DEBATE: Muhammad (SAW) Marriage to Aisha || Is Minor Marriage Acceptable?

[Dualke]

 

[Omar del Sur]

wallahi this makes me mad that the marriage to Aisha would even be a debate. nothing rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did was wrong.... the marriage to Aisha as a topic Islam haters use is something that has been done endlessly.... but only since modern times!!!!

Christians fought the crusades against Muslims and wrote many attacks against Islam, such as the attacks that came from Thomas Aquinas.... but to my knowledge no one prior to 1900 said anything about the marriage to Aisha because nobody cared.... it is ridiculous to attack someone who lived 1,400 years ago because they did not conform to modern standards

 

[Dualke]

wallahi this makes me mad that the marriage to Aisha would even be a debate. nothing rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did was wrong.... the marriage to Aisha as a topic Islam haters use is something that has been done endlessly.... but only since modern times!!!!

Christians fought the crusades against Muslims and wrote many attacks against Islam, such as the attacks that came from Thomas Aquinas.... but to my knowledge no one prior to 1900 said anything about the marriage to Aisha because nobody cared.... it is ridiculous to attack someone who lived 1,400 years ago because they did not conform to modern standards

This is a moot point, I would not have expected you of all people to use moral relativist arguments.

 

[Omar del Sur]

This is a moot point, I would not have expected you of all people to use moral relativist arguments.

I'm not moral relativist, it's the modern conception of morality wherein things like zina and onlyfans are alleged human rights, it is this conception which is wrong... the Islamic conception is what is correct

 

[Dualke]

I'm not moral relativist, it's the modern conception of morality wherein things like zina and onlyfans are alleged human rights, it is this conception which is wrong... the Islamic conception is what is correct

This, it's just that when a lot of people say something along the lines of "it was a different time period" they implicitly nudge towards the notion that modernity is correct.

 

[Omar del Sur]

This, it's just that when a lot of people say something along the lines of "it was a different time period" they implicitly nudge towards the notion that modernity is correct.

wallahi I think what the actual meaning of words are is indicated by what is meant... by the intention of the speaker....

if a word means one thing in one language and the same word has another meaning in a different language.... the definition that is the correct one to use is the meaning that was intended by the speaker...

my meaning is that it is silly to expect people from the past to adhere to recently made up norms.... but not that these norms are superior, my view of history is that each era is worse than the one that proceeds it

 

[Omar del Sur]

the moral relativist version of what I was saying is that people in the past didn't know better like we supposedly do, they were not enlightened like we today supposedly are... but that view of history is completely wrong, society is moving more in the direction of moral degradation and the best generations were the early generations of Muslims wallahi

 

[Internet Nomad]

To begin with, there is a minority opinion that Aisha was 19 years old at the age of marriage. I'm not sure about the legitimacy of this, but I also don't want to dismiss it. Arabs didn't keep good records of birthdates back then. They usually guess a person's age based on life events that occurred around that time.

In any case, my point of view is the commonly held one. Which has only recently become a point of contention in the last 50 years or so.

(I'll come back to this.)


Let us begin with the biological reality of the time. 1400 years ago, the average lifespan was around 30 years. Add to that the early Muslims' persecution, war, infant morality, and famine. In order for a society to reproduce, the age at which one could be considered an adult had to be much lower. It is not feasible for them to raise the consent age to 18 because by the time the average person is 18, they would be halfway through their life.

To be considered fit for marriage in Islam, a person must be both physically and mentally fit. Take note that there is no set age of consent, so it is up to an Islamic ruler to decide. I believe that because we live in privileged times, we mature at a much slower rate, and that the age of consent should be where it is.

Aisha was also recommended by her father and the angel Gabriel (which means Allah(SWT) ordered it because angels cannot act on their own volition).

Here are the average ages of women Mohammed(SAW) married.
The average age is 25. This trend does not show a man who has a sick pervasion of children. Many of these women were widows, elderly, or otherwise destitute and in need of his aide.

• Khadijah’s Median Age = 40 years
• Sawdah’s Approximate Age = 40 years.
• Aisha’s Median Age = 9 years and 3 months.
• Hafsah’s Median Age = 19 years and 6 months.
• Zaynab bint Khuzayma’s Median Age = 28 years and 4 months.
• Hind’s Median Age = 28 years and 6 months.
• Zaynab bint Jahsh’s Median Age = 37 years and 2 months.
• Juwayriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.
• Safiyah’s Age = 16 years and 6 months.
• Ramlah’s Median Age = 34 years and 7 months.
• Maymunah’s Median Age = 35 years and 2 months.
• Mulaykah’s Approximate Age = 13 years.
• Asma’s Maximum Age = 20 years.
• Amrah’s Approximate Age = 15 years.

1. Total Years = 343 years and 10 months.
2. Mean Age of Muhammad’s Brides = 24.56 years

Back to my earlier point... this has only been a contentious issue in the last 50 years. Because it was the norm to marry young. It was done by almost everyone. I don't believe the majority of people back then were pedo’s because that would be an absurd assumption. So why do we remove all context when discussing Aisha's marriage?

Some may argue that Muhammad (SAW) was not meant to be an example for all humanity throughout history. Yes, he is... He married Aisha after they determined that she was mentally fit and healthy. This translates to the age of consent being fluid for the nation's condition. We live in luxury, so it's high, but in a war-torn country, it could be lowered. I am not an Islamic legislator, as you may be aware. So i cant say where it should be at any given time.

She was very intelligent and wrote many books about her life and Muhammad (saw) people parse through all of her works and find no evidence of abuse in her writings.

In Conclusion, There is a lot of context when added to the story make the marriage look ordinary however if we were just to rip it from its time and judge it with our modern standards it would look bad.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Ngl i cant even get into the video without cringing. I don't understand why Muslims make it their goal to argue such topic when it is so easy for christians to take low hanging insults at us. There are much more productive conversations to be held.

 

[Dualke]

Ngl i cant even get into the video without cringing. I don't understand why Muslims make it their goal to argue such topic when it is so easy for christians to take low hanging insults at us. There are much more productive conversations to be held.

Have you not listened to the openings? The Christian is relying on a very liberal understanding of the bible.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Have you not listened to the openings? The Christian is relying on a very liberal understanding of the bible.

I cringe at watching at many islamic apologetic speakers on sensitive topic like this because after a couple years of apologetic they become hyper confident in their talking points and kinda unaware of the average gaal listening.

However when they are talking about theology they pop off.

 

[Dualke]

I cringe at watching at many islamic apologetic speakers on sensitive topic like this because after a couple years of apologetic they become hyper confident in their talking points and kinda unaware of the average gaal listening.

However when they are talking about theology they pop off.

DH isn't an apologetic

 

[niggaibnh]

Hasn’t been debates on the scholars ?
Some say 19 years old due to ashia (RA) older sister age

 

[niggaibnh]

Ngl i cant even get into the video without cringing. I don't understand why Muslims make it their goal to argue such topic when it is so easy for christians to take low hanging insults at us. There are much more productive conversations to be held.

“
Here are the average ages of women Mohammed(SAW) married.
The average age is 25. This trend does not show a man who has a sick pervasion of children. Many of these women were widows, elderly, or otherwise destitute and in need of his aide.

• Khadijah’s Median Age = 40 years
• Sawdah’s Approximate Age = 40 years.
• Aisha’s Median Age = 9 years and 3 months.
• Hafsah’s Median Age = 19 years and 6 months.
• Zaynab bint Khuzayma’s Median Age = 28 years and 4 months.
• Hind’s Median Age = 28 years and 6 months.
• Zaynab bint Jahsh’s Median Age = 37 years and 2 months.
• Juwayriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.
• Safiyah’s Age = 16 years and 6 months.
• Ramlah’s Median Age = 34 years and 7 months.
• Maymunah’s Median Age = 35 years and 2 months.
• Mulaykah’s Approximate Age = 13 years.
• Asma’s Maximum Age = 20 years.
• Amrah’s Approximate Age = 15 years.“

prophet married 12 wives
Some of the women’s you’ve mentioned was companion of the prophet Saw

 

[Internet Nomad]

“
Here are the average ages of women Mohammed(SAW) married.
The average age is 25. This trend does not show a man who has a sick pervasion of children. Many of these women were widows, elderly, or otherwise destitute and in need of his aide.

• Khadijah’s Median Age = 40 years
• Sawdah’s Approximate Age = 40 years.
• Aisha’s Median Age = 9 years and 3 months.
• Hafsah’s Median Age = 19 years and 6 months.
• Zaynab bint Khuzayma’s Median Age = 28 years and 4 months.
• Hind’s Median Age = 28 years and 6 months.
• Zaynab bint Jahsh’s Median Age = 37 years and 2 months.
• Juwayriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.
• Safiyah’s Age = 16 years and 6 months.
• Ramlah’s Median Age = 34 years and 7 months.
• Maymunah’s Median Age = 35 years and 2 months.
• Mulaykah’s Approximate Age = 13 years.
• Asma’s Maximum Age = 20 years.
• Amrah’s Approximate Age = 15 years.“

prophet married 12 wives
Some of the women’s you’ve mentioned was companion of the prophet Saw

My bad the site i got them from produced faulty info. I should've of double checked them especially when talking about matters of faith.

 

[Gacmeey]

It’s not the age that matters rather it’s the level of physical and mental maturity a person has that determines if a person is of marriageable age

 

[Omar del Sur]

Hasn’t been debates on the scholars ?
Some say 19 years old due to ashia (RA) older sister age

the thing I want to mention is that it is very important that this line is rejected... this line of thought that says "no, Aisha was 18" or "Aisha was 19"....

a very serious problem is- this casts aspersion on Saheeh Al-Bukhari.... Saheeh Al-Bukhari is the most authentic book after the Quran itself.... I understand a lot of people today will try to go for the "Aisha was 18" type explanations... but the issue is this argument comes at the cost of undermining Saheeh Al-Bukhari.... Saheeh Al-Bukhari is probably the most important hadith book there is... as well as the most authentic.... so we should defend Saheeh Al-Bukhari and we should have confidence in Saheeh Al-Bukhari... the reality is there was nothing wrong with the marriage to Aisha... it is only recent modern false understanding that makes people think there was something wrong with it, throughout most of history it was perfectly normal to people to marry at a younger age

 

[Omar del Sur]

another thing is... from the technical legal standpoint... Islamically it is legal to marry and consummate marriage after puberty.... I'm not advocating people to marry quite that young but the reality is... people should marry young.... it is the modern people who have it wrong... people are marrying much older than they did historically and the reality is that what this leads to is zina... it leads to a lot of zina in the society because young people do not get married... I think that we should be adults and understand that yes people marrying young is this shocking thing to decadent modern people but in reality it helps to safeguard the society against zina... it is the modern decadance of people that leads them to think it is the worst thing in the world that a young person get married but that surgically mutilating their privates and giving them opposite sex hormones is perfectly normal and a human right...

 

[niggaibnh]

the thing I want to mention is that it is very important that this line is rejected... this line of thought that says "no, Aisha was 18" or "Aisha was 19"....

a very serious problem is- this casts aspersion on Saheeh Al-Bukhari.... Saheeh Al-Bukhari is the most authentic book after the Quran itself.... I understand a lot of people today will try to go for the "Aisha was 18" type explanations... but the issue is this argument comes at the cost of undermining Saheeh Al-Bukhari.... Saheeh Al-Bukhari is probably the most important hadith book there is... as well as the most authentic.... so we should defend Saheeh Al-Bukhari and we should have confidence in Saheeh Al-Bukhari... the reality is there was nothing wrong with the marriage to Aisha... it is only recent modern false understanding that makes people think there was something wrong with it, throughout most of history it was perfectly normal to people to marry at a younger age

Yes but I’ve also heard the was some weak/wrong Hadiths saheeh al Bukhai am I wrong ? Or it’s false ?

 

[Omar del Sur]

Yes but I’ve also heard the was some weak/wrong Hadiths saheeh al Bukhai am I wrong ? Or it’s false ?

I do think it may be possible that there are a few but I don't think the hadith talking about the age of Aisha are weak. if there really is evidence they are and it's been confirmed by hadith scholars, I'm willing to listen but as far as I'm aware the hadith about this are not weak.

what I would challenge people to do if they think the hadith on this are weak is to show classical commentaries on Saheeh Al-Bukhari where the hadith is said to be weak.

Personally I don't think anything about the age of Aisha was considered controversial until recent, modern times. If people are claiming the "Aisha was 19" thing... were there any scholars saying this before 1900?

I knew an older AA guy at a building where I used to work. He told me how his father married his mother when she was like 11. I know this is shocking to people's modern way of looking at things but until recently in history this was just considered normal.