Ethiopia recognizes NW secessionist movement

[Zak12]

Did the AU chairman suggest how the Somaliland status should be resolved? Nope.
Did he say it shouldn't be resolved by external actors? Nope

So you can see that the US is actually holding a firmer line than the AU is.

Anyway. I can't be bothered. Look into these things in your own time.

He literally states, and I quote, "to respect unity, territorial integrity and full sovereignty of all African Union member states including the Federal Republic of Somalia".

You are arguing semantics at this point, just because they didn't explicitly state that Somaliland isn't allowed to be recognized by others doesn't mean they don't agree with the deal or that America is forcing them to say those things.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

I'm not agreeing with him per se

I'm just saying in 1991 the policy was (and kinda still is) to maintain a 'status quo' . Egal was rejected in the rudest way possible.

Nobody wants a renewed Somali state of any kind to emerge whether it is a restored Somalia or a divided one constituting two or more functioning Somali states.

Africa is resistant to unilateral declarations of independence. We all know that because of how countries were formed in the continent.

There's no great conspiracy to keep Somalis down. They do that all by themselves (particularly in South Somalia).

 

[Zak12]

There's no great conspiracy to keep Somalis down

Says the guy saying America is preventing Somaliland's recognition. At least be consistent.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Says the guy saying America is preventing Somaliland's recognition. At least be consistent.

Clans in the south didn't agree powersharing and decided to fihgt in the south, that's why a Somali state didn't emerge there.

Somaliland had a unilateral independence declaration which in africa is a difficult thing to sell.

These are two seperate things. Putting them togther and saying that the Somali ethnicity is being kept down is not realistic honestly.

 

[Zak12]

that's why a Somali state didn't emerge there.

The ICU existed you know. Unless you mean democratic states.

Somaliland had a unilateral independence declaration which in africa is a difficult thing to sell.

And it isn't prevented by America for the same reason all of these unreognized states weren't.

List of historical unrecognized states - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because no one wants to recognize countries unless it benefits them. So unless Somaliland has something to offer to the world, good luck

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

The ICU existed you know. Unless you mean democratic states.

And it isn't prevented by America for the same reason all of these unreognized states weren't.

List of historical unrecognized states - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because no one wants to recognize countries unless it benefits them. So unless Somaliland has something to offer to the world, good luck

Dude I'm not arguing the same point again.

 

[Zak12]

Dude I'm not arguing the same point again.

Because you lost it

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Because you lost it

You live in a world of winners and losers, not me.

 

[Zak12]

You live in a world of winners and losers, not me.

We all do. Somaliland is the loser in this case.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

We all do. Somaliland is the loser in this case.

If you insist. But generally speaking not everything fits into the winner/loser binary. Many things do but not all things. Something end up being lose/lose like continuing this conversation with both us losing our time.

 

[Zak12]

If you insist. But generally speaking not everything fits into the winner/loser binary. Many things do but not all things. Something end up being lose/lose like continuing this conversation with both us losing our time.

Even lose/lose situations still fit within the paradigm of winning or losing.

 

[Abdisamad]

Even lose/lose situations still fit within the paradigm of winning or losing.

Finally you managed to shut down his annoying mosquito sound

 

[Aurelian]

HSM always quitely takes it.

 

[Periplus]

It's just colonial hypocrisy who's time to end has come.

Ironically, the same can be said for Somaliland.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Ironically, the same can be said for Somaliland.

Is Italian Somaliland in some kind of resurgence?

 

[Periplus]

Is Italian Somaliland in some kind of resurgence?

You can attempt to project "Italian Somaliland", however, Somalia is the only African country that does not speak the language of their coloniser.

The thesis of Somalia is based on being a homeland of the Somali people, which is why we are against Somaliland's secession. Somaliland's identity is based on being a homeland for those within colonial borders.

You can never shake off these facts.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

You can attempt to project "Italian Somaliland", however, Somalia is the only African country that does not speak the language of their coloniser.

The thesis of the Somalia is based on being a homeland of the Somali people, which is why we are against Somaliland's secession. Somaliland's identity is based on being a homeland for those within colonial borders.

You can never shake off these facts.

Somalia isn't even a country. It's a failed ethnostate project.

If Somalia understood and respected borders and tried a different approach after independence it might exist right now.

Italian Somaliland was a place, so was the State of Somalia, but the Somali Republic was a doomed idea.

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Somalia isn't even a country. It's a failed ethnostate project.

If Somalia understood and respected borders and tried a different approach after independence it might exist right now.

Italian Somaliland was a place, so was the State of Somalia, but the Somali Republic was a doomed idea.

Just to clarify a bit. You look at the definition of a country and it includes a defined territory.

80 years after independence to still have no set idea on what the defined territory is or who the population is that not a sign of total failure? Using words like thesis after 80 years? Be real.

Somaliland has been seeking seccession for 30+ years. Compare that to the Somali ethnostate project 80 years and counting.

 

[Periplus]

Somalia isn't even a country. It's a failed ethnostate project.

If Somalia understood and respected borders and tried a different approach after independence it might exist right now.

Italian Somaliland was a place, so was the State of Somalia, but the Somali Republic was a doomed idea.

Unlike many, I will concede that Somalia is a failed ethnostate. It is a failed state that is also an ethnostate, so its not an insult but a reality.

As for "respecting borders", I assume you are referring to the Ogaden and the NFD. The Ethiopian Empire did not uphold its agreement of controlling Ogaden with the United Kingdom when it annexed the region, therefore it is null and void. As for the NFD, the British government reneged on their word on reuniting the NFD in 1960 as well as disregarding popular opinion highlighted in the plebiscite.

You cannot argue that Somaliland should be independent because that's what Somalilanders want but argue that Somalia was wrong for acting on the desires of the residents of the NFD and the Ogaden.

As for Somaliland, with the utmost respect to Somalilanders, it is a failed project also. Its economy will always be at par with Somalia at best unless it gets its secession recognised. Its military will always be less equipped, its development will lag behind as most dollars will go to Mogadishu and its population will grow at a slower rate.

As long as we're both being real walaal.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Just to clarify a bit. You look at the definition of a country and it includes a defined territory.

80 years after independence to still have no set idea on what the defined territory is or who the population is that not a sign of total failure? Using words like thesis after 80 years? Be real.

Somaliland has been seeking seccession for 30+ years. Compare that to the Somali ethnostate project 80 years and counting.

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