was later changed to Dhulbahant(e)
Dhulbahante means land hungry mj and warsangeli inherited there land from harti dhulos captured land through 100 years of fighting with Ethiopian generals.
All the dhulos founders were killed in fighting against Christians.
Could also mean Dhul-ba-hanti meaning land is their wealth which was later changed to Dhulbahant(e)
That fits a lot more better.
There are evidence that Somali abtirsi were Arabized between the 9th and 10th century. Somalis clans were mentioned much earlier than 1600's. For example,
Isaaq were mentioned in the 13th century as nomads who originated from Sanaag and displaced the native Yibir and Madhibaan clans across Somaliland. Their sub-clans like Habar Awal, Garxajis, Arap and Ayub were mentioned for taking part in the Abyssinian-Adal war during the year 1527. The Dir tribe were mentioned in the 9th century by Al-Yaqubi when he visited Zeila and a sub-clan of Dir called Jarso established a sultanate in Hararghe in the 10th century called Dawaro Sultanate. Dir sub-clans like Issa, Gadabursi and Gurgure were mentioned in the 14th century for defending Ifat Sultanate against the Abyssinian emperor called Amda Seyon and several Dir sub-clans were mentioned for taking part in the Abyssinian-Adal war. Darood sub-clan called Warsangali established a Sultanate in eastern Sanaag and northwestern Bari in the 13th century and several Darood sub-clans were mentioned for taking part in the Abyssinian-Adal war. Hawiyes were mentioned in the 12th century by Al-Said owning Merka and having over 50 villages in lower Shabelle valley. Rahanweyn sub-clans like Tunni and Jiddu were mentioned warring each other in the 8th century and Tunni established a Sultanate in Qoriyoley in the 9th century. The Ajuran clan were mentioned for establishing a powerful kingdom in the 13th century and colonizing other Somali tribes in the south & central Somalia and eastern Ethiopia.
So if these five major tribes and their sub-clans were mentioned much earlier then I doubt they were formed 1600 or 1700. Somalis are not bastards and ancient Somalis were also mentioned for practising tribalism and having their own city-states so this alone should prove that this is part of our culture and there is nothing new about it.
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Nicknames are catchy. "Wagardhac" is more catchy than "Maxamed Amaanreer"
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Sub clans can form quickly within 200 years.
There are evidence that Somali abtirsi were Arabized between the 9th and 10th century. Somalis clans were mentioned much earlier than 1600's. For example,
Isaaq were mentioned in the 13th century as nomads who originated from Sanaag and displaced the native Yibir and Madhibaan clans across Somaliland. Their sub-clans like Habar Awal, Garxajis, Arap and Ayub were mentioned for taking part in the Abyssinian-Adal war during the year 1527. The Dir tribe were mentioned in the 9th century by Al-Yaqubi when he visited Zeila and a sub-clan of Dir called Jarso established a sultanate in Hararghe in the 10th century called Dawaro Sultanate. Dir sub-clans like Issa, Gadabursi and Gurgure were mentioned in the 14th century for defending Ifat Sultanate against the Abyssinian emperor called Amda Seyon and several Dir sub-clans were mentioned for taking part in the Abyssinian-Adal war. Darood sub-clan called Warsangali established a Sultanate in eastern Sanaag and northwestern Bari in the 13th century and several Darood sub-clans were mentioned for taking part in the Abyssinian-Adal war. Hawiyes were mentioned in the 12th century by Al-Said owning Merka and having over 50 villages in lower Shabelle valley. Rahanweyn sub-clans like Tunni and Jiddu were mentioned warring each other in the 8th century and Tunni established a Sultanate in Qoriyoley in the 9th century. The Ajuran clan were mentioned for establishing a powerful kingdom in the 13th century and colonizing other Somali tribes in the south & central Somalia and eastern Ethiopia.
So if these five major tribes and their sub-clans were mentioned much earlier then I doubt they were formed 1600 or 1700. Somalis are not bastards and ancient Somalis were also mentioned for practising tribalism and having their own city-states so this alone should prove that this is part of our culture and there is nothing new about it.
Where is this citation from?
Gotta be more specific. Which nicknames are you referring to? Some are insults and we know they came from enemy tribes. I won’t give examples at the risk of being accused of derailing
Apollo
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Gotta be more specific. Which nicknames are you referring to? Some are insults and we know they came from enemy tribes. I won’t give examples at the risk of being accused of derailing
Not insult..
Just nicknames.
For example: Marehan was not the name of the guy who started that clan.
Apollo
VIP
I believe it is all fake
Sub-clans are not fake, look at this Somali gene project, the identified STR clusters are related within the past 1000-500 years:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/somali?iframe=yresults
Also, looks have nothing to do with paternal lineages. That is controlled by autosomal ancestry.
We should differentiate between sub clans.
Reer Diini vs Reer Xasan and Wabeneye vs Maxamud Saleban
Reer Diini is a juffo while Reer Xasan is a laf.
Reer Xasan is atleast 15 names above Reer Diini.
Mohamed
Siad
Barre
Cabdulle
Yusuf
Hassan
Koshin
Diini
Maxamuud Saleebaan and Wabeeneeye are of different ages according to abtirsi.com http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=222
http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=836&abtirsiLang=1
So we need to make a distinction between the ages of sub clans. Reer Xasan and Wabeneye are higher up than MS and RD.
The upcoming Somali government should implement a trademark scheme for clan names.
Prevents pretenders that are living of the good name of another clan.
Notice quite a few smaller subclans have names similar to more known larger unrelated clans... Coincidence or intentional?
Prevents pretenders that are living of the good name of another clan.
Notice quite a few smaller subclans have names similar to more known larger unrelated clans... Coincidence or intentional?
Apollo
VIP
Also, the same name can occur in different macro-clans. Lol, there are Hawiye Warsangelis??
Being Muslim doesn't mean adopting arabic name, turks and persians have their own local names yet they are muslim, you really think recep erdogan is an arabic name?, this arabic naming stuff started after colonialism as somalis felt threatened their religion was going to change especially after incidents like berbera church who started to name children western names, so they started heavily calling each other arabic names to challenge colonialism.
I doubt their was ever a confederation between clans because they don't add people even today to their clans, you can take a honorary 'ally' role in Somali clans but they will make sure that you know your just an ally and not really 'blood' like sheikhaal who are called 'martiile hawiye'.
To suggest Somalis just came along and grabbed people in the land and told them who their fathers are in ancient Africa is highly unlikely to me who kept their history passed down generation to generation. People think history is only written, it's not. I go to the musuem and lots of it here is actually oral history because of the indigenous people.
I doubt their was ever a confederation between clans because they don't add people even today to their clans, you can take a honorary 'ally' role in Somali clans but they will make sure that you know your just an ally and not really 'blood' like sheikhaal who are called 'martiile hawiye'.
To suggest Somalis just came along and grabbed people in the land and told them who their fathers are in ancient Africa is highly unlikely to me who kept their history passed down generation to generation. People think history is only written, it's not. I go to the musuem and lots of it here is actually oral history because of the indigenous people.
I agree that at the lowest levels it’s not fake. That’s why I said it’s paradoxical. You are born into a clan which was prolly fake to start out with but ends up becoming real.
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