Fascinating extract from the "expedition to the Nugaal valley"

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Prince of Lasanod

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"At Badwein, in the centre of that part of the Nogal Valley which is occupied by the Arasama sub-tribe, we discovered extensive ruins of an ancient city, and close by a large tank quarried out of the gypsum rock. The deserted ruins covered an area of about 40,000 square yards, choked up with cactus and aloes, the haunt of leopards and hyasnas. Most of the houses have been reduced to mounds of stone and rubble, covered with straggling mimosa bushes, but here and there the walls of houses were better preserved. We rode into one house, whose walls stood some 10 feet high, and found it divided into many partitions, the building being in the form of a parallelogram, with sides 200 feet long and 100 feet wide. Curious niches hero and there would seem to have been used as fire-places.

Seeing these things, we listened with respect to the Somali legend of a civilised people who had long passed away before the onset of the savages whose guests we now were. The Somalis said this civilised people cultivated all the lands around, and occupied large cities, that they could read and write, and that when their (the Somalis') fathers came to the country, many buildings bore traces of writing which had long since been worn away by the work of time. They called the people " Harli," and said they were there prior to the Gallas. The latter had dug the rocky wells at Kirrid which we saw on first entering the country, and had cut a rude Christian cross in the face of the cave—■ the only ancient sign existing of a rude form of Christianity in the land. We tried to decipher what was said to be writing on the pillar of a doorway ; but it waB impossible to make out any lotters, as the surface of the gypsum stones, of which all the houses were built, had become much decomposed by the action of rain, and looked spongy, like pumice-stone. We rode with our party of Dulbahantas in amongst the ruins, out of one house into another, and, standing on high heaps of debris, let our eyes range over a landscape dotted with crumbling grey walls imbedded in clumps of aloes and cactus. As we picked our way among the fallenblocks, we disturbed a herd of deer feeding inside the remains of an old building, and everywhere guinea-fowl, of the species called vulturine, scuttled out of our path. We wished much to dig amongst the ruins for ancient pottery, etc., but wero prevented from doing so by the suspicion and prejudice of our hosts, who consider any tampering with these places as sacrilegious. There were many old graves, some of which seemed to be built in the form of a cross; they were plastered over with a mortar composed of pounded gypsum and water. The Dulbahantas now make their graves in the same manner, only Moslem in design; always in the vicinity of water, as certain rites, for which water is necessary, have to be carried out. In some cases dead men are carried, strapped on camels, long distances in order to be buried near water. We much wished to remain some days and explore tbis dead city, but various sub-tribes of Dulbahantas were very uneasy and suspicious of our intentions, so we thought it advisable not to prolong our stay. They could not understand why we roamed about in desolate places instead of accepting the hospitality of their wandering camps, where the whole place was infested with camel-ticks ; and having seen us working the theodolite, they credited us with designs of presently bringing an army to take the country. They dissuaded us as well as they could from proceeding to tho out-of-the-way peaks we had fixed upon as points of observation, and placed many obstacles in the way, assuring us we should be attacked by savage tribes, and that we were going into a country utterly waterless, that our camels would be devoured by lions, etc. Seeing, however, that we went all the same, and discovered water in spite of them, they gave up the attempt, and we were better friends after."

Expedition to the Nogal Valley
Lieutenant E. J. Swayne
Published in London, by John Murray, 1893
 
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Prince of Lasanod

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@Young Popeye

What do you think? This location is pretty deep inside Northern Somalia(in Northern Sool region). :hmm:

C4Eg5UA.jpg
 

Prince of Lasanod

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Sada Mire:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9

"A grave marked with a stele carrying an Orthodox cross was found in situ at Aw-Barkhadle, which confirms that Christianity was known here during pre-Islamic times or contemporary with Islam. The Somali Tumaal (blacksmiths) tribe, thought to have a Hebrew origin, are said to still visit the Xabaalo tumaalood (blacksmiths’ cemeteries), 30 km from Berbera on the Berbera Road, for ancestral veneration rites. The Somali regions in the north were, in pre-Islamic times, part of the Aksumite empire. Also, gravestones marked with a Star of David are found around Dhubato (27) village in Hargeysa region."

See this thread. It's very cheap to claim that every single case of Christianity in the Horn was because the region was part of Aksum. Or are you going to claim that Sool was as well? Aksum was a Tigray civilization, it didn't extend into all of the Amhara regions let alone the dry lowlands of Somalia.
 
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"Seeing these things, we listened with respect to the Somali legend of a civilised people who had long passed away before the onset of the savages whose guests we now were. The Somalis said this civilised people cultivated all the lands around, and occupied large cities, that they could read and write, and that when their (the Somalis') fathers came to the country, many buildings bore traces of writing which had long since been worn away by the work of time. They called the people " Harli," and said they were there prior to the Gallas."

Except for the presence of the Oromo, this would seem to agree with Sada Mire. Also, both the Yibir and Harla are thought to have had Semitic connections, which would tie in well with Auxum.
 

Prince of Lasanod

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"Seeing these things, we listened with respect to the Somali legend of a civilised people who had long passed away before the onset of the savages whose guests we now were. The Somalis said this civilised people cultivated all the lands around, and occupied large cities, that they could read and write, and that when their (the Somalis') fathers came to the country, many buildings bore traces of writing which had long since been worn away by the work of time. They called the people " Harli," and said they were there prior to the Gallas."

Except for the presence of the Oromo, this would seem to agree with Sada Mire. Also, both the Yibir and Harla are thought to have had Semitic connections, which would tie in well with Auxum.
You have gone insane.

Ileen you're claiming Sool and the Nugaal valley was part of aksum.

:mjlol:

The Harla people were Cushitic, not Semitic.
 
You have gone insane.

Ileen you're claiming Sool and the Nugaal valley was part of aksum.

:mjlol:

The Harla people were Cushitic, not Semitic.

Probably not. Those Harla who survived in Harar speak a Semitic language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harari_language

"Harari is the language of the Harari people of Ethiopia. It is an Afro-Asiatic language of the Semitic branch and is a member of the Ethiosemitic group. According to the 2007 Ethiopian census, it is spoken by 25,810 people. Most of its speakers are multilingual in Amharic and/or Eastern Oromo.[citation needed] Harari is closely related to the Eastern Gurage languages, Zay, and Silt'e. All of whom are linked to the now extinct Semitic Harla language.[3][4] Locals or natives of Harar refer to it as Gēy Ritma or Gēy Sinan "language of the City" (Gēy is the word for how Harari speakers refer to Harar, whose name is an exonym).[5]"

Note the connection to the Yibir and Madhibaan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harla_people"

"Sixteenth century saw Oromo's invading regions of Somalia from the northern areas of Hargeisa to its southern portions such as Lower Juba, incorporating the Harla people.[7] In 1893 British led expeditions, came across an ancient town in Nugaal Valley Somalia, the local Dhulbahante tribe alleged the Harla had lived in the area before the Oromo invasions.[8]

Field research by Enrico Cerulli identified a modern group called the "Harla" living amongst the Somali in the region between the cities of Harar and Jijiga. Encyclopaedia Aethiopica suggests that this population "may be a remnant group of the old [Harla], that integrated into the Somali genealogical system, but kept a partially separate identity by developing a language of their own." Cerulli published some data on this Harla community's language, called af Harlaad, which resembled the Somali languages spoken by the Yibir and Madhiban low-caste groups.[2] According to folklore, the Harla reportedly had a queen named Arawelo, who ruled much of the eastern parts of the Horn of Africa. In Zeila a clan called Harla claims to be related to the ancient people. Locals in Zeila also attested that the old town of Amoud was built by the Harla.[9]

The influx of Arab immigrants such as Abadir into Harla territory would lead to the development of the town of Harar known then as Ge.[10] Harar would become the leading center of Islam in the Horn of Africa.[11] According to Ethiopian accounts, in the 14th century, the Harla battled against the forces of emperor Amda Seyon I in what is now North Somalia.[12] The Harari people are considered to be the closest remaining link to the Harla people. The Harla tribe's disappearance could have been due to the Abyssinian–Adal war in the sixteenth century, destitution, or assimilation by invading Oromos and Somalis.[13] Strong evidence suggests that during the Great Oromo Migrations, the remaining Harla retreated behind the walls of Harar and were able to survive culturally.[14] In 2017, a Harla town that produced jewelry was discovered by archaeologists. The architecture of a mosque found, affirmed Harla had ties with Islamic centers in Tanzania and Somalia.[15]"
 
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Prince of Lasanod

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Probably not. Those Harla who survived in Harar speak a Semitic language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harari_language

"Harari is the language of the Harari people of Ethiopia. It is an Afro-Asiatic language of the Semitic branch and is a member of the Ethiosemitic group. According to the 2007 Ethiopian census, it is spoken by 25,810 people. Most of its speakers are multilingual in Amharic and/or Eastern Oromo.[citation needed] Harari is closely related to the Eastern Gurage languages, Zay, and Silt'e. All of whom are linked to the now extinct Semitic Harla language.[3][4] Locals or natives of Harar refer to it as Gēy Ritma or Gēy Sinan "language of the City" (Gēy is the word for how Harari speakers refer to Harar, whose name is an exonym).[5]"

Note the connection to the Yibir and Maghibaan.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harla_people"

"Sixteenth century saw Oromo's invading regions of Somalia from the northern areas of Hargeisa to its southern portions such as Lower Juba, incorporating the Harla people.[7] In 1893 British led expeditions, came across an ancient town in Nugaal Valley Somalia, the local Dhulbahante tribe alleged the Harla had lived in the area before the Oromo invasions.[8]

Field research by Enrico Cerulli identified a modern group called the "Harla" living amongst the Somali in the region between the cities of Harar and Jijiga. Encyclopaedia Aethiopica suggests that this population "may be a remnant group of the old [Harla], that integrated into the Somali genealogical system, but kept a partially separate identity by developing a language of their own." Cerulli published some data on this Harla community's language, called af Harlaad, which resembled the Somali languages spoken by the Yibir and Madhiban low-caste groups.[2] According to folklore, the Harla reportedly had a queen named Arawelo, who ruled much of the eastern parts of the Horn of Africa. In Zeila a clan called Harla claims to be related to the ancient people. Locals in Zeila also attested that the old town of Amoud was built by the Harla.[9]

The influx of Arab immigrants such as Abadir into Harla territory would lead to the development of the town of Harar known then as Ge.[10] Harar would become the leading center of Islam in the Horn of Africa.[11] According to Ethiopian accounts, in the 14th century, the Harla battled against the forces of emperor Amda Seyon I in what is now North Somalia.[12] The Harari people are considered to be the closest remaining link to the Harla people. The Harla tribe's disappearance could have been due to the Abyssinian–Adal war in the sixteenth century, destitution, or assimilation by invading Oromos and Somalis.[13] Strong evidence suggests that during the Great Oromo Migrations, the remaining Harla retreated behind the walls of Harar and were able to survive culturally.[14] In 2017, a Harla town that produced jewelry was discovered by archaeologists. The architecture of a mosque found, affirmed Harla had ties with Islamic centers in Tanzania and Somalia.[15]
Your quote states that the Harla are not in fact extinct, but that remnants of them still live between Somalis and that they have their own language known as Af Harlaad.

According to Kirk who studied the Somali language and grammar, the secret Yibir dialect is Cushitic.
upload_2017-6-27_13-58-2.png


If Af Harlaad resembles the language spoken by the Yibir(your quote as well), the Harla were therefore Cushitic and not Semitic.
 
Your quote states that the Harla are not in fact extinct, but that remnants of them still live between Somalis and that they have their own language known as Af Harlaad.

According to Kirk who studied the Somali language and grammar, the secret Yibir dialect is Cushitic.
View attachment 22011

Therefore, if Af Harlaad resembles the language spoken by the Yibir, the Harla were Cushitic and not Semitic.


At one time Harari was considered either Cushitic or Semitic. It was controversial. The most recent work says it's Semitic but influenced by the Cushitic languages that surrounded it. See the references to the Wiki articles above.

How does Southeastern Chad fit into this? Written in 1905? :)
 
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See this thread. It's very cheap to claim that every single case of Christianity in the Horn was because the region was part of Aksum. Or are you going to claim that Sool was as well? Aksum was a Tigray civilization, it didn't extend into all of the Amhara regions let alone the dry lowlands of Somalia.

Axum was not always under Tigray control. Gudit was either Falasha or married to one. Power eventually shifted to the Agau. The Zagwe took control about the same time the northern Samaale clans formed.

I suppose you are denying the credibility of the Dhulbahante?
 

Young Popeye

Call me pops
"Seeing these things, we listened with respect to the Somali legend of a civilised people who had long passed away before the onset of the savages whose guests we now were. The Somalis said this civilised people cultivated all the lands around, and occupied large cities, that they could read and write, and that when their (the Somalis') fathers came to the country, many buildings bore traces of writing which had long since been worn away by the work of time. They called the people " Harli," and said they were there prior to the Gallas."

Except for the presence of the Oromo, this would seem to agree with Sada Mire. Also, both the Yibir and Harla are thought to have had Semitic connections, which would tie in well with Auxum.

So Semites tie in with Axum? Arabs are axumites?? Harar was an Arab colony that's why the language is Semitic.
 
So Semites tie in with Axum? Arabs are axumites?? Harar was an Arab colony that's why the language is Semitic.

http://orvillejenkins.com/profiles/amhara.html

"Amharic is related to other Semitic languages in the Horn of Africa, like the Gurage cluster and Harari. All these peoples are likely related to the original Semitic stream of settlers-conquerors that moved into the area about 3000 years ago."

It's probably better to think of them as Semitic rather than Arab. Also, they mixed with earlier Cushitic immigrants. 3000 YA is only 500 years after Hatshepsut's expedition to Punt, and about the same time camels brought the first loads of frankincense from Oman to Suez.
 
It is obvious that the remnants of the graves and civilization that predate Somalis are aksumite in nature. I don't know why it's so hard for you to fathom all this when the excavation of the graves turn up iconic royal figurines. What other civilization in the Horn were Christians?
 
"At Badwein, in the centre of that part of the Nogal Valley which is occupied by the Arasama sub-tribe, we discovered extensive ruins of an ancient city, and close by a large tank quarried out of the gypsum rock. The deserted ruins covered an area of about 40,000 square yards, choked up with cactus and aloes, the haunt of leopards and hyasnas. Most of the houses have been reduced to mounds of stone and rubble, covered with straggling mimosa bushes, but here and there the walls of houses were better preserved. We rode into one house, whose walls stood some 10 feet high, and found it divided into many partitions, the building being in the form of a parallelogram, with sides 200 feet long and 100 feet wide. Curious niches hero and there would seem to have been used as fire-places.

Seeing these things, we listened with respect to the Somali legend of a civilised people who had long passed away before the onset of the savages whose guests we now were. The Somalis said this civilised people cultivated all the lands around, and occupied large cities, that they could read and write, and that when their (the Somalis') fathers came to the country, many buildings bore traces of writing which had long since been worn away by the work of time. They called the people " Harli," and said they were there prior to the Gallas. The latter had dug the rocky wells at Kirrid which we saw on first entering the country, and had cut a rude Christian cross in the face of the cave—■ the only ancient sign existing of a rude form of Christianity in the land. We tried to decipher what was said to be writing on the pillar of a doorway ; but it waB impossible to make out any lotters, as the surface of the gypsum stones, of which all the houses were built, had become much decomposed by the action of rain, and looked spongy, like pumice-stone. We rode with our party of Dulbahantas in amongst the ruins, out of one house into another, and, standing on high heaps of debris, let our eyes range over a landscape dotted with crumbling grey walls imbedded in clumps of aloes and cactus. As we picked our way among the fallenblocks, we disturbed a herd of deer feeding inside the remains of an old building, and everywhere guinea-fowl, of the species called vulturine, scuttled out of our path. We wished much to dig amongst the ruins for ancient pottery, etc., but wero prevented from doing so by the suspicion and prejudice of our hosts, who consider any tampering with these places as sacrilegious. There were many old graves, some of which seemed to be built in the form of a cross; they were plastered over with a mortar composed of pounded gypsum and water. The Dulbahantas now make their graves in the same manner, only Moslem in design; always in the vicinity of water, as certain rites, for which water is necessary, have to be carried out. In some cases dead men are carried, strapped on camels, long distances in order to be buried near water. We much wished to remain some days and explore tbis dead city, but various sub-tribes of Dulbahantas were very uneasy and suspicious of our intentions, so we thought it advisable not to prolong our stay. They could not understand why we roamed about in desolate places instead of accepting the hospitality of their wandering camps, where the whole place was infested with camel-ticks ; and having seen us working the theodolite, they credited us with designs of presently bringing an army to take the country. They dissuaded us as well as they could from proceeding to tho out-of-the-way peaks we had fixed upon as points of observation, and placed many obstacles in the way, assuring us we should be attacked by savage tribes, and that we were going into a country utterly waterless, that our camels would be devoured by lions, etc. Seeing, however, that we went all the same, and discovered water in spite of them, they gave up the attempt, and we were better friends after."

Expedition to the Nogal Valley
Lieutenant E. J. Swayne
Published in London, by John Murray, 1893

This is all colonial suugo science . It is now an accepted fact that the oromos did not settle in the Somali peninsula or northern Somalia . These myths were spread by colonial writers due to encounters with somali nomads (such such as the above excerpt ). The oromos were not present in northern Somalia land before the somali nor is there any proof to show harlas lived there. The oromos came into contact with Somalis during their expansion in the 16th century .

The somali nomads often assign their land to other so called predecessors for two main reasons :

1.they incorrectly assume any sign of civilization ,meaning not nomadic in nature ,must be attributed to other ethnic groups ,when we know that there has always been civilization in the somali peninsula ,especially the coastal areas .furthermore ,a pastoral lifestyle could have been adopted by the Somalis due to the drying of the land.

2.somali nomads largely believe they are descendants of Arab sheikhs ,therefore any kind of ancient pagan settlements or ruins are automatically described as being of Oromo or assigned to some alien people.

Those ruins were most likely built by the ancestors of the somali before they accepted islam .
 

Prince of Lasanod

Eid trim pending
This is all colonial suugo science . It is now an accepted fact that the oromos did not settle in the Somali peninsula or northern Somalia . These myths were spread by colonial writers due to encounters with somali nomads (such such as the above excerpt ). The oromos were not present in northern Somalia land before the somali nor is there any proof to show harlas lived there. The oromos came into contact with Somalis during their expansion in the 16th century .

The somali nomads often assign their land to other so called predecessors for two main reasons :

1.they incorrectly assume any sign of civilization ,meaning not nomadic in nature ,must be attributed to other ethnic groups ,when we know that there has always been civilization in the somali peninsula ,especially the coastal areas .furthermore ,a pastoral lifestyle could have been adopted by the Somalis due to the drying of the land.

2.somali nomads largely believe they are descendants of Arab sheikhs ,therefore any kind of ancient pagan settlements or ruins are automatically described as being of Oromo or assigned to some alien people.

Those ruins were most likely built by the ancestors of the somali before they accepted islam .
I agree.

My guess is that before Islam, Northern Somalia was much more wetter and as it dried up, the nomadic Somalis who became Muslim eventually overwhelmed the non-Muslim Somalis.

Just 100 years ago, the Northern Somalis used to refer to Rahanweyn's dialect as Af-Gaal.
 
I agree.

My guess is that before Islam, Northern Somalia was much more wetter and as it dried up, the nomadic Somalis who became Muslim eventually overwhelmed the non-Muslim Somalis.

Just 100 years ago, the Northern Somalis used to refer to Rahanweyn's dialect as Af-Gaal.

I don't think the process of islamisation and the drying up of pastures are linked . The drying of pastures and the adoption of a pastoral lifestyle most likely started well before the advent of islam .

Secondly, somali oral historians have caused a great deal of confusion to somali history by mixing up two important and distinct events .

1. Islam becoming the dominant religion in the somali peninsula .
2.the somali-oromo wars starting in the 17th century .

1. We have very little information about this period or exactly how the Somalis lived /worshipped ..or what the Somalis called themselves before this period ..........

2.With regard to the second point , the somalis fought vicious wars with the oromos following the great Oromo expansion of the 16th century . The rahanweyn and the dirs ,for example ,fought epic wars against Oromo groups who were entering from the west .
The darood migrated further south and expelled oromos who had established in areas of southern Somalia and what is know northern Kenya .

Somali oral historian often confuse the wars with Oromo as some kind of ancient event ,whereby Somalis accepted islam and turned against the oromos and other non Muslim people . This led some historians to believe oromos had ancient settlements in Somalia and were expelled after the advent of islam .
The galla madow wars refer to the somali response to the Oromo expansion ,not the period when Somalis accepted islam .


As for af gaal, this was said by sayid muhammad and simply refers to how af maay is unintelligible to some af maxa tiri speakers .it is not a religious slur .
 
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