Fascinating extract from the "expedition to the Nugaal valley"

[Grant]

This is all colonial suugo science . It is now an accepted fact that the oromos did not settle in the Somali peninsula or northern Somalia . These myths were spread by colonial writers due to encounters with somali nomads (such such as the above excerpt ). The oromos were not present in northern Somalia land before the somali nor is there any proof to show harlas lived there. The oromos came into contact with Somalis during their expansion in the 16th century .

The somali nomads often assign their land to other so called predecessors for two main reasons :

1.they incorrectly assume any sign of civilization ,meaning not nomadic in nature ,must be attributed to other ethnic groups ,when we know that there has always been civilization in the somali peninsula ,especially the coastal areas .furthermore ,a pastoral lifestyle could have been adopted by the Somalis due to the drying of the land.

2.somali nomads largely believe they are descendants of Arab sheikhs ,therefore any kind of ancient pagan settlements or ruins are automatically described as being of Oromo or assigned to some alien people.

Those ruins were most likely built by the ancestors of the somali before they accepted islam .

So the Samaales became Muslim and lost their ability to build stone buildings in the Axumite style? Remember that the Oromo fallacy came from I M Lewis' interviews with Northern clan elders and was apparently repeated by the Dhulbahante informants. This did not originate with the British. You REALLY need to read Sada Mire.

 

[Grant]

I agree.

My guess is that before Islam, Northern Somalia was much more wetter and as it dried up, the nomadic Somalis who became Muslim eventually overwhelmed the non-Muslim Somalis.

Just 100 years ago, the Northern Somalis used to refer to Rahanweyn's dialect as Af-Gaal.

Provided you distinguish between Somalis and Samaales, I have no problem with this. Laas Gaal clearly represents a wetter climate. But note the timing of the conversion and the undoubted presence of "dadka hore". Herbert Lewis should be far more difficult to ignore.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

So the Samaales became Muslim and lost their ability to build stone buildings in the Axumite style?

I never said that. You are being disingenuous .

Remember that the Oromo fallacy came from I M Lewis' interviews with Northern clan elders and was apparently repeated by the Dhulbahante informants.

So ?

This did not originate with the British.

I never said it did .

You REALLY need to read Sada Mire.

She is Suugo Scientist like yourself .A couple of crosses and apparently axum ruled as far as Sanaag and Sool ? she is full of shit.!

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Provided you distinguish between Somalis and Samaales, I have no problem with this. Laas Gaal clearly represents a wetter climate. But note the timing of the conversion and the undoubted presence of "dadka hore". Herbert Lewis should be far more difficult to ignore.

I am Darood, not "Samaale". Not sure what you're obsession is with this term.

I don't believe the Tumaal or the Madhibaan are ethnically different to Somalis. In almost every civilization, there are caste systems. They just happen to be at the bottom of ours after they were overwhelmed by the nomadic Somalis who viewed their occupations as lowly.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

So the Samaales became Muslim and lost their ability to build stone buildings in the Axumite style? Remember that the Oromo fallacy came from I M Lewis' interviews with Northern clan elders and was apparently repeated by the Dhulbahante informants. This did not originate with the British. You REALLY need to read Sada Mire.

The Portuguese completely destroyed the vast Indian Ocean trade around 500 years ago and I.M Lewis mentions that Somalis abandoned civilization, farming, trade, urban towns and became nomadic after this point. So it's entirely possible for the same thing to have happened before.

 

[Grant]

I am Darood, not "Samaale". Not sure what you're obsession is with this term.

I don't believe the Tumaal or the Madhibaan are ethnically different to Somalis. In almost every civilization, there are caste systems. They just happen to be at the bottom of ours after they were overwhelmed by the nomadic Somalis who viewed their occupations as lowly.

So you admit they were "overwhelmed". I won't bore you by posting the Yibir interview or the Madhibaan website again. Just take it as a given that they and the UN anthropologists disagree. If you won't read or believe Somali historians such as Mire, the issue between us will have to wait for more DNA work; but personally, I find the given evidence convincing.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

So you admit they were "overwhelmed". I won't bore you by posting the Yibir interview or the Madhibaan website again. Just take it as a given that they and the UN anthropologists disagree. If you won't read or believe Somali historians such as Mire, the issue between us will have to wait for more DNA work; but personally, I find the given evidence convincing.

They are found in all ethnic groups in the Horn of Africa. Not anything unique to Somalis. DNA tests have shown that they are E1B1b - E32 like 90 % of Somalis so the only difference between them and us is occupation.

 

[Grant]

The Portuguese completely destroyed the vast Indian Ocean trade around 500 years ago and I.M Lewis mentions that Somalis abandoned civilization, farming, trade, urban towns and became nomadic after this point. So it's entirely possible for the same thing to have happened before.

I M Lewis got a lot of things wrong. The Samaales have been pastoralists at least since the Neolithic. As a group, the Cushites once had a high culture in the Sudan, but they were driven out by the Egyptian, Assyrian, and Aksumite empires. The people of the Far side ports were not Samaale. They weren't Darood either.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I M Lewis got a lot of things wrong. The Samaales have been pastoralists at least since the Neolithic. As a group, the Cushites once had a high culture in the Sudan, but they were driven out by the Egyptian, Assyrian, and Aksumite empires. The people of the Far side ports were not Samaale. They weren't Darood either.

I.M Lewis has been studying the Somali people for 50 years and is internationally recognized as the highest authority on Somali history and culture.

What are your academics? An old man who get's his knowledge from somnet and Somalispot. Please, know your place. None of his findings has been disputed by academics, something you aren't.

 

[Grant]

They are found in all ethnic groups in the Horn of Africa. Not anything unique to Somalis. DNA tests have shown that they are E1B1b - E32 like 90 % of Somalis so the only difference between them and us is occupation.

View attachment 22248

I will believe E1b1, which is the Haplotype of Mota Man. This was found to be intermediate between the negroid Ari and the Khoisan Sandawe.
The hunter groups such as the Midgan and Eyle have no direct link to the Samaales. You're going to have to do better than just making that claim.

 

[Grant]

I.M Lewis has been studying the Somali people for 50 years and is internationally recognized as the highest authority on Somali history and culture.

What are your academics? An old man who get's his knowledge from somnet and Somalispot. Please, know your place. None of his findings has been disputed by academics, something you aren't.

I M Lewis' account has been passe for years. The Somali Country Studies uses Herbert S. Lewis' account:

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/3.htm

 

[Canuck]

This is all colonial suugo science . It is now an accepted fact that the oromos did not settle in the Somali peninsula or northern Somalia . These myths were spread by colonial writers due to encounters with somali nomads (such such as the above excerpt ). The oromos were not present in northern Somalia land before the somali nor is there any proof to show harlas lived there. The oromos came into contact with Somalis during their expansion in the 16th century .

The somali nomads often assign their land to other so called predecessors for two main reasons :

1.they incorrectly assume any sign of civilization ,meaning not nomadic in nature ,must be attributed to other ethnic groups ,when we know that there has always been civilization in the somali peninsula ,especially the coastal areas .furthermore ,a pastoral lifestyle could have been adopted by the Somalis due to the drying of the land.

2.somali nomads largely believe they are descendants of Arab sheikhs ,therefore any kind of ancient pagan settlements or ruins are automatically described as being of Oromo or assigned to some alien people.

Those ruins were most likely built by the ancestors of the somali before they accepted islam .

 

[AceofSom]

I.M Lewis has been studying the Somali people for 50 years and is internationally recognized as the highest authority on Somali history and culture.

What are your academics? An old man who get's his knowledge from somnet and Somalispot. Please, know your place. None of his findings has been disputed by academics, something you aren't.

I.M Lewis and Grant are both the same, they want to write Somali history in their own words, both colonial minded.

Have you noticed everytime Somali history is been discussed, Graant magically appears from no where. Ask yourself why would a 60+ year old whiteman be so interested in Somali history and what is his motive of always trying to distort it.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I.M Lewis and Grant are both the same, they want to write Somali history in their own words, both colonial minded.

Have you noticed everytime Somali history is been discussed, Graant magically appears from no where. Ask yourself why would a 60+ year old whiteman be so interested in Somali history and what is his motive of always trying to distort it.

On Somnet there was that Cuban guy who would appear whenever the Ogaden war was discussed as well. Wallahi these cadaans are strange.

 

[AceofSom]

On Somnet there was that Cuban guy who would appear whenever the Ogaden war was discussed as well. Wallahi these cadaans are strange.

That Cuban guy was also here, I think hes harmless. But Grant is a different case, he believes hes some kind of professor in Somalia, using wikipedia facts. I think hes on a mission to distort Somali history, theirs a sinister plot with him.

 

[Striker]

On Somnet there was that Cuban guy who would appear whenever the Ogaden war was discussed as well. Wallahi these cadaans are strange.

that dude was creepy. You mention siad barre and he comes out of nowhere lol

 

[Grant]

I.M Lewis and Grant are both the same, they want to write Somali history in their own words, both colonial minded.

Have you noticed everytime Somali history is been discussed, Graant magically appears from no where. Ask yourself why would a 60+ year old whiteman be so interested in Somali history and what is his motive of always trying to distort it.

I M Lewis reported what he was told by elders of the northern clans. It is Herbert S. Lewis that destroys the north to south migration theory in the first part of his classic study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231877480_The_Origins_of_the_Galla_and_somali

I have posted it several times before, but nobody seems to want to read it.


Ace,

Attacking the messenger usually means you have run out of argument. At least realize that it was not I M Lewis that disagrees with you. Come back when you have something more than a personal opinion to contribute.

 

[AceofSom]

I M Lewis reported what he was told by elders of the northern clans. It is Herbert S. Lewis that destroys the north to south migration theory in the first part of his classic study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231877480_The_Origins_of_the_Galla_and_somali

I have posted it several times before, but nobody seems to want to read it.


Ace,

Attacking the messenger usually means you have run out of argument. At least realize that it was not I M Lewis that disagrees with you. Come back when you have something more than a personal opinion to contribute.

Iam not going to debate about Somali history with a white guy who uses wikipedia.Go debate kids.

 

[Grant]

Iam not going to debate about Somali history with a white guy who uses wikipedia.Go debate kids.

No links, huh?