Controversial set of questions

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As an agnostic person, I have so many questions that I'd like to put forward to Muslims on this site. Hopefully we can learn something from this discussion. I have so many causes of doubt in islam but at the same time I still believe in one God, I'll try to touch on them all.

1) If Allah has said that he has perfected this religion, why is there so many different interpretations. Isn't it meant to be a clear cut divine answer which can be applied in the 21st , surely God woudve forseen this (it a test is not a sufficient answer for me)
2) qadr and free will seem to contradict, generally speaking it's this confusion again. If God says that some hearts are Black and with doubt, there's no saving them (something along those lines) then where's the free will. there's also multiple contradictions in the quran which is too lengthy to delve in to.
3) I have seen many Muslim speakers on YouTube state that the religion shouldn't be sugar coated, it's not a pacifist religion. I understand when you put it into the context the prophet Muhammed was initially abused but he then went on to conquer other lands. There's inherent violence and it's evident with some verses of the quran.
4) what happens to all the good righteous men that follows Christianity/Buddhism. Is he sentenced to hell for committing shirk. I know that for Muslims they can be sent to hell momentarily and then taken to jannah does that apply to other righteous people or are they condemned to hell for eternity. To me it doesn't feel 'good' what is morality/goodness ? A strict set of instructions that must be robotically followed. The fact that there's a corrupt evil Saudi that potentially will go heaven and a miskeen phillipino Christian farmer will be dammed in hell doesn't sit right with me.
 
One question I have is that Islam believes that all humans have been given the message of Allah. In my opinion that was only the known world if the Middle East, Asia and the Caucases. What about Abos, Papuans, Natuve Americans and other isolated people would they go to hell for not being a Muslim since they don't know anything about Islam?
 
Sometimes I would question myself if I'm agnostic but I think it's only because I was raised not really learning about the religion so I'm pretty clueless, because of that I really don't see myself having a strong connection with the religion however I have no doubt in my mind there's a higher being. The idea that we just came from nothing and when we die nothing happens scares me more. The way I see religion is that god would make the appropriate ruling on how you live your life. I think Allah would be understanding towards those who were good non Muslims and never even heard of Islam as for everything else the way I see is there just obstacles put in place to doubt our beliefs. People say how come this isn't in the bible or Quran but just because it's not in there doesn't exclude everything else. All the interpretation could be another way to give us free will on what we want to chose or follow I suppose. However like I said earlier I'm pretty clueless so I could be wrong etc :manny:
 
One question I have is that Islam believes that all humans have been given the message of Allah. In my opinion that was only the known world if the Middle East, Asia and the Caucases. What about Abos, Papuans, Natuve Americans and other isolated people would they go to hell for not being a Muslim since they don't know anything about Islam?
They will be judged separately from what I recall and won't go directly to hell, not entirely sure though.
 

Nightline Kid

Imagine still using this shithole of a website.
They will be judged separately from what I recall and won't go directly to hell, not entirely sure though.
One question I have is that Islam believes that all humans have been given the message of Allah. In my opinion that was only the known world if the Middle East, Asia and the Caucases. What about Abos, Papuans, Natuve Americans and other isolated people would they go to hell for not being a Muslim since they don't know anything about Islam?
Screencapping this post from another thread

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Screencapping this post from another thread

View attachment 27582
That's a bogus hadith. Why would Allah test people who've never heard of Islam more severely than Muslims. It is easier to pray and fast than it is to jump into a fire. You make it sound like it's a cakewalk. A raging fire spewing flames and heat is something which nobody would go near. Have you ever seen a burning building? It looks scary even fifty yards from it. Such a test is unfair and immoral as nobody would pass it, unless you have a death wish. Allah does not set impossible trials.

Secondly, it contradicts the Quran which says Allah sent a messenger to every people, so it cannot be that the 500 year interval between Jesus and Muhammad (PBUH) had no messengers.

Thirdly, suicide is a sin, so telling someone to burn themselves contradicts the Quran.

Hadiths which contradict Allah's book or basic logic are forgeries and should be thrown out.
 
My questions have been swept under the carpet nacalaa, can someone provide a thought provoking rebuttal. I feel like Muslims on this site have had enough of gaalos lol.
 
As an agnostic person, I have so many questions that I'd like to put forward to Muslims on this site. Hopefully we can learn something from this discussion. I have so many causes of doubt in islam but at the same time I still believe in one God, I'll try to touch on them all.
Your problems are not intellectual at all but at the core it's a spiritual disease deep within you that has it's roots in arrogance, vanity, narcissism and pride.



1) If Allah has said that he has perfected this religion, why is there so many different interpretations. Isn't it meant to be a clear cut divine answer which can be applied in the 21st , surely God woudve forseen this (it a test is not a sufficient answer for me)
Why are there so many conflicting researches, theories, conclusions within the fields science itself as well as all other fields ? I can pick up a research study that tells me "GMO" foods are good for me and another that tells me it causes cancer/infertility.

Each of these bring forth their own evidences, many of them are sponsored by conglomerate industries that want favourable studies so they could profit, a company like Monsanto sets aside 100 million on studies promoting their line of toxic GMO products as do many other industries.

The humans whims/desires and conflict of interests knows no bounds and this is no different when it comes to religious matters, Allah states in the Quran the reason they differed is out of an urge "dominate one another" which is something that happens outside the realms of religion, it's a common human trait to try to control one another, we see this with empires/imperialists/colonialists and even to a lesser extend in family homes.

However this is not to be confused with minor differences which even the companions had in which both sides are right, there is no single fixed way towards the straight path! intentions is what really matters here, we are complex beings that see and interpret things differently, we are not robotic clones that act/think the same way.

2) qadr and free will seem to contradict, generally speaking it's this confusion again. If God says that some hearts are Black and with doubt, there's no saving them (something along those lines) then where's the free will. there's also multiple contradictions in the quran which is too lengthy to delve in to.
The position of virtually all scientific materialists (Atheists) is that there is no free will or choice and that all our actions/behaviours etc. are determined based on the reactions of our atoms and molecules which are hardwired and driven by biological evolution, the atoms and molecules can never have their own independent free-will or choice, it's absurd to belief so.

I have posted a thread on here before on this topic quoting many of these scientific materialists as well as many expert neurologists/brain surgeons that are in unison agreement etc. This why my opening statement was that your problem is not 'intellectual' because if it was you would see this contradiction.

You see the toughest thing for a human to overcome is addiction, it requires first the right intentions, then the necessary discipline and will power to power through, it's the same concept with those becoming wealthy, they had the intentions then went out and worked for it.

Nothing in life comes to you without those basic ingredients of (sincere intentions) followed through by the necessary (actions) that will take you to your desired goal.

This concept is even easier in Islam, because you just have to sincerely want the guidance alone (make the intention) and it will come to you without you having to do any kinds of actions as is the case with everything else, this is why you see so many reverts embrace Islam without having ever done any actions before and when you listen to their stories the underlying theme was they made the intention in their heart first! This is why I see your problems are spiritual not intellectual.

Those dead hearts or black hearts described in the Quran are describing those that don't even have an inkling desire for guidance, those that are content upon the worst forms of corruption/evil/disbelief despite being in the company of the Prophet.

The contradictions you speak about are all in your head, as a scientific materialists you should never talk about the topics of free-will or free-choice because the evolutionary world view is that our molecules and atoms are determined.


3) I have seen many Muslim speakers on YouTube state that the religion shouldn't be sugar coated, it's not a pacifist religion. I understand when you put it into the context the prophet Muhammed was initially abused but he then went on to conquer other lands. There's inherent violence and it's evident with some verses of the quran.
In the 23 years of Prophet-hood, 13 of those years were spent in mecca as a pacifists with no violence or retaliatory self-defence violence despite the perpetual violence against them from the pagans.

There is not a single group of people/nation/civilisation that has ever done this, it was the first in recorded history, every nation or people have the rights to self defence which had been forbidden during that period of time.

It's interesting that you as a Diaspora kid raise the issue of violence when the very civilisation your so fond off, whose culture/religion you have embraced blindly are the most violent people this earth has ever seen and have killed more people then everyone combined, again the hypocrisy here is yet again exposing your issue to not be intellectual or moral at all.



4) what happens to all the good righteous men that follows Christianity/Buddhism. Is he sentenced to hell for committing shirk. I know that for Muslims they can be sent to hell momentarily and then taken to jannah does that apply to other righteous people or are they condemned to hell for eternity. To me it doesn't feel 'good' what is morality/goodness ? A strict set of instructions that must be robotically followed. The fact that there's a corrupt evil Saudi that potentially will go heaven and a miskeen phillipino Christian farmer will be dammed in hell doesn't sit right with me.

This is the typical argument about a peasant poor farmer somewhere in the world and his 'supposed' suffering, the people who pose these questions are the same people that don't give a shit about them in their daily life and in fact look down upon them regularly.

The same people that don't pay any kind of charity to them and unwilling to sacrifice anything to help them out are the same ones that point this out as a means of their disbelief (spiritual disease), like the famous philosopher said " I was going to ask God why he allows suffering/hardship/injustice to happen but then I was afraid he would ask me the same question"
 
Your problems are not intellectual at all but at the core it's a spiritual disease deep within you that has it's roots in arrogance, vanity, narcissism and pride.





Why are there so many conflicting researches, theories, conclusions within the fields science itself as well as all other fields ? I can pick up a research study that tells me "GMO" foods are good for me and another that tells me it causes cancer/infertility.

Each of these bring forth their own evidences, many of them are sponsored by conglomerate industries that want favourable studies so they could profit, a company like Monsanto sets aside 100 million on studies promoting their line of toxic GMO products as do many other industries.

The humans whims/desires and conflict of interests knows no bounds and this is no different when it comes to religious matters, Allah states in the Quran the reason they differed is out of an urge "dominate one another" which is something that happens outside the realms of religion, it's a common human trait to try to control one another, we see this with empires/imperialists/colonialists and even to a lesser extend in family homes.

However this is not to be confused with minor differences which even the companions had in which both sides are right, there is no single fixed way towards the straight path! intentions is what really matters here, we are complex beings that see and interpret things differently, we are not robotic clones that act/think the same way.



The position of virtually all scientific materialists (Atheists) is that there is no free will or choice and that all our actions/behaviours etc. are determined based on the reactions of our atoms and molecules which are hardwired and driven by biological evolution, the atoms and molecules can never have their own independent free-will or choice, it's absurd to belief so.

I have posted a thread on here before on this topic quoting many of these scientific materialists as well as many expert neurologists/brain surgeons that are in unison agreement etc. This why my opening statement was that your problem is not 'intellectual' because if it was you would see this contradiction.

You see the toughest thing for a human to overcome is addiction, it requires first the right intentions, then the necessary discipline and will power to power through, it's the same concept with those becoming wealthy, they had the intentions then went out and worked for it.

Nothing in life comes to you without those basic ingredients of (sincere intentions) followed through by the necessary (actions) that will take you to your desired goal.

This concept is even easier in Islam, because you just have to sincerely want the guidance alone (make the intention) and it will come to you without you having to do any kinds of actions as is the case with everything else, this is why you see so many reverts embrace Islam without having ever done any actions before and when you listen to their stories the underlying theme was they made the intention in their heart first! This is why I see your problems are spiritual not intellectual.

Those dead hearts or black hearts described in the Quran are describing those that don't even have an inkling desire for guidance, those that are content upon the worst forms of corruption/evil/disbelief despite being in the company of the Prophet.

The contradictions you speak about are all in your head, as a scientific materialists you should never talk about the topics of free-will or free-choice because the evolutionary world view is that our molecules and atoms are determined.




In the 23 years of Prophet-hood, 13 of those years were spent in mecca as a pacifists with no violence or retaliatory self-defence violence despite the perpetual violence against them from the pagans.

There is not a single group of people/nation/civilisation that has ever done this, it was the first in recorded history, every nation or people have the rights to self defence which had been forbidden during that period of time.

It's interesting that you as a Diaspora kid raise the issue of violence when the very civilisation your so fond off, whose culture/religion you have embraced blindly are the most violent people this earth has ever seen and have killed more people then everyone combined, again the hypocrisy here is yet again exposing your issue to not be intellectual or moral at all.






This is the typical argument about a peasant poor farmer somewhere in the world and his 'supposed' suffering, the people who pose these questions are the same people that don't give a shit about them in their daily life and in fact look down upon them regularly.

The same people that don't pay any kind of charity to them and unwilling to sacrifice anything to help them out are the same ones that point this out as a means of their disbelief (spiritual disease), like the famous philosopher said " I was going to ask God why he allows suffering/hardship/injustice to happen but then I was afraid he would ask me the same question"
Your problems are not intellectual at all but at the core it's a spiritual disease deep within you that has it's roots in arrogance, vanity, narcissism and pride.





Why are there so many conflicting researches, theories, conclusions within the fields science itself as well as all other fields ? I can pick up a research study that tells me "GMO" foods are good for me and another that tells me it causes cancer/infertility.

Each of these bring forth their own evidences, many of them are sponsored by conglomerate industries that want favourable studies so they could profit, a company like Monsanto sets aside 100 million on studies promoting their line of toxic GMO products as do many other industries.

The humans whims/desires and conflict of interests knows no bounds and this is no different when it comes to religious matters, Allah states in the Quran the reason they differed is out of an urge "dominate one another" which is something that happens outside the realms of religion, it's a common human trait to try to control one another, we see this with empires/imperialists/colonialists and even to a lesser extend in family homes.

However this is not to be confused with minor differences which even the companions had in which both sides are right, there is no single fixed way towards the straight path! intentions is what really matters here, we are complex beings that see and interpret things differently, we are not robotic clones that act/think the same way.



The position of virtually all scientific materialists (Atheists) is that there is no free will or choice and that all our actions/behaviours etc. are determined based on the reactions of our atoms and molecules which are hardwired and driven by biological evolution, the atoms and molecules can never have their own independent free-will or choice, it's absurd to belief so.

I have posted a thread on here before on this topic quoting many of these scientific materialists as well as many expert neurologists/brain surgeons that are in unison agreement etc. This why my opening statement was that your problem is not 'intellectual' because if it was you would see this contradiction.

You see the toughest thing for a human to overcome is addiction, it requires first the right intentions, then the necessary discipline and will power to power through, it's the same concept with those becoming wealthy, they had the intentions then went out and worked for it.

Nothing in life comes to you without those basic ingredients of (sincere intentions) followed through by the necessary (actions) that will take you to your desired goal.

This concept is even easier in Islam, because you just have to sincerely want the guidance alone (make the intention) and it will come to you without you having to do any kinds of actions as is the case with everything else, this is why you see so many reverts embrace Islam without having ever done any actions before and when you listen to their stories the underlying theme was they made the intention in their heart first! This is why I see your problems are spiritual not intellectual.

Those dead hearts or black hearts described in the Quran are describing those that don't even have an inkling desire for guidance, those that are content upon the worst forms of corruption/evil/disbelief despite being in the company of the Prophet.

The contradictions you speak about are all in your head, as a scientific materialists you should never talk about the topics of free-will or free-choice because the evolutionary world view is that our molecules and atoms are determined.




In the 23 years of Prophet-hood, 13 of those years were spent in mecca as a pacifists with no violence or retaliatory self-defence violence despite the perpetual violence against them from the pagans.

There is not a single group of people/nation/civilisation that has ever done this, it was the first in recorded history, every nation or people have the rights to self defence which had been forbidden during that period of time.

It's interesting that you as a Diaspora kid raise the issue of violence when the very civilisation your so fond off, whose culture/religion you have embraced blindly are the most violent people this earth has ever seen and have killed more people then everyone combined, again the hypocrisy here is yet again exposing your issue to not be intellectual or moral at all.






This is the typical argument about a peasant poor farmer somewhere in the world and his 'supposed' suffering, the people who pose these questions are the same people that don't give a shit about them in their daily life and in fact look down upon them regularly.

The same people that don't pay any kind of charity to them and unwilling to sacrifice anything to help them out are the same ones that point this out as a means of their disbelief (spiritual disease), like the famous philosopher said " I was going to ask God why he allows suffering/hardship/injustice to happen but then I was afraid he would ask me the same question"
Spiritual problems not intellectual problems hmm. I'll reflect on what you said and reply tonight.
 
@Inquisitive_
After much thought on my mental/spiritual state, there is a still a flicker of Iman within me but doubt still supersedes. I do believe that you assumed that I was the typical western cadaan athiest and most of the personal attack is you going off on a tangent. There's considerable diversion from the actual questions but there's small pockets of truth at some parts. (In other words ur full of horse shit saxiib) Is there a spiritual void in my life? Possibly, but I am neither apathetic nor wildly engaged. I need more time to evaluate/understand my life and Islam. Entertaining read though.
 
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@Inquisitive_
After much thought on my mental/spiritual state, there is a still a flicker of Iman within me but doubt still supersedes. I do believe that you assumed that I was the typical western cadaan athiest and most of the personal attack is you going off on a tangent. There's considerable diversion from the actual questions which you deemed to be intellectual dismissabal but there's small pockets of truth at some parts. Is there a spiritual void in my life? Possibly, but I am neither apathetic nor wildly engaged. I need more time to evaluate/understand my life and Islam. Interesting read though.
That flicker will go out if you don't take action immediately, the human being is more then just the material body, the body goes but the spirit/soul stays each has it's own needs in proportion/balance, if you don't feed the latter or ignore it you fall into doubts which will often lead to depressions and in extreme cases suicide which are essentially all spiritual diseases.

When Amy winehouse murdered herself even tough she was a millionaire and had everything she could possibly have in this world, the news broke on the same day that a women in Somalia walked 30 days with her child during the crazy famines "just to live" and she had nothing! this is the result of what a spiritual disease does to you and what the opposite of it does to you!

I recommend you to watch the following lecture by Nouman Ali Kahn, the video is grossly mislabelled in the title so he ignore that

he is breaking the down the famous ayah in surah Hijr were Allah describes the condition of the Muslims that are on "the edge of a cliff" in regards to their faith/spirituality, you will find that it deeply resonates with your condition, I urge you to listen to it.

 
That flicker will go out if you don't take action immediately, the human being is more then just the material body, the body goes but the spirit/soul stays each has it's own needs in proportion/balance, if you don't feed the latter or ignore it you fall into doubts which will often lead to depressions and in extreme cases suicide which are essentially all spiritual diseases.

When Amy winehouse murdered herself even tough she was a millionaire and had everything she could possibly have in this world, the news broke on the same day that a women in Somalia walked 30 days with her child during the crazy famines "just to live" and she had nothing! this is the result of what a spiritual disease does to you and what the opposite of it does to you!

I recommend you to watch the following lecture by Nouman Ali Kahn, the video is grossly mislabelled in the title so he ignore that

he is breaking the down the famous ayah in surah Hijr were Allah describes the condition of the Muslims that are on "the edge of a cliff" in regards to their faith/spirituality, you will find that it deeply resonates with your condition, I urge you to listen to it.

I'll watch the video and others alike in my search but it's hard to take what you say seriously if you actually believe sixir caused draught. You have lost a lot of credibility.
:farole:
 
I'll watch the video and others alike in my search but it's hard to take what you say seriously if you actually believe sixir caused draught. You have lost a lot of credibility.
:farole:
You wouldn't have come to that conclusion if you actually read the post in it's correct context rather then some commentary of some mindless lowlife treacherous buffoons that deliberately took it out of its context.

Droughts as with everything else only happens by the permission of Allah and only he knows the full wisdom's behind it and sees all the different perspectives that are hidden from us, we only see things from a narrow minded short-term perspective and never the big picture on what the future ramification are in a grand scheme of things.

We know from hadith literature that part of Allah's mercy is that we pay the price of some of our bad deeds in this world as a form of cleansing which often makes us stronger and builds better character while as a result being spared in the hereafter.

We also know when 3 things become common in a Muslim society with no one making active efforts to stop it (adultery, corruption, sixiir) collective punishment comes down upon us in various ways which includes famine, droughts, bad leadership etc. if you ever travelled around the world you would see this first hand how awfully bad we are especially in the central/northern regions.

Now when your spiritually dead or on the verge of spiritual coma entering the empty barren realms of scientific materialism none of this will make sense to you whatsoever so having this discussion is fruitless, there are bigger things to address her first.
 
I'll watch the video and others alike in my search but it's hard to take what you say seriously if you actually believe sixir caused draught. You have lost a lot of credibility.
:farole:
Nouman Khan is a moron. He left Islam in the past and then reconverted to Wahabbism. That's why this clown @Inquisitive_ is fellating him. I just hope he wiped his lips afterward. You can tell his IQ is below 60 because of his semiliterate posts. He can barely write a grammatically sound sentence, but he's bashing science. You know you're dealing with an imbecile when they start attacking science and claiming that famine is a punishment from God. Presumably that means Europeans are more Godly than Africans because they never suffer famine even though adultery, corruption, and "magic" (whatever that is) exist in the West. It never occurs to these medieval cretins that famine might be caused by inefficient agricultural policies.

Do yourself a favour, if you want to study Islam from a rational perspective, stay clear of Salafi-Wahabbi morons and seek out rational Islamic theologians.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
One question I have is that Islam believes that all humans have been given the message of Allah. In my opinion that was only the known world if the Middle East, Asia and the Caucases. What about Abos, Papuans, Natuve Americans and other isolated people would they go to hell for not being a Muslim since they don't know anything about Islam?
Did it ever cross your mind that an all-powerful creator wouldn't be this inept?
 
Droughts as with everything else only happens by the permission of Allah and only he knows the full wisdom's behind it and sees all the different perspectives that are hidden from us, we only see things from a narrow minded short-term perspective and never the big picture on what the future ramification are in a grand scheme of things.
You have to see through the absurdity than jinns can control the weather, that is either a grave misunderstanding or shirk by you assuming spirits have God like powers.
We also know when 3 things become common in a Muslim society with no one making active efforts to stop it (adultery, corruption, sixiir) collective punishment comes down upon us in various ways which includes famine, droughts, bad leadership etc. if you ever travelled around the world you would see this first hand how awfully bad we are especially in the central/northern regions.
Weather is extremely complicated and for you to suggest such and such causes this just to fulfil your pseudo suugo science is so absurd. I don't know much about what causes drought in somalia but it is a recurring problem that's intergenerational. Could God be punishing us? Could it just be a geographical punishment? These are actual questions that I will entertain and take seriously.

I have a lot to learn about Islam and will be studying the quran intensively.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
You have to see through the absurdity than jinns can control the weather, that is either a grave misunderstanding or shirk by you assuming spirits have God like powers.
You should study the natural universe (i.e. physics) and read the Quran and hadith descriptions of jinns and spirits. If this doesn't clear things up for you, you are hopeless.
 
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