Do you consider yourself to be a feminist and why?

[Angelina]

In Islam, the genders are equal in one thing. That is, that their gender is equally irrelevant in the eyes of Allah when it comes to judging superiority.

There is no equality and neither is there superiority. We were created in ways that compliment one another.

There is no real equality even amongst men. Yet, we'd argue that all men are equal regardless of strength , wealth, backgrounds ect. The reason why we would insist they are equal is because we believe they are equal in value.

Men and women are most definitely equal in value. Not believing so is why we have incredibly sexist and horrid treatment of women across the world, particularly in Eastern countries who love to scream that men and women aren't equal.

But if you want to be strict with the definition of equality. Then no one is truly equal.

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

There is no real equality even amongst men. Yet, we'd argue that all men are equal regardless of strengh, wealth, backgrounds ect. The reason why we would insist they are equal is because we believe they are equal in value.

Men and women are most definitely equal in value. Not believing so is why we have incredibly sexist and horrid treatment of women across the world, particularly in Eastern countries who love to scream that men and women aren't equal.

But if you want to be strict with the definition of equality. Then no one is truly equal.

This doesn't contradict my statement.

One's wealth, race, lineage, age, strength etc is equally irrelevant in the eyes of Allah when it comes to judging superiority. Superiority in Islam is defined by righteousness.

Every Muslim life is equally valuable. The khalifah and the poor downtrodden Muslim are both equal in their value and none should face mistreatment.

Believing one gender is superior or more valuable than the other is unIslamic.

The equality I'm against is the one campaigned for by the feminists, which is the equality of rights and social treatment between the genders. This however, doesn't mean I'm against the well treatment of our womenfolk. It just means that there are unequal treatments given to both men and women in relation to one another, and that's not a bad thing.

Those that would infer that all injustice against women come from this idea that there is inequalities in treatment and rights between the genders are the same ones that hail the idea that egalitarianism is the greatest standard of justice. This ofcourse is in disagreement with the principals of Islam.

A woman has the right to financial provision that men don't have. The court assigns a mahram for her, whether that be her male relatives or her husband, to take care of all her needs(clothing, shelter, food), and provide for her the same standard of living that they recieve. If she doesn't have any mahrams, then the Khalifah(state) will take up that role and provide her all her basic needs and give her a good standard of living, essentially welfare.

Men obviously don't get this, but we wouldn't say this is evil or immoral now would we? But from an egalitarian perspective, it is.

 

[Angelina]

This doesn't contradict my statement.

One's wealth, race, lineage, age, strength etc is equally irrelevant in the eyes of Allah when it comes to judging superiority. Superiority in Islam is defined by righteousness.

Every Muslim life is equally valuable. The khalifah and the poor downtrodden Muslim are both equal in their value and none should face mistreatment.

Believing one gender is superior or more valuable than the other is unIslamic.

The equality I'm against is the one campaigned for by the feminists, which is the equality of rights and social treatment between the genders. This however, doesn't mean I'm against the well treatment of our womenfolk. It just means that there are unequal treatments given to both men and women in relation to one another, and that's not a bad thing.

Those that would infer that all injustice against women come from this idea that there is inequalities in treatment and rights between the genders are the same ones that hail the idea that egalitarianism is the greatest standard of justice. This ofcourse is in disagreement with the principals of Islam.

A woman has the right to financial provision that men don't have. The court assigns a mahram for her, whether that be her male relatives or her husband, to take care of all her needs(clothing, shelter, food), and provide for her the same standard of living that they recieve. If she doesn't have any mahrams, then the Khalifah(state) will take up that role and provide her all her basic needs and give her a good standard of living, essentially welfare.

Men obviously don't get this, but we wouldn't say this is evil or immoral now would we? But from an egalitarian perspective, it is.

The last points you made are irrelevant because in the real world and for centuries may I add, women didn't get that as well.

Poor women, single mothers and women who don't have men in their lives or have lazy ones, always had to work for their bread. They are in fact, the poorest demographic.

The reality is that women are denied a lot of things under the guise of men and women 'not being the same' and are also denied basic Islamic rights based on the whims and desires of the men in their society.

I fully understand that men and women aren't equal when it comes to certain aspects of Islamic law, but basic things like the right to education, the right to provide for themselves, the right to not be forced in a marriage, the right to not be preyed upon my older men and then be forced to drop out of school to marry are all contentious issues in many Muslim countries and on top of that women are told that they're protected for instance you've mentioned the Kafalla system with regards to women, but that never happens. In fact, widows and single mothers are often left in poverty if they don't have the ability to work for themselves or marry. In many Eastern countries, widowed and divorced women are stigmatized hence find it hard to marry and many conservative countries also make female employment and education difficult and they're married off before they even have the chance to gain knowledge.

Women are seriously in a catch 22 situation in real life all because men want to talk about how we're not equal.

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

The last points you made are irrelevant because in the real world and for centuries may I add, women didn't get that as well.

Poor women, single mothers and women who don't have men in their lives or have lazy ones, always had to work for their bread. They are in fact, the poorest demographic.

The reality is that women are denied a lot of things under the guise of men and women 'not being the same' and are also denied basic Islamic rights based on the whims and desires of the men in their society.

I fully understand that men and women aren't equal when it comes to certain aspects of Islamic law, but basic things like the right to education, the right to provide for themselves, the right to not be forced in a marriage, the right to not be preyed upon my older men and then be forced to drop out of school to marry are all contentious issues in many Muslim countries and on top of that women are told that they're protected for instance you've mentioned the Kafalla system with regards to women, but that never happens. In fact, widows and single mothers are often left in poverty if they don't have the ability to work for themselves or marry. In many Eastern countries, widowed and divorced women are stigmatized hence find it hard to marry and many conservative countries also make female employment and education difficult and they're married off before they even have the chance to gain knowledge.

Women are seriously in a catch 22 situation in real life all because men want to talk about how we're not equal.

Strawman.

Before I address your points, tell me this. Is it right to assume that what you're saying is pointing to trends in the Muslim world post-colonization(the current Muslim world) or are you saying that these things where happening both pre and post colonization?

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

"Therefore, by saying Islam is against it, you’re saying that Allah SWT sees one gender as less equal than the other."

That's exactly the point he's trying to make about your original question... Islam see's men as being superior to women


Genuine question, are you trolling?

No lol

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

Islamic feminism

No such thing buddy.

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

Equality is having any disadvantages or advantages cancel out, creating a state of balance

Lol, that's your definition. I'm sure all types of feminists will hound you for believing in that definition of equality.

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

There are too many different types of feminism.

Liberal feminsm (the worst type), radical feminism, marxist feminism, womanism (black feminism) and the list goes on.

And all of them are unIslamic.

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

you gotta drop your ego sometimes and think in womens pov. its helped me be a good person to female friends and partners by empathizing with them. when you're friends with women and they tell you bout their daily experiences you start thinking damn niggas really aint shit wallahi. doesnt mean you should become a simp and read feminist novels everyday, even simple things like acknowledging your privilege is the right way forward.

Predator vibes lol

 

[Jeghbamjdb]

I understand there is alot of loopholes in the movement that is contradictory to Islam but I support the textbook definition of feminism that @Periplus posted.

If humans are spiritually equal in the eyes of God, which is the most important criteria since our purpose in this life is to worship Allah, then we are all equal regardless of our race, gender, age etc..

That wouldn't be feminism tho.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Thank you kind sir. I know that each of us women here can have different opinions but it’s all about being able to freely express them.


I just try to be fair when it comes to any topic without bashing anyone.

Wait, is @JohnCena a woman? A woman hiding behind a man's nick?

 

[Man with a garuun]

That wouldn't be feminism tho.

Western feminism is all about Rove vs Wade (i.e., access to abortion); white women (mostly Jewish) taking 90% of federal grants designated for Affirmative Action, and access to Yale and Harvard Law schools under the guise of being "women"; sleeping with men through consensual sexual relationships, accuse them for rape, and then follow up with civil suit especially if the guy is rich; and do any ungodly act under the guise she is a free woman to do what she wished........the list is long.

 

[Periplus]

yes, what is the list?

Sorry I have been away for a few days.

In Australia, we have academics and activist such as Susan Carland and Yasmin Abdel-Magied. Somalia has individuals such as Ilwad Elman and numerous others that are fighting gender based violence and FGM back home.

 

[Periplus]

Equality between the genders in what?

The laws in inheritance are unequal, the rights of men and women in marriage are not equal, etc.

And don't say equally relevant, because I'm sure many feminists will vehemently disagree with you on that one.

The laws of inheritance are unequal and so is women receiving mehr.

Doesn't mean that men are a lesser gender in Islam. Each gender receives advantages and disadvantages that makes them equal in the eyes of Allah SWT.

As for feminists disagreeing, they do not necessarily gatekeep the definition of feminism or the definition of equality. No two people have the same approach to feminism.

 

[Bundasliga]

Doesn't mean that men are a lesser gender in Islam. Each gender receives advantages and disadvantages that makes them equal in the eyes of Allah SWT.

The advantages and disadvantages have nothing to with their equal-ness.
I don't know where you get that from.

 

[Periplus]

The advantages and disadvantages have nothing to with their equal-ness.
I don't know where you get that from.

Yes, it does. Numerous imams have said the advantages and disadvantages make the genders "equal but not identical".

 

[Omar del Sur]

Sorry I have been away for a few days.

In Australia, we have academics and activist such as Susan Carland and Yasmin Abdel-Magied. Somalia has individuals such as Ilwad Elman and numerous others that are fighting gender based violence and FGM back home.

so why does there need to be a new "ism" for this?

I believe in the rights of men, I believe in the rights of women, of different ethnicities and nationalities, I believe in the rights of children, I believe in the rights of animals.

you don't need any new ism or any outside ideology that isn't Islam in order to uphold the rights of various groups. you are a man- I assume you believe you have rights and you believe in your rights. you don't need an ism to believe in your own rights under Islam.

I think I'll stick with just being Muslim. That is all that is needed. Islam already covers the rights of everyone.

and this person from Australia named Yasmin who I had never heard of.... I looked her up and any person who likes can listen:

Spoiler: Yasmin feminist activist

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

(I urge men to lower their gaze and just listen to her speak but not stare at her)

her understanding of sharia is obviously contrary to Islam. it just shows that time and time again, feminists are constantly pushing things that go against Islam. sharia is not just a personal thing between between yourself and God as she depicts it. contrary to how she portrays it- sharia is indeed meant to regulate society and it is not just a private thing regulating for example how you pray salaah.

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islām as religion

Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3

Alhamdulilaah, Islam is already perfect and complete. It doesn't need any updates or new additions. and as far as these feminists- we should be listening to scholars, not these feminist activists.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Yes, it does. Numerous imams have said the advantages and disadvantages make the genders "equal but not identical".

View attachment 221443

Zakir Naik himself acknowledges that he is a daee, not a scholar.

This is a scholar and one of the major scholars of modern times:



Islam calls to justice, not equality. The Sheikh explains it better than I can and shows it from the Quran.

 

[Bundasliga]

Yes, it does. Numerous imams have said the advantages and disadvantages make the genders "equal but not identical".

View attachment 221443

That sounds far stretched

They already are equal of value in the eyes of Allah regardless of disadvantage or advantage .
What are even advantages or disadvantages you talking about?

 

[Omar del Sur]

what I see a lot is stuff like "we need feminism because Muslim men are violating the rights of women given to them by Allah!"

if that's the case then what's needed is to explain the specific rights of women under Islam that relate to the issue, explain what Islamic rights are being violated and then to implement whatever part of Islam it is in relation to the rights of women that isn't being implemented. none of this requires trying to add or subtract anything from Islam.

if someone is really passionate about women's rights or about learning about the jinn, dangers of witchcraft, hadith, Dajjal and end times, etc..... all that is covered under Islam, there isn't a need for any new ideology or outside ideology. these are all areas covered under Islam and you would just study whichever is the particular area you have a particular interest in. there's no need for to adopt any outside ideology unless what is you want isn't in line with Islam.