Debating if Islam is tied to Somali ethnicity

[Khanderson]

you cant refute me. somalis have no well documented identity pre islam.

iraqis have a christian community.
egyptians have christians and churches.
palestinians have christians and churches.

somalis do not. somalis are not just ethnicity but an ethnoreligious people.

Somalis haven’t founded Islam they’ve adapted to it just like other cultures and groups.

it’s why it’s considered as a “universal religion”

Jews have founded Judaism since Moses and the prophets were Jews.

Why are Jews considered as ethno-religion why Somalis aren’t?

because Jews and Judaism are strictly connected to each other. through culture, roots, history, language and race.

Somalis are not comparable.

 

[Khanderson]

@xoogster

@reer

let’s take the thread here. since we’ve derailed the other thread.

 

[Nikka]

Leaving the religion doesn't make you non Somali in a literal sense. Just look at this girl. She has zero remaining aspects of Somali cultural or lingual Identity. Murtads are also more likely to marry outside their Identity further diluting their Somalinimo.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/anyone-know-a-somali-christian.141530/#post-3495846

 

[Osiris1]

Why is this even a debate? No, we aren't ethnoreligious.

 

[Smokybob03]

As someone said earlier we would not be having wars and civil strife based on qabilism in the 21st century if we were ethnorelgiois. GAALO countries have moved past qabilism without needing to be informed tribalism is wrong. We are just finished and. Savage. Accept it as it is.

 

[Hamzza]

Yes yes yes. You can't be Gaal and Somali that's an oxymoron.

 

[Aurelian]

Our ethnicity is very much homogenous, and our people were Muslims for so long that, our culture and costumes has islamic context. So if someone left islam will not become non somali, but that he will be in a strange place since his culture intertwined with islam. So a Somali with waaqism can't adjust to his/her society norms and costumes.

 

[Khanderson]

Leaving the religion doesn't make you non Somali in a literal sense. Just look at this girl. She has zero remaining aspects of Somali cultural or lingual Identity. Murtads are also more likely to marry outside their Identity further diluting their Somalinimo.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/anyone-know-a-somali-christian.141530/#post-3495846

Okay, there are Somali Muslims who marries other Muslims that are non Somalis.

aren’t they also diluting the Somali genes?

Or this judgment only fixating on non Muslims Somalis?

again, you’re also forgetting there are: Jamaicans Muslims, Anglo Muslims and Iraqis.
Are they more Somalis than a non-Muslim Somali?

 

[Khanderson]

Yes yes yes. You can't be Gaal and Somali that's an oxymoron.

But claiming a false linage is not?

 

[Nikka]

Okay, there are Somali Muslims who marries other Muslims that are non Somalis.

aren’t they also diluting the Somali genes?

Or this judgment only fixating on non Muslims Somalis?

again, you’re also forgetting there are: Jamaicans Muslims, Anglo Muslims and Iraqis.
Are they more Somalis than a non-Muslim Somali?

They are both doing the same thing. A half Somali Muslim would have more Somalinimo then a murtad that abandoned his deen. A half Somali could integrate back into his community and marry a fellow Somali but the same can't be said of a murtad. Murtads marry other gaal which in our case are Ajnabis.

 

[Hamzza]

But claiming a false linage is not.

My lineage was verified by experts

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

The earliest mention of the name "Somali" being referred to us was in the 15th century when the Abyssinian king declared victory over Ifat. We didn't always have a singular ethnic identity throughout time nor where we called the same. Our ethnic identity formed when we embraced Islam. Anyone who wasn't a Muslim were considered Gaal, that means kafir and it also means foreigner. Like when the horde of Oromos where dubbed "Gaal Madow." Islam is intertwined with our Somali Identity. If Yibir were ostracized and look down upon due to the myth their tribal leader was the only to physically resist Islam, what do you think of others? Some say the ethnic group like rendille were Somalis but they didn't convert thus became something else. Oromos didn't convert to Islam because they would say if you convert you become a Somali. Even british account say that Somalis are bigotted "Mohammedan." This just shows that Islam is inseparable from our ethnic identity. Its even worse than a Somali who cannot speak Somali. We are even more ethnoreligious than Jews. A Jew who isn't Jewish is still considered a Jew.

You bunch of liberals may downvote me. You do not represent the majority of Somalis. Go back to Somalia and ask a random, if a Somali who is a kafir is considered Somali, they will say no.

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

Why is this even a debate? No, we aren't ethnoreligious.

#murtadwatch #munafiqwatch #gaalraacwatch

 

[BLM]

It doesn’t really matter. Only one type of Somali could live openly and proudly back home in the past and today. I don’t know why people want to distance themselves from Islam when it’s what gave us honour and heritage. Unlike Persians we had nothing going for us before Islam. Persians had the Persian Empire. What did we have that’s verifiable? There’s no archaeology in Somalia besides semitic carvings and drawings on a cave. Our history started with Islam so you really have nothing to be proud about as a Somali except the Muslim sultanates of Somalia, the Dervish resistance against the colonial empire, and classical Muslim scholars who were Somali that are big names within Islamic scholarship. Murtads have Ayan Hirsi and Muslims have Said of Mogadishu who discovered an island in the Maldives. Muslim Somalis had interactions with Ancient China. Murtads had interactions with Jung-kook. You really have nothing to be proud about and have no heritage besides what we gave to you and abandoned. You would have to start fresh and create a new identity. Murtad “Somali” history starts in the 21st century and your new ethnicity. What would you guys call it? I’m interested in seeing how this new race will progress in the world.

 

[Khanderson]

The earliest mention of the name "Somali" being referred to us was in the 15th century when the Abyssinian king declared victory over Ifat. We didn't always have a singular ethnic identity throughout time nor where we called the same. Our ethnic identity formed when we embraced Islam.

If that was true which I doubt btw why are we still segregated through clans?

isn’t tribalism prohibited in Islam? You guys failed to follow the very thing you paint yourselves.

A Jew who isn't Jewish is still considered a Jew.

Which is kinda embarrassing. A Jewish person still recognise their own even when they’re not adapting to their faiths.

What makes Jews more ethno-religious is they
have founded the faith while Somalis are more of a follower than founders.

 

[Som]

Somali is both an ethnicity and a cultural identity. Ethnicity itself has no religion but culture is clearly/identity is clearly linked to Islam just like most European countries are tied to Christianity. This doesn't mean you have to be Muslim to be Somali, it's just the historical cultural background of somaliness that is closely associated with Islam. In the same way westerners even atheist ones say they have Judeo-Christian roots

 

[Som]

The earliest mention of the name "Somali" being referred to us was in the 15th century when the Abyssinian king declared victory over Ifat. We didn't always have a singular ethnic identity throughout time nor where we called the same. Our ethnic identity formed when we embraced Islam. Anyone who wasn't a Muslim were considered Gaal, that means kafir and it also means foreigner. Like when the horde of Oromos where dubbed "Gaal Madow." Islam is intertwined with our Somali Identity. If Yibir were ostracized and look down upon due to the myth their tribal leader was the only to physically resist Islam, what do you think of others? Some say the ethnic group like rendille were Somalis but they didn't convert thus became something else. Oromos didn't convert to Islam because they would say if you convert you become a Somali. Even british account say that Somalis are bigotted "Mohammedan." This just shows that Islam is inseparable from our ethnic identity. Its even worse than a Somali who cannot speak Somali. We are even more ethnoreligious than Jews. A Jew who isn't Jewish is still considered a Jew.

You bunch of liberals may downvote me. You do not represent the majority of Somalis. Go back to Somalia and ask a random, if a Somali who is a kafir is considered Somali, they will say no.

Islam is just one part of Somali identity. Just because someone is not Muslim i wouldn't they aren't Somali. If you are ethnically Somali you are somali period

 

[Khanderson]

It doesn’t really matter. Only one type of Somali could live openly and proudly back home in the past and today. I don’t know why people want to distance themselves from Islam when it’s what gave us honour and heritage.
Unlike Persians we had nothing going for us before Islam. Persians had the Persian Empire. What did we have that’s verifiable? There’s no archaeology in Somalia besides semitic carvings and drawings on a cave. Our history started with Islam so you really have nothing to be proud about as a Somali except the Muslim sultanates of Somalia, the Dervish resistance against the colonial empire, and classical Muslim scholars who were Somali that are big names within Islamic scholarship. Murtads have Ayan Hirsi and Muslims have Said of Mogadishu who discovered an island in the Maldives. Muslim Somalis had interactions with Ancient China. Murtads had interactions with Jung-kook. You really have nothing to be proud about and have no heritage besides what we gave to you and abandoned. You would have to start fresh and create a new identity. Murtad “Somali” history starts in the 21st century and your new ethnicity. What would you guys call it? I’m interested in seeing how this new race will progress in the world.

Yes: Somalis were influenced by Islamic civilisation which is good. Every communities from different cultures do celebrate the religion their ancestors believed in; and that have shaped and contributed to their society.

when the Rome conquered half of Europe they influenced their religion, law, culture and their political system. which changed the history of Europe.

The religion that strengthen them and helped them was Christianity now that the west have become more secular and tolerant they lost their ways.

however, they can still find a way to connect through culture, history and ancestry.

Somalis may have been Muslim for centuries but that doesn’t mean your ethnicity is tied to your religion.

Maybe in the cultural aspect and that’s to a degree since Somalis were Muslims for centuries; but even that’s not enough since being Somali is about sharing the same genetic profile, speaking the same language and knowing your oral roots.

Sorry to say this: being a Somali is more than just following a religion.

 

[Khanderson]

Somali is both an ethnicity and a cultural identity. Ethnicity itself has no religion but culture is clearly/identity is clearly linked to Islam just like most European countries are tied to Christianity. This doesn't mean you have to be Muslim to be Somali, it's just the historical cultural background of somaliness that is closely associated with Islam. In the same way westerners even atheist ones say they have Judeo-Christian roots

You made a understandable point but it still doesn’t feel right.

Islam didn’t come from the Somalis it came from the Arabs yet they’re not prideful enough to call themselves as ethno-religion; since there are Arab Christians and Arab atheist.

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

Islam is just one part of Somali identity. Just because someone is not Muslim i wouldn't they aren't Somali. If you are ethnically Somali you are somali period

One part? Its a essential part. I would say a Somali with two ethnic somali parents who is a muslim but can't speak the language or knows anything about dhaqan is a Somali.

I deeply suspect people like you, I doubt your faith in Islam. I doubt that you have any al wala wal bara meaning love and hate for the sake of Allah. I suspect love for those Allah hates. It deeply saddens me that Somali Muslims on this forum share your view.

Also the definition of culture is

"the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society."

So this means believing in Allah, as all Somalis do is culture, its our custom and idea. Praying, paying zakaat, fasting, going to hajj. Believing in Allah, the angels, the books of Allah, the Prophets and predestination is all culture. When you people think of culture you think of dhaanto, you think of guntiino, you think of other dances, but it isnt limited to only that. Islam has shaped our mind, it shaped our identity, our daily choices. Islam encompasses our whole life, our whole day we pray 5 times a day, prostrating to Allah and this isn't knew, I learned it from my parents, my parents learned it from theirs my grandparents learned it from theirs etc. 1400 years. Islam is so fundamentally woven into our daily day and you dare to belittle it by saying

Islam is "just" one part of Somali identity

This phrase says a lot about you as a person and your relationship with Islam.

Wallahi I have more in common, more love; more brotherly love for a non Somali Muslim and closer than a filthy, evil disgusting murtad gaal. I can't force you to adopt my perception, but wallahi I will never consider a murtad gaal whom Allah hates as Somali. Islam is everything for me. Islam is both our religion and our culture and Muslim is our identity. Only thing differentiating me from an Arab Muslim, is language and phenotype.