We don't use those fancy intellectual erudite liberals words round ere boy *licks lips*, you need some of that country lovin sonny, we use emojis
Faaraxs who got rizz, is it easier to shukaansi an ajnabi or a somali girl?
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As nature intended, the same way a dog barks at another on the other side of the park.
@Javelin the TikTok you
Your point only works when you leave out the fact that she didnβt work alone. Another man has contributed to the destruction of a family.
Yes and who impregnated her? Another woman or a man? Do you not see that if men didnβt fornicate as well we wonβt be getting stories like this?
Your point only works when you leave out the fact that she didnβt work alone. Another man has contributed to the destruction of a family.
Walaal, that is a clever way of engaging in evasion tactic, which fails in all instances. Does it matter who impregnated her?
I made that point earlier, and did not fancy revisiting it. Think about what happens when a young girl in one's family gets pregnant; it is no longer just her, or the child, but the entire family. One is not going to sit back and pontificate: what about the boy?
Postscript:
Another example: a non-Muslim neighbour recently had his daughter get pregnant by way of Spring Break encounter: father was opposed to her going whereas mother conspired with the daughter, and even paying for her room and board. Fast forward: the entire family disintegrated, marriage dissolved, daughter disowned, son moved out of the family home. Now, the mother and her pregnant daughter are left in the house, as if damned daemons, and that is in Conservative America.
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No it's more like a dog barking at a sock puppet substitute.
The thing is the dog doesn't know better but the Abdi that got conned can feel the L of being had by a lad.Oh yes those cat-fishes are a riot. I was listening to a podcast the other day where this poor sod has been 'dating' and financing a pretty model he met online only to discover it was a 300 lbs hairy gorilla of a bloke.No it's more like a dog barking at a sock puppet substitute.
W for the fatman
It does matter when we look at fornication on a societal level. Since youβre talking about women being the βfabricβ of society, how can such a society function if men ruining this very fabric is taken lightly
Itβs why the Prophet s.a.w asked a man before implementing the hadd punishment on him, what if it was your daughter or your sister? Also youβre forgetting unwanted children arenβt the only issues with regardless of extra marital affairs. There have been cases of Somali men working in South Africa who have infected their Somali brides and unborn children with HIV. What a massive calamity and how can we argue that is less tame than what you just described?
Furthermore, the damage of male promiscuity as Iβve mentioned can be a lot more far reaching. One man can ruin thousands of families in a year. Whilst one woman can only get pregnant by one man. Men can spread vice far more? So why would we more lax towards men? Itβs very simple, we live in a manβs world and men donβt hold themselves accountable.
I know what youβre getting at, but my point still stands, that girl didnβt get herself pregnant and since weβre talking about it from a societal perspective and itβs impact long term, men committing Zina is indeed exactly the same as when they do sleep around the end result is an illegitimate child and a ruined family. You canβt divorce male promiscuity from the damage that happens as theyβre part of the process. Iβve made it clear earlier on, the only way we can divorce male promiscuity from the impact on families is societies in which their is a female underclass that caters to men and thatβs prostitution and in those societies in order to create that class it was mostly through the supply of working class women trafficked to prostitution. Like I said you canβt realistically divorce male and female promiscuity. Thatβs why the punishment is the same even the dunya.
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Valid points. Let me summarise it:
In a nutshell, we are in agreement upon:
a) Zina is morally, and ethically wrong, for it is haram,
b) Both men and women must not engage in any of its forms, for it begets harm to the family, and society at large.
We disagree:
a) I am of the view it bears far greater devastation upon the family, and by extension society, where women engage in transgressions, and degeneracy.
b) You are of the view it is equally as bad.
simple logic:
The damage of male promiscuity as Iβve mentioned can be a lot more far reaching. One man can ruin thousands of families in a year. Whilst one woman can only get pregnant by one man. Men can spread vice far more? So why would we be more lax towards men?
You canβt argue that female promiscuity creates greater issues for society than men as one man can create 10 times even 1000 more issues. If you want to argue female promiscuity creates issues for an immediate family as theyβll be responsible for the offspring then okay, but deffo not society.
Even in ancient societies in which female virginity were prized and girls from good families were guarded with strict rules, depravity was rampant. All it created was an under class of exploited women (poor women) and prostitution via trafficking and other horrible means. Male libido and what it leads to can be horrific. Simply reading up on the Greeks, and more recently Victorian Britain should illustrate to you how only focusing on female promiscuity creates major problems for society at large.
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By the way, I consider promiscuity, but a minor subset of bigger ills that which plague societies in the collapse of morality, spread of decadency, and degeneracy at the core, but your point is being received.
This point is worthy a revisitation, and I wish to stick here, for I wish to come back to as time permits.
I don't know how you guys spit game/try to smash Somali girls without feeling guilt. Even if she's not wearing a hijab and has revealing clothes on, my conscious won't let me
Why are you feeling guilty? A lot of women want to be chatted up, they just want to seem hard to get. I get a feeling that you've gone through something called arrested development, I'm a certified arm chair psychologist of the shaqo la'aan institution
Hamzza
VIP
Agreed.
The Wife doing zina simply creates more harm to the family than the husband doing it
1. It corrupts lineage(i.e. father could be wrongfully attributed). This is hated by Allah.
2. It also corrupts inheritance and kinship
3. Causes humiliation to the husband for being married to a wh0re
4. Violates what was purely the husband's right(Men are allowed to be with multiple women at once of course through halal means)
An individual level yes, but socially on a wide scale itβs the same hence why both men and women have the exact same punishment in the Dunya. If it wasnβt the same, womenβs adultery would be punished more like in other cultures. That isnβt the same in the Islam. I know you do get some scholars like Ibn Qadama or the other Hanbali scholar canβt remember his name. I think Iβm getting them confused.
Also, even the point you made about lineage, the kids belong to the husband either way. The adulterer Zani man gets nothing. The kids will be seen as belonging to the marriage bed.
I do see where youβre coming from but letβs be real all that youβve listed cannot happen if there wasnβt a man behind it enabling this ruin.
Abdisamad
VIP
You mean the cheating wife's kids/kid would be the responsibility of the husband she cheated on? What kind of feminist bullshit is that? The husband should throw her and the kid/kids upon finding out their his biologically.
Nope, nothing feminist. Not my views at all. Like I wouldnβt ever advocate for that at all. Itβs just basic Islam. The kids belong to the marriage bed, thatβs me paraphrasing a Hadith here. Btw this conversation is nothing but an academic debate for me. In the real world, id tell a man to engage in Lβiaan (going to the masjid and swearing the child isnβt his and if it is may the curse of God be upon him). That was how theyβd get out of it.
The idea is that the male Zaani gets nothing. Hence if an unmarried woman fornicates and has a child, the biological father has no rights to the child as well. Itβs falls into that thinking.
Abdisamad
VIP
Well that's the whole point of committing zina, many men want the sex but not the responsibility, I didn't know Islam would relieve such men of their responsibility after committing zina with a married woman.. That's a messed up hadith.
I donβt think the mentality behind is that. Firstly, they didnβt have DNA testing in those days hence lineage is based on marriage. Example if a woman cheats, there is a possibility the child could be her husbands child as if sheβs been with both, sheβd have no clue. Hence the idea behind it was, who has more rights? The husband or the Zaani? That is why the child would be attributed to the husband instead. An unmarried woman who has a child with a man has basically birthed a fatherless child that is attributed soley to her as she didnβt have that kid via the marriage bed.
Im not going to lie, I was very confused when I first heard this as well.
Abdisamad
VIP
There are too many hadiths in Islam and some of them don't make sense, this one must be one of those.. But anyway thank God we have DNA testing technology today.
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