Controversial set of questions

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He does. He's an insane, vindictive, irrational, 7th century desert warlord. You think too highly of him when you have no reason to.
You're wrong. Allah has never fought a war in his life, so I don't know how he can be a warlord exactly. I have challenged you to a formal debate, but you would not take me up on it. Could this be due to fright on your part?
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
so I don't know he can be a warlord exactly.
You are dense. Allah is Muhammad. Muhammad told you everything you know about Allah and according to Muhammad, Allah wanted him to have as many wives as he needed, murder people that pissed him off, lust after his adopted son's wife and marry her etc. Allah did very convenient things for Muhammad. It's almost as if Muhammad created Allah as his puppet.
 
You are dense. Allah is Muhammad. Muhammad told you everything you know about Allah and according to Muhammad, Allah wanted him to have as many wives as he needed, murder people that pissed him off, lust after his adopted son's wife and marry her etc. Allah did very convenient things for Muhammad. It's almost as if Muhammad created Allah as his puppet.
How can Allah have been invented by Muhammad (PBUH) when the mushrikun worshipped Allah too. The prophet's father was called Abdullah, meaning servant of Allah. Your arguments are not very well informed ina adeer
 
@ArchBishopofAtheism
Do you believe in a higher power? Even though it says athiesm in your name it's worth asking. I think its wrong to reject the very likely existence of higher power. Religion is another thing but when I was a practicing Muslim I would rationalise my doubts by pascals wager, even though a lot doesn't make sense to me the benefit of the doubt works in your favour.
:manny:
Also you would've been a great wahabi wadaad because ur one staunch athiest :chrisfreshhah:
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
@ArchBishopofAtheism
Do you believe in a higher power? Even though it says athiesm in your name it's worth asking. I think its wrong to reject the very likely existence of higher power. Religion is another thing but when I was a practicing Muslim I would rationalise my doubts by pascals wager, even though a lot doesn't make sense to me the benefit of the doubt works in your favour.
:manny:
Also you would've been a great wahabi wadaad because ur one staunch athiest :chrisfreshhah:
I'm open to the idea of a higher power but it's not the Islamic god or the 40 year old virgin Jew who got executed for saying some dumb shit. I've ruled this out because there's too much evidence that it's not true. I can safely cross that out. If there is a higher power, he wouldn't demand you do some arbitrary movements and say things in Arabic.

Think about it: why would a god that created the universe care so much about this particular species on a planet that occupies 0% of the universe? Might it be that a member of that species on this planet came up with god?

So in conclusion, I'm comfortable with the possibility that a god exists and I'm positive there's no reason a logical god would care what this group of animals do. Also, I believe in the rule of law and common decency so there's no reason for me to be punished. I don't kill, rape, rob, manipulate or do anything else that is criminal.
 
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I'm open to the idea of a higher power but it's not the Islamic god or the 40 year old virgin Jew who got executed for saying some dumb shit. I've ruled this out because there's too much evidence that it's not true. I can safely cross that out. If there is a higher power, he wouldn't demand you do some arbitrary movements and say things in Arabic.

Think about it: why would a god that created the universe care so much about this particular species on a planet that occupies 0% of the universe? Might it be that a member of that species on this planet came up with god?

So in conclusion, I'm comfortable with the possibility that a god exists and I'm positive there's no reason a logical god would care what this group of animals do. Also, I believe in the rule of law and common decency so there's no reason for me to be punished. I don't kill, rape, rob, manipulate or do anything else that is criminal.
Have you studied islam extensively. That's what I'm doing now, planning to read the quran thoroughly in my own time as that's the only '100% unadulterated evidence'.Also if you're content with living the way your living now why are you so vocally against islam? Have you come out to your parents? Are you spiritual In any sense or are you dead inside and pursue a nihilistic life ?
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
Have you studied islam extensively.
I know enough to conclude that it's 100% not true. I'm not in doubt. The Quran says the sun sets in a muddy spring and that Dul Qarnayn reached the end of the world and built a wall to confine gog and magog. Muslims will have you believe that god means something other than what he's saying, which is preposterous and absurd.
 
I know enough to conclude that it's 100% not true. I'm not in doubt. The Quran says the sun sets in a muddy spring and that Dul Qarnayn reached the end of the world and built a wall to confine gog and magog. Muslims will have you believe that god means something other than what he's saying, which is preposterous and absurd.
So the only concrete evidence you'll take is if something supernatural happens before your eyes. Its a tough predicament because God has created us with enough intellect to question and think about what's presented to us. It takes a leap of faith to believe in islam. But I'm hardly knowledgeable in islam and I've only seen snippets so I'll continue second guessing myself until I thoroughly read the quran.
 
After some deep study of Islam over a good week or so I've come to the conclusion that it's the right path. The nihilistic pleasure seeking lifestyle wasn't for me and I have a grave spiritual void. As someone that barely understood islam, I dismissively judged it through a 21st century liberal lens . So I did some studying, I have only read a very small portion of the quran but I realised quickly that my own arrogant interpretation was one dimensional. So I began researching the interpretations of past scholars (Tafsir) and this was really eye opening. There is a plethora of understanding and context that I never saw first. No one can claim mastery of Islam, so it's only right that it is studied In depth before coming to the conclusion that it's a false religion. (Salafi/wahabism is still the cancer of Islam and the arab washing of somali culture should be reversed)
 
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So the only concrete evidence you'll take is if something supernatural happens before your eyes. Its a tough predicament because God has created us with enough intellect to question and think about what's presented to us. It takes a leap of faith to believe in islam. But I'm hardly knowledgeable in islam and I've only seen snippets so I'll continue second guessing myself until I thoroughly read the quran.
I highly disagree, a leap a faith is the belief that everything you see around you has come about courtesy of a single atom that exploded some 16 billion years ago which created order out of chaos.

We are not even capable of understanding the complex human brain in depth, yet they shamefully attribute all the marvels and complexities around us to some random unintelligent/unconscious random cosmic accident, yet ironically even with all our collective conscious brain power combined we cannot create a single fly from physical organic materials never mind from nothing

If your going to become a student of the Quran I recommend you go through Nouman Ali Khan as a foundation as opposed to going directly towards Tafsir Ibn Kathir or other foreign/classical scholars, I say this as someone that has gone through all of it

Why? because the person that has gone through the same western educational institutions like yourself that has been living in a similar environment as you, also thinks in similar patterns as yourself and is therefore able to relate to you in the best way possible with regards to bringing the tafseer's of the ayah alive in contemporary times.

Take a look at his divine speech lectures were he attempts to bring the linguistic miracles of the quran to an English speaking audience.
 

shan-futo-le

The last suugo bender

Had the same confusion between qadr and free will too , take a look at this video , it settles my queries.

If by inherent violence you mean defending oneself then ... yes its inherent violence.

Also our deen has been perfected for us indeed, however the human isn't perfect , u'll find some of the SJW muslims saying the qur'an says nothing evidently bad about homosexuality , whereas the extremists will say that the example of sodom and the punishment given to the residents of sodom is enough evidence exterminate eery gay or gay seeming person who walks the earth.

“As for those in whose hearts is perversity, they follow the allegorical verses, seeking to mislead and seeking to give (their own) interpretation. None know their (i.e., allegorical verses') interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge…” (3:7)

Allah uses clear cut verses int eh our;an to lay down the laws and morals , other times he uses Alegorical verses with multiple meanings , the perverse soul (extremists being a perfect example) will go with the interpretation that suits their political and worldly goal , rather than guidance to live by.
here is an essay that talks about this in detail using examples from the qur'an itself.

http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/allegories_in_the_quran_(P1384).html


This brings me to your last point , answer being simply no , firstly there were 100's of prophets sent since adam till Muhammed peace be upon both , sent to different nations Allah says: And for every Ummah (a community or a nation), there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Qur'ân 10:47). Alas people who have not heard the message are distinguishable from those people who REFUSED the message , so why on earth would they be punished if allah said each nation will be judged accordingly , he is all wise all encompassing , you don't need to worry , as for righteous non-muslim believers Allah says Among the people of the Book there are some who believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before Allah. They do not sell Allah’s Signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And Allah is swift at reckoning. (Surah Al ‘Imran, 199) , Here Allah recognises that yes there some among the people of the book , jews and christians who are righteous and upright , they will have there reward with there lord and shan't worry. As for the Saudi's corruption and evil is still corruption and evil muslim or not , each soul will be taken care of according to there deeds.

Assuming about Allah without trying to get to know him and understand his message is so sad in my opinion , its sad because here you believe his existence however you failed to recognise his names (also his characteristics) some being , the most wise , the most merciful , the most just in judgement the most compassionate , how can such a god over look the poor 'farmer' or eskimo or tribe in the amazon rainforest for their ignorance and punish them and let the corrupt Saudi off. Try getting to know your creator before accusing him of injustice and cruelty.

Quick fact: Did you know that Buddhism is believed to be the skewed religion of the prophet Dhul Kifl , (this is mostly backed by Ahmadiyyah muslims) i don't think its correct but its food for thought , we know that christianity has been skewed from its essential worshipping of one god , who knows how many dead or alive religions that were once the initial teaching of a messenger sent to a nation of the past. A recent study found that the many tribes of Australian aborigines all (without exception) believe in a one supreme power , who is the first cause of creation, this is an interesting study because, the Australian continent is not only unique in having been completely broken off from the rest of the world, it is also unique in containing within it hundreds of social islands, each comprising tribes that remained entirely isolated from each other. One can only wonder if they (tribes) received a messenger at some point in time (i'm certain of it!).
ps: this is all muddled up i know its 5am here and i;m sleepy but i really felt the need to defend my deen in this one because you were pulling accusations from thin air imo. :icon lol:
also please ask more if you have any , this is a learning process for me too , goodluck
 
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Hybrid

Death Awaits You
After some deep study of Islam over a good week or so I've come to the conclusion that it's the right path. The nihilistic pleasure seeking lifestyle wasn't for me and I have a grave spiritual void. As someone that barely understood islam, I dismissively judged it through a 21st century liberal lens . So I did some studying, I have only read a very small portion of the quran but I realised quickly that my own arrogant interpretation was one dimensional. So I began researching the interpretations of past scholars (Tafsir) and this was really eye opening. There is a plethora of understanding and context that I never saw first. No one can claim mastery of Islam, so it's only right that it is studied In depth before coming to the conclusion that it's a false religion. (Salafi/wahabism is still the cancer of Islam and the arab washing of somali culture should be reversed)
you made a good decision. be liberal and stay away from wahhabi ideology. there are lots of research indicating that religious people are more happier than non-believers and it's true because religion gives you a sense of purpose and serves as a resource for copying with negative life experiences. I'm doing more research about Buddhism, spirituality and positive thinking to create my own happiness.
 
One question I have is that Islam believes that all humans have been given the message of Allah. In my opinion that was only the known world if the Middle East, Asia and the Caucases. What about Abos, Papuans, Natuve Americans and other isolated people would they go to hell for not being a Muslim since they don't know anything about Islam?
People who never heard About islam Will not go to hell directly. They will be tested in the after life.
 
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