Faaraxs who got rizz, is it easier to shukaansi an ajnabi or a somali girl?

[hamar_oo_iidil]

From my experience this picture accurately represents what its like to get to know a somali girl. Simple easy and straight forward. View attachment 285815

While this picture shows all the struggle you'll got through for an ajnabi View attachment 285816

I honestly think its the other way around. Dealing with some Somali girls the interaction often seems very straight forward. Its like either marry me or why are you wasting my time. But with ajnabis I feel like theres this more easy going friendship you can foster where the expectation doesn't have to be something really serious as a full blown committed marriage. You could just be friends. I've seen this occur time and time again personally. Where interacting with ajnabi girls feels a lot easier because they don't expect commitment at first sight as well as them not holding particularly negative views of Somali men in general. If anything, a lot of ajnabi women draw interest in us merely by the fact that we're so aesthetically different. I feel with xalimos a lot of the time she is afraid of you being like most other faraxs/abdis and casts judgement or makes you commit to something super serious within a very short time frame. Both of which make me feel really uncomfortable. I don't like being judged and I don't like being forced to commit to something/someone I barely even know.

 

[Angelina]

No I'm talking soically in general muslim and non Muslims alike

Islamic fiqh is meant to answer social issues.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Islamic fiqh is meant to answer social issues.

My stance is that it's bad for both since it takes 2 to tango.

Read my previous comment again I edited it.

 

[Angelina]

No I'm talking soically in general muslim and non Muslims alike. I saw this tt the other day and thinking about the convo yesterday about the different relationship dynamics has made me see things in this context with more nuance.

The idea of all women only for top men in this day and age isn’t accurate and is a redpill theory. Studies show that hypergamy has actually gone down.

However, I do believe in the theory that women being more promiscuous and less demanding for commitment does lower the quality of men. Men aren’t going to have real incentives to put in work to get women if women are going to give them a chance without putting a ring on it.

But at the same, the idea of men being allowed to sleep around whilst only policing women also creates a society in which men will try and create an underclass of women of mostly poor and dysfunctional women and turn them into prostitute or low value class by trafficking and other means. If men aren’t also disciplined, that’s the end results and we’ve seen it play out in ancient times and debauchery was rife despite there being very strict laws of middle and upper class women.

 

[Odious Delirium]

The idea of all women only for top men in this day and age isn’t accurate and is a redpill theory. Studies show that hypergamy has actually gone down.

However, I do believe in the theory that women being more promiscuous and less demanding for commitment does lower the quality of men. Men aren’t going to have real incentives to put in work to get women if women are going to give them a chance without putting a ring on it.

But at the same, the idea of men being allowed to sleep around whilst only policing women also creates a society in which men will try and create an underclass of women of mostly poor and dysfunctional women and turn them into prostitute or low value class by trafficking and other means. If men aren’t also disciplined, that’s the end results and we’ve seen it play out in ancient times and debauchery was rife despite there being very strict laws of middle and upper class women.

The chart isn't about hypergamy its about looks. People date/marry people around there lol of attractiveness but he is saying women of all lvls in attractiveness have more access then men of all lvls unless they are 8/9 or 10s and 1 to 3 guys are invisible.

More context keep in mind this doesn't really necessarily apply to Muslims because of the requirements of marriage and mahr etc

 

[Angelina]

The chart isn't about hypergamy its about looks. People date/marry people around there lol of attractiveness but he is saying women of all lvls in attractiveness have more access then men of all lvls unless they are 8/9 or 10s and 1 to 3 guys are invisible.

More context

But that’s the thing, data also shows that unattractive women are also invisible and don’t even do well in dating apps just like their unattractive male counterparts. Hence I’m at a loss as to why men like to make it all about themselves. I’ll try and find the study.

 

[Odious Delirium]

But that’s the thing, data also shows that unattractive women are also invisible and don’t even do well in dating apps just like their unattractive male counterparts. Hence I’m at a loss as to why men like to make it all about themselves. I’ll try and find the study.

Not really men care only about looks in the long term like for marriage not for the short term like a hookup. However they also care about personality in the long term while not caring in the short term.

The thing is that women consider men who are normally 4s or 5s as 1 the actual 1 to 4s are invisible. There is a study on this as for men when they look at actual ones they don't become invisible to them they become annoyed with them

This is the graph based of how women have rated men

 

[Angelina]

Not really men care only about looks in the long term like for marriage not for the short term like a hookup. However they also care about personality in the long term while not caring in the short term.

The thing is that women consider men who are normally 4s or 5s as 1 the actual 1 to 4s are invisible. There is a study on this as for men when they look at actual ones they don't become invisible to them they become annoyed with them

This is the graph based of how women have rated men

that graph has been misinterpreted. Read this thread by a data scientist. It’s very eye opening:


Also, how modern relationships are like:

Honestly, the manosphere has major influences on the net that a lot of data is slightly misunderstood and or twisted. Are their some truths to some of their points? Of course but it certainly isn’t exactly as they make it. A big myth in the manosphere/incel spaces is that attractive men get showered with attention, despite putting in no effort. The data here also indicate otherwise.

 

[Odious Delirium]

that graph has been misinterpreted. Read this thread by a data scientist. It’s very eye opening:


Also, how modern relationships are like:

View attachment 285855

Honestly, the manosphere has major influences on the net that a lot of data is slightly misunderstood and or twisted. Are their some truths to some of their points? Of course but it certainly isn’t exactly as they make it. A big myth in the manosphere/incel spaces is that attractive men get showered with attention, despite putting in no effort. The data here also indicate otherwise.

he said that it's basically all over the place and unattractive people get nothing and unattractive or average women tend to hit up attractive men up or send a lot of messages while attractive women wait to be hit up and don't hit anyone up while attractive guys hit everyone up so it doesn't really say anything against my point it support it in fact.

And in general men hit up women more on the app

 

[Angelina]

he said that it's basically all over the place and unattractive people get nothing and unattractive or average women tend to hit up attractive men up or send a lot of messages while attractive women wait to be hit up and don't hit anyone up while attractive guys hit everyone up so it doesn't really say anything against my point it support it in fact.

And in general men hit up women more on the app

In real life men hit up women so that isn’t a shocker or unusual. Also, as for your argument that average men aren’t noticed:

‘Below average men receive about as many messages as men up to the top 10%. Over a month, an average man might receive 4 messages. A man in the top 10% between 8-12.’


That kills your argument that all women go for the top 10% of men when desirable men don’t even get that many more messages and that average women have to actually behave like men to get attention. Also, desirable men actually put in more work a he notes from data:

This goes against the manosphere idea of ‘chads’ sitting around and women chasing them. It isn’t a surprise for me as in the real world attractive men that aren’t celebrities are rarely chased. They too have to put themselves out there but the difference is that attractive men are confident and don’t mind putting themselves out there.

Hence, average men aren’t invisible as you tried to claim. They’re no different to average women. So like I said, why do men act like average men have it harder?

Also, I hate that redpillers use dating apps since there are more men on saying apps than women. It’s like 3 to 1, so due to the sheer numbers men simply aren’t going to get as much likes or messages. They know this as studies make it clear yet they still insist.

 

[Odious Delirium]

In real life men hit up women so that isn’t a shocker or unusual. Also, as for your argument that average men aren’t noticed:

‘Below average men receive about as many messages as men up to the top 10%. Over a month, an average man might receive 4 messages. A man in the top 10% between 8-12.’

That kills your argument that all women go for the top 10% of men when desirable men don’t even get that many more messages and that average women have to actually behave like men to get attention. Also, desirable men actually put in more work a he notes from data:
View attachment 285859


This goes against the manosphere idea of ‘chads’ sitting around and women chasing them. It isn’t a surprise for me as in the real world attractive men that aren’t celebrities are rarely chased. They too have to put themselves out there but the difference is that attractive men are confident and don’t mind putting themselves out there.

Hence, average men aren’t invisible as you tried to claim. They’re no different to average women. So like I said, why do men act like average men have it harder?

1) I'm not even arguing from a red pill perspective so chill and

2) the whole point is that what womem deem the average man is not in fact the average man. Most women when they say they would date or want to marry an ugly guy are talking about guys who are above average according to the graph

This will explain what I'm trying to say.



I agree attractive men are more confident and reach out more but that's because of there success rate. Less attractive guys put in less effort because they get shut down more and are afraid or fed up from constant rejection. More attractive guys don't face those problems so will of course be more proactive. They also tend to be more vain or appearance focused so put more effort into that which only benefits them.

This study is about the messages back and forth. Attractive guys have the most messages out there because they are getting communication back and it's actually going somewhere. Less attractive women have to put in effort but who are they trying to put in effort for and a lot of messages on there part also denotes success. If the un attractive men have 5 per month and the unattractive womem and the attractive guys have a load of messages that means most of the exchange is take place between them.

Most unattractive guys won't say no on a dating site based off attractiveness unless she is ugly but ugly people on both sides don't get any action.

 

[Sophisticate]

You don't even need to be a woman to be hit on online just pretend you're one. I have seen this kabuki theatre renacted online for years even on Sspot.

 

[Angelina]

1) I'm not even arguing from a red pill perspective so chill and

I know but the arguments you’re using are. It’s not your fault. They’ve took over social media and most data on online dating.

2) the whole point is that what womem deem the average man is not in fact the average man. Most women when they say they would date or want to marry an ugly guy are talking about guys who are above average according to the graph

That isn’t true as he clearly states that average men get around 4 messages. So I don’t know what you’re on about. Whilst good looking men get around 8. You’re clearly not properly reading the thread. Where does the data scientist say that those men who are getting 4 messages aren’t actually in fact average but higher?

Why would you ignore this and then proceed to create your one interpretation?

This will explain what I'm trying to say.


I agree attractive men are more confident and reach out more but that's because of there success rate. Less attractive guys put in less effort because they get shut down more.

This study is about the messages back and forth. Attractive guys have the most messages out there because they are getting communications back and it's actually going somewhere. Less attractive women have to put in effort but who are they trying to put in effort for?

the study was about them getting messages first. They’re not getting that much more message first. Average men getting 4 whilst they’re getting around 8. Whilst for average women it’s around 5 and beautiful women 20! Don’t you see there are bigger differences for women than for men?

The same could be said for unattractive/average men who are they putting efforts for? Average women/unattractive women aren’t also getting that many messages as well?

Most unattractive guys won't say no on a dating site based off attractiveness unless she is ugly but ugly people on both sides don't get any action.

Like I said all along the experiences of dating online is the same for average men and women whilst you tried to claim that average men are invisible whilst average women aren’t. That’s clearly not true.

 

[Odious Delirium]

I know but the arguments you’re using are. It’s not your fault. They’ve took over social media and most data on online dating.

That isn’t true as he clearly states that average men get around 4 messages. So I don’t know what you’re on about. You’re clearly not properly reading the thread.

Why would you ignore this and then proceed to create your one interpretation?

View attachment 285871

the study was about them getting messages first. They’re not getting that much more message first. Average men getting 4 whilst they’re getting around 8. Whilst for average women it’s around 5 and beautiful women 20! Don’t you see there are bigger differences for women than for men?

The same could be said for unattractive/average men who are they putting efforts for? Average women/unattractive women aren’t also getting that many messages as well?

Like I said all along the experiences of dating online is the same for average men and women whilst you tried to claim that average men are invisible whilst average women aren’t. That’s clearly not true.

Read my comment again I edited it

 

[Angelina]

@Javelin

Unattractive women don’t get a lot of messages. The only reason why it’s emphasized that they message men first is because it goes against women’s normal dating strategy and above average women never message first. It is an illustration that they’re actually struggling and have to put themselves out there.

You made a point about average men not actually being average but above average. That doesn’t make sense as the data scientist differentiates between the average and the good looking men. Even below average men get messages, as he illustrates so your point doesn’t make sense

When you look at the graph it’s clear that average men, below average and attractive don’t have much of a difference with regards to messaging.

But for women, there is a drastic difference. Hence the idea of men being invisible but not women is laughable.

 

[NordicSomali]

It’s obviously easier to court ajnabi women compared to Somalis precisely because hijab is meant to instill modesty and a reserved attitude. If the opposite were true then that would defeat the purpose of hijab and the religious expectations. This isn’t necessarily bad, but it might mean that some girls remain single for a long time even when they’re actually open for a halal relationship.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

I do not make a habit? Are you admitting that you have engaged in it but haven’t made it into a regular thing?

That is a figure of speech meaning I do not, lest it was ambiguous.

Teenage pregnancies? That happens precisely though Zina. Most Teen pregnancies I’ve heard and seen of with regards to Somali girls the father is indeed a Somali boy/man.

Walaalo, in my youth, it was ajaanib, who were trying to corrupt our youth, mostly targeting young teenage girls, and against whom we fought tooth and nail. You might have thought then it was wrong of us to have done so, but now are an advocate of the community helping each other. Brilliant. You could thinks so, as a female, which is quite all right, but we men have a different role. You may have a point, and it might be different for the current youth, both of whom, boys and girls, might be engaging in all sorts of degeneracy. I neither excuse, nor discount social ills flowing from either.

Within my circles of friends, alike acquaintances, when we see nomads misbehaving, or as you put it engaging in zina, it is almost always with ajaanib, and not our lasses, and if youi re-read my original post, you will have realised so being the case; it might not be so with the youth of today, as you noted to have observed. However, the primary point still stands.

Do you not see that men committing fornication are creating those women who cause devastation to their families? Who are those women sleeping with? Men. Who are those men sleeping with? Women. It takes two to tango. So are your whole argument about how it’s worse for women doesn’t hold up on a societal level.

The latter cannot happen without the former. Women sleep with men and men sleep with women. Unless you’re talking about homosexuality, women’s ruin cannot happen without male Zina.

The act for both is equal because one cannot happen without the other. It’s basic common sense and only men riddled with misogyny cannot see that basic fact.

Again, I’ll repeat what I wrote in the paragraph above. Are those men still not sleeping with the very women who are damaging their families? Are those men not still creating a trail of broken families and illegitimate children?

I can easily twist your argument to suggest it’s worse. Why? Because one man can impregnate hundreds of women and upon his wreckage can ruin society a lot more than one woman who can only be impregnated by one man. A man can create thousands of illegitimate fatherless and tribeless children thus ruining society.

Also, STIs don’t discriminate and in the Somali community, most cases of HIV are because of men who think they can sleep around and then bring it to their wives. I’m sure you’ve heard of the cases of men working in other Sub-Saharan countries and then going back to Somalia.

Walaalo, you come across as if debating another, and not I, and are conflating two points: transgressions are equally as immoral and unethical irrespective of gender; we are on agreement on that. Versus the subsequent devastation is far greater when females engage in said transgression than when males do. Here we part ways. We also agree, in ours, men are the 'al qawaamuun'. Again, we part company as to which is more severe in its destruction to the family and fabric of society.

Your mentality is due to unchecked misogyny.

I wish you could have resisted saying that, for I could not bring myself to wrongly categorise your inclinations.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

@Angelina @𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈
What has objectively a worse impact on society as a whole promiscuity of men or women?

Whilst both are as morally, and ethically wrong, absolutely, and emphatically women, the cradle and fabric of the family, and by extension society.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Both. One cannot happen without the other which is why I think men who yapp on about how it’s worse for women aren’t the brightest.

The sanctity of the family rests with the woman. Here is an example: a women, who has been married to her husband for 20 years, has 5 kids; through DNA analyses, it turns out none are his biological children. Do you still think men and women are similar to the essence of the family in that respect? Do you see what I mean by the fabric of the family, and society?

Postscript:
Whilst men are as important to the family (the provider, and protector), their role is no way near that of the woman (the rearer, the nurturer,the glue that which binds the family, the coach etc), as Creator intended.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

@Audrey Hepburn
Oi, you know you could articulate your viewpoint.