Genuinely, What is a more acceptable alternative to federalism (clan federalism)

[Kizaru]

At this point, we might aswell have 15 new countries

What are other means of creating a stable and propped up country that isnt rife with qabil. Federalism turned us into self centered people who dont even bat a eye when other somalis are getting killed because, you guessed it, "Muh Qabil". When its other countries we are the first to protest and spring up hashtags but are deathly quite when its people from the north, east, south or west of our lands. Even burundi, The poorest of the poor, is laughing at us.

 

[yohohoho]

Authoritarianism for at least 30 years, while industrializing the country.

Somalis are a stupid people who can't help but destroy themselves.

 

[Avalanche]

A ruler who dominates the entire country with an unyielding iron fist

 

[Kizaru]

its just wild to me how somalia, with the same people, same language, same ancestry, same religion cant function but ethiopians, who literally want to wipe and geneocide each other out of the face of earth, have a more cohesive country. I pray somalis move from this

 

[Mayor]

I think federalism is the system that most fits Somali society. It allows for a mixture of unity and autonomy

Imagine if there was a federal structure in place in the 60s. Maybe MSB would’ve never been able to succeed with his coup. When the country is centralized it creates one point of failure. You capture the capital, you rule the country. A centralized government makes the country fragile

I think the problem with our current form of Federalism is that we don’t have fair and strong institutions so people rely on Qabiil as an alternative. Hard to love the state when it doesn’t do much for you

I think America is the perfect example for Somalia. Of course we shouldn’t blindly copy them, and we should adapt their system to match our own culture

 

[Kizaru]

I think federalism is the system that most fits Somali society. It allows for a mixture of unity and autonomy

Imagine if there was a federal structure in place in the 60s. Maybe MSB would’ve never been able to succeed with his coup. When the country is centralized it creates one point of failure. You capture the capital, you rule the country. A centralized government makes the country fragile

I think the problem with our current form of Federalism is that we don’t have fair and strong institutions so people rely on Qabiil as an alternative. Hard to love the state when it doesn’t do much for you

I think America is the perfect example for Somalia. Of course we shouldn’t blindly copy them, and we should adapt their system to match our own culture

Most federal states are clan fiefdoms if we really be serious. I dont mind federalsim if it isnt always about qabil but everyone makes it out of qabil. No one cares for the other.

 

[mohamedismail]

Federalism is good for Somalia. Centralism would have been ideal but sadly I don't think Somalis are capable of uniting under centralism.

The amount of tribalism that exists within Somalis is so bad that we would just have another kacaan part 2, leading another civil war. It's best to have federal states and for every clan to focus on stabilising their region.

Maybe in the future we can return back to centralism once Somalis are ready to

 

[Mayor]

Most federal states are clan fiefdoms if we really be serious. I dont mind federalsim if it isnt always about qabil but everyone makes it out of qabil. No one cares for the other.

I think the clan fiefdoms will act more like legitimate states once we fully democratize and institute one man one vote, in addition to setting up strong institutions that protect and provide for everyone equally

Qabiil will lose its significance when the average person is being helped by the government more than they’re being helped by their clan

The civil war caused mistrust that still exists today. The truth is, this will take time

 

[Kizaru]

i just need somalis to see the reality.

 

[DR OSMAN]

It's better being 15 small countries then 1 big dysfunctional f*ck like Somalia or Nigeria or Ethiopia. Small productive countries like Qatar and UAE arise and come back like small hyenas and control large countries.. Dummies think big country means power if it did then Qatar and UAE wouldn't be having field day on africa.

I prefer small clan based state that works then a big dysfunctional somali state that didn't even last 30 years from 1960 to 1991 lol but the idiots say let's retry it again lol that's true madness doing what failed over and over again thinking different outcome will come.

If we repeat the colonial inspired somali state model following 1960s model I predict the only outcome will be to see if it disintegrates quicker then 30 years as I predict within 5 years it will collapse not 30 years like last time.

 

[yohohoho]

It's better being 15 small countries then 1 big dysfunctional f*ck like Somalia or Nigeria or Ethiopia. Small productive countries like Qatar and UAE arise and come back like small hyenas and control large countries.. Dummies think big country means power if it did then Qatar and UAE wouldn't be having field day on africa.

I prefer small clan based state that works then a big dysfunctional somali state that didn't even last 30 years from 1960 to 1991 lol but the idiots say let's retry it again lol that's true madness doing what failed over and over again thinking different outcome will come.

If we repeat the colonial inspired somali state model following 1960s model I predict the only outcome will be to see if it disintegrates quicker then 30 years as I predict within 5 years it will collapse not 30 years like last time.

Difference is Nigeria has hundreds of ethnic groups and Ethiopia has over a dozen. We have one, with a few ethnic minorities.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Difference is Nigeria has hundreds of ethnic groups and Ethiopia has over a dozen. We have one, with a few ethnic minorities.

Ethnic is language based we may share same ethnicity but we don't share same tribes. Our loyalties isnt just ethnic based but more so clan based our ethnic somalinimo only works outside somalia not inside it as it goes back to tribal loyalties.

We must craft a state accommodating ppl loyalties not thinking u can erase it overnight thru dictatorship as siyad tried why bother repeating it as u know the outcome it will lead to which is civil war all over again. Just let them be and their loyalties and accommodate it or else a state is impossible as your trying to create a state following other country models but locals are like we want nothing of it and then your stuck in 30 year cycle where they prefer the vacuum.

 

[Kizaru]

Ethnic is language based we may share same ethnicity but we don't share same tribes. Our loyalties isnt just ethnic based but more so clan based our ethnic somalinimo only works outside somalia not inside it as it goes back to tribal loyalties.

We must craft a state accommodating ppl loyalties not thinking u can erase it overnight thru dictatorship as siyad tried why bother repeating it as u know the outcome it will lead to which is civil war all over again. Just let them be and their loyalties and accommodate it or else a state is impossible as your trying to create a state following other country models but locals are like we want nothing of it and then your stuck in 30 year cycle where they prefer the vacuum.

Clan loyalties isn't what builds a country. 1 state isn't even functional. If say all the states got independence, how would they be able to defend themselves. Most states don't even have 5 million. There no such thing as economic prosperity with a population of 5 million. There's barely any infrastructure, basic necessities, schools, no currency, no trade routes or even any source of income. Qabil infighting is expected. They would cease to exist as there's nothing to hold it together apart from its loyalty to 1 clan. There's practically no institutions, facilities and hospital equipment to support even 5 people. Where will these new countries get money from? Asking for loans they will never be able to payback? We have zero economic strategy or even a economy in the first place. Our economy is 7 billion. That's our gdp. Each state will probably be equivalent to that of 1-2 billion. A 1 billion dollar economy as a country would be shameful beyond beliefs. How can a state survive like that. It would be catastrophic. Another refugee crisis. All because people couldn't put their qabil aside. I want to know what exactly qabil has done for modern somalia. We are getting laughed at. Loyalties means nothing when your country is pile of ash and smoke

 

[yohohoho]

Clan loyalties isn't what builds a country. 1 state isn't even functional. If say all the states got independence, how would they be able to defend themselves. Most states don't even have 5 million. There no such thing as economic prosperity with a population of 5 million. There's barely any infrastructure, basic necessities, schools, no currency, no trade routes or even any source of income. Qabil infighting is expected. They would cease to exist as there's nothing to hold it together apart from its loyalty to 1 clan. There's practically no institutions, facilities and hospital equipment to support even 5 people. Where will these new countries get money from? Asking for loans they will never be able to payback? We have zero economic strategy or even a economy in the first place. Our economy is 7 billion. That's our gdp. Each state will probably be equivalent to that of 1-2 billion. A 1 billion dollar economy as a country would be shameful beyond beliefs. How can a state survive like that. It would be catastrophic. Another refugee crisis. All because people couldn't put their qabil aside. I want to know what exactly qabil has done for modern somalia. We are getting laughed at. Loyalties means nothing when your country is pile of ash and smoke

Exactly, Somalia is already an extremely poor country, if it broke into several states it would never develop

 

[Kizaru]

Exactly, Somalia is already an extremely poor country, if it broke into several states it would never develop

From 1 begging bowl to 15 begging bowls. I don't see the point. If these folks can just put aside their BS qabil shit, then we can develop. It will be truly heartbreaking for the next generation of youth languishing in a failed state. I can only imagine what they will think of us knowing we could've done something for our country but instead we made them even more desperate. If we can just think this through instead if being rash asf and always picking up a gun like a bunch of barbarians, them we would see our true potential. We are synonymous with failure. What good comes from separating and becoming faliures^15

 

[Hilmaam]

I think federalism is the system that most fits Somali society. It allows for a mixture of unity and autonomy

Imagine if there was a federal structure in place in the 60s. Maybe MSB would’ve never been able to succeed with his coup. When the country is centralized it creates one point of failure. You capture the capital, you rule the country. A centralized government makes the country fragile

I think the problem with our current form of Federalism is that we don’t have fair and strong institutions so people rely on Qabiil as an alternative. Hard to love the state when it doesn’t do much for you

I think America is the perfect example for Somalia. Of course we shouldn’t blindly copy them, and we should adapt their system to match our own culture

Bro american states have no real power. Look at weed legalization some states is legal but the federal govt still considers it illegal and they can come whenever they want seize your money and lock you up and state cant do anything. federal law trumps state laws unless its something specific in constitution

what somalis want is clan states. Each clan once it gets enough population and land will demand own state. Our population predicted to double by 2050 imagine how many flags and so called federal states can pop up by then to fight over scarce resources. 30 years since collapse and this is best our political elite came up with its recipe for us to make no real progress in our lifetime.

 

[Hilmaam]

In Somalia, youth comprise the majority of the population. However, many lack basic education, employment opportunities, and a meaningful connection to the issues and governance of their community. Only 42% of children are enrolled in primary school, and of an estimated population of two million youth aged 15-24, only 6% are enrolled in secondary school. Youth unemployment in Somalia is estimated at 67%, one of the highest rates in the world.

This is data from USAID this is not recipe for bright future

 

[Mayor]

Bro american states have no real power. Look at weed legalization some states is legal but the federal govt still considers it illegal and they can come whenever they want seize your money and lock you up and state cant do anything. federal law trumps state laws unless its something specific in constitution

Yea but states do have a large degree of power, it's just not absolute. They have to share that power with the federal government. And the federal government at the end of the day is just a reflection of the states. Each state is represented in both parts of congress, the house of representatives and the senate.

The only reason why weed is illegal is because of the laws that were passed by congress. Now the country has a different attitude towards weed, but the laws haven't been updated to reflect this new attitude. They have to go through congress to change these laws. I think it's good that they're going through the democratic process to change the laws, I wouldn't want someone to have the power to be able to just change the laws automatically when they feel like it

The states have to follow federal law, but they also are the ones making it. This is the reason why I like the American system. Each state handles a lot of their own stuff, but they come together at the federal to address things that affect them all

what somalis want is clan states. Each clan once it gets enough population and land will demand own state. Our population predicted to double by 2050 imagine how many flags and so called federal states can pop up by then to fight over scarce resources. 30 years since collapse and this is best our political elite came up with its recipe for us to make no real progress in our lifetime.

This is true, but idk any other system that can work. The truth is clans exists and they all have their own land. Why not create a system of governance that acknowledges this reality? I don't personally think that there's a problem with having a lot of states, that means the locals have more power in developing their deegaan

 

[Mayor]

Yea but states do have a large degree of power, it's just not absolute. They have to share that power with the federal government. And the federal government at the end of the day is just a reflection of the states. Each state is represented in both parts of congress, the house of representatives and the senate.

The only reason why weed is illegal is because of the laws that were passed by congress. Now the country has a different attitude towards weed, but the laws haven't been updated to reflect this new attitude. They have to go through congress to change these laws. I think it's good that they're going through the democratic process to change the laws, I wouldn't want someone to have the power to be able to just change the laws automatically when they feel like it

The states have to follow federal law, but they also are the ones making it. This is the reason why I like the American system. Each state handles a lot of their own stuff, but they come together at the federal to address things that affect them all



This is true, but idk any other system that can work. The truth is clans exists and they all have their own land. Why not create a system of governance that acknowledges this reality? I don't personally think that there's a problem with having a lot of states, that means the locals have more power in developing their deegaan

@Hilmaam Also I don't we should be looking at the past 30 years. Imo the real timeline should start at 2012 when the current government was formed. And imo, they have made some great progress in that 11 year period

 

[Hilmaam]

Yea but states do have a large degree of power, it's just not absolute. They have to share that power with the federal government. And the federal government at the end of the day is just a reflection of the states. Each state is represented in both parts of congress, the house of representatives and the senate.

The only reason why weed is illegal is because of the laws that were passed by congress. Now the country has a different attitude towards weed, but the laws haven't been updated to reflect this new attitude. They have to go through congress to change these laws. I think it's good that they're going through the democratic process to change the laws, I wouldn't want someone to have the power to be able to just change the laws automatically when they feel like it

The states have to follow federal law, but they also are the ones making it. This is the reason why I like the American system. Each state handles a lot of their own stuff, but they come together at the federal to address things that affect them all



This is true, but idk any other system that can work. The truth is clans exists and they all have their own land. Why not create a system of governance that acknowledges this reality? I don't personally think that there's a problem with having a lot of states, that means the locals have more power in developing their deegaan

True. Clan and religion only real uniting common factors in Somalia. good chance they will always be foundation of any governance in Somalia, unfortunately it seems clan even trumps religion