COME IN AND DEBATE: Regarding Abortion, There should be just as much outrage from the community towards Muslims supporting either side

[Qeelbax]

Republicans want ZERO abortions and ZERO contraceptives. Why should a muslim support them?

In christianity you can’t use contraception and abortions are 100% not allowed. Islam isn’t like that. WITH STRICT RULES, You can get an abortion under islamic jurisdiction when deemed islamically NECESSARY and there’s nothing wrong with using a condom or birth control pill or any other contraception as long as it is safe and doesn’t cause you harm!

If you are so worried about Muslims supporting anti-abortion laws, you should also be worried about Muslims supporting the ban. As both of them are not islamic. One allows what isn’t allowed and the other disallows what is allowed. They are both wrong.

why do I say this? Because there are ALOT of muslims who are pro-republican abortion/contraception rule! So many were celebrating despite it not following islamic law. Even here on SSPOT.

Well, As MUSLIMS, should we support people who will not allow us to have our islamic rights or should we forget our rights and try to follow the other islamic law even if it means putting muslim womens our rights on the back burner????

Reminder this is a discussion and not necessarily my view. Don’t attack me.

 

[alexander]

An effective way to reduce abortion is providing better maternal care, paid maternal leave, strong childcare system, education and contraceptives. The republicans are not willing to do none Of this . Their states are shitholes with highest infant mortality rates, teen pregnancies and maternal mortality rates. For black mothers in Alabama, Their mortality is worse than Iraq. If you are not willing to address the root cause of the problem, then the solutions are bound to fail.

 

[Enter]

Have Republicans actually made medically necessary abortions illegal?

I suspect not.

A lot of the hysteria seems to be coming from one side disingenuously defending at will abortions.

 

[Qeelbax]

Have Republicans actually made medically necessary abortions illegal?

I suspect not.

A lot of the hysteria seems to be coming from one side disingenuously defending at will abortions.

You think I’m lying?

You do know christianity and islam have different rulings? It’s a strict NO to any abortion in Christianity. 5 days ago they ruled no in Idaho for a womens life being at risk and their was another case of a 10 yo rape victim being denied in another state.

You should maybe do research warya instead of jumping to a side

 

[Taij4an]

I don't care about non-Muslim countries everything they do is gonna be wrong one way or the other.

 

[Omar del Sur]

If I recall correctly, during the days of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)... there was war between the Romans and Persians.

And the Muslims were wanting the Romans to win. Because the Romans were Christians and the Persians were fireworshippers.

These days, when two non-Muslim sides go at it, it's like Muslims want to be more Muslim than the sahaabah.... "both sides are non-Muslim and so we have to be vehemently and equally opposed to both sides"... but the sahaabah themselves favored the Romans over the Persians.

So I believe this is the right approach, at least sometimes- you look at which side is better in a relative sense.

As far as this abortion thing, I think obviously the Republicans are closer to what is correct in regards to the issue. Now they need to make exceptions for medical necessity and rape but these are very rare cases. Overall, the banning is much better.

Abortion threatens all of us. Allah very well may punish us all for these sins. Which one honestly places us more in danger of divine wrath? Abortions being a commonplace thing as was the status quo or the abortion restrictions? Obviously the former places us much more at a risk of divine wrath upon the society.

 

[Enter]

You think I’m lying?

You do know christianity and islam have different rulings? It’s a strict NO to any abortion in Christianity. 5 days ago they ruled no in Idaho for a womens life being at risk and their was another case of a 10 yo rape victim being denied in another state.

You should maybe do research warya instead of jumping to a side

That doesn't answer my question. Is it actually illegal to have an abortion in any US state where doctors deem it medically necessary?

 

[Qeelbax]

That doesn't answer my question. Is it actually illegal to have an abortion in any US state where doctors deem it medically necessary?

Yes.

They are even rejecting women who miscarried incase they get written up for abortion. In TEXAS.

 

[Qeelbax]

Now they need to make exceptions for medical necessity and rape but these are very rare cases.

These aren’t that rare, it’s like 8-10%. Also contraception is ok.

Abortion threatens all of us. Allah very well may punish us all for these sins. Which one honestly places us more in danger of divine wrath? Abortions being a commonplace thing as was the status quo or the abortion restrictions? Obviously the former places us much more at a risk of divine wrath upon the society.

both do warya. Both of them are wrong and you know it.
A baby in a womb isn’t more alive than a woman.

Why would unaliving a woman be less “divine wrath” than a baby in a womb?

I hope you hear yourself.

 

[Qeelbax]

recall correctly, during the days of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)... there was war between the Romans and Persians.

And the Muslims were wanting the Romans to win. Because the Romans were Christians and the Persians were fireworshippers.

These days, when two non-Muslim sides go at it, it's like Muslims want to be more Muslim than the sahaabah.... "both sides are non-Muslim and so we have to be vehemently and equally opposed to both sides"... but the sahaabah themselves favored the Romans over the Persians.

That narrative doesn’t apply here.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Republicans want ZERO abortions and ZERO contraceptives. Why should a muslim support them?

In christianity you can’t use contraception and abortions are 100% not allowed. Islam isn’t like that. WITH STRICT RULES, You can get an abortion under islamic jurisdiction when deemed islamically NECESSARY and there’s nothing wrong with using a condom or birth control pill or any other contraception as long as it is safe and doesn’t cause you harm!

If you are so worried about Muslims supporting anti-abortion laws, you should also be worried about Muslims supporting the ban. As both of them are not islamic. One allows what isn’t allowed and the other disallows what is allowed. They are both wrong.

why do I say this? Because there are ALOT of muslims who are pro-republican abortion/contraception rule! So many were celebrating despite it not following islamic law. Even here on SSPOT.

Well, As MUSLIMS, should we support people who will not allow us to have our islamic rights or should we forget our rights and try to follow the other islamic law even if it means putting muslim womens our rights on the back burner????

Reminder this is a discussion and not necessarily my view. Don’t attack me.

Yes.

They are even rejecting women who miscarried incase they get written up for abortion. In TEXAS.

Now that’s completely false as all states allow for medical exemptions including the states where abortion is banned.

The biggest problem with this entire issue is the deliberate misinformation that’s being spread especially by the pro-abortion side. Claiming that ectopic pregnancies, medical necessities are included in the ban of abortion is just a tactic to subvert attention away from the crux of the issue which is the liberty of a woman to abort for just about any reason.


When it relates to abortion states that ban it have already made exceptions for it & even exclude certain procedures from the term abortion.

Here’s for Texas

This is for Louisiana

As you can see above despite abortion being banned in the states above there exists exemptions for medical necessities. The only problem that I came across was in some states they didn’t include exceptions for rape.

No matter how you look at it being in favour of the ban is the lesser of the two evils.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Personally I don't care about the social politics of the west as long as the messed up stuff isn't forced on me and the only time a woman should feel the need to abort is if she was raped or her life was in danger if she tried to convince besides that islamically its all haram.

I don't really follow the news on this so correct me if I'm wrong but this is a state by state thing so technically you can still get an abortion and I'm sure rape victims can still get abortions rights?

I guess I don't have a problem with it being outlawed aslong as there are exception like I mentioned above because those exceptions are the purpose of abortion clinics in Muslim countries.

It's dumb to totally out law it and to totally allow it.

 

[Omar del Sur]

These aren’t that rare, it’s like 8-10%. Also contraception is ok.

both do warya. Both of them are wrong and you know it.
A baby in a womb isn’t more alive than a woman.

Why would unaliving a woman be less “divine wrath” than a baby in a womb?

I hope you hear yourself.

I'm not some feminist woman. I don't have an inner feminist woman and I don't lose a moment of sleep over opposing abortion. If it wasn't for white people, I doubt many women here would be concerned about it either.

I think abortion in cases of rape or to save life of mother at least in the US are extremely rare. In the vast majority of cases, the abortion is entirely unjustified. So overall the abortion bans are much better than the previous status quo.

 

[The Somali Caesar]

I'm talking in general not from an Islamic perspective:

If it's the right of a women to have an abortion, it's the right of the man to not have to pay if the women decides to keep the baby

 

[Omar del Sur]

Rarity of the “Hard Cases”​

People habitually overestimate the number of abortions committed for the classic “hard cases” of rape and incest, eugenics and life and health of the mother, a common error that is not at all discouraged by pro-abortionists.

Thirty years ago, Dr. Irving Cushner, Professor of Obstetrics at the UCLA School of Medicine, testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee. When one of the Senators asked him how often abortions are necessary, whether to to save the life of the mother or to preserve her physical health, Dr. Cushner, who was strongly pro-abortion, answered, “In this country, about one percent.”3

This number has not changed. During the years 1996 to 2020, the states of Florida, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Utah compiled data on the reasons women obtain abortions. Of the 2.4 million aborting women surveyed, only 1.14% replied that they were having abortions to protect their lives or physical health.

What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary? | HLI

What percentage of abortions are medically necessary? In the US, cases of true medical necessity are exceedingly rare or nonexistent...

www.hli.org

3.5% of Abortions Are for the “Hard Cases”​

...

• 1.14% are done to save the life or physical health of the mother.
• 1.28% to preserve the mental health of the mother.
• 0.39% in cases of rape or incest.
• 0.69% for fetal birth defects, or eugenics.
• 3.50% for all the hard cases combined.
• 96.50% of all abortions are therefore performed for social or economic reasons.2

Reasons Women Get Abortions | Human Life International

Contrary to popular belief, the reasons women get abortions are usually NOT rape, incest, the life of the mother, or serious birth defects. In reality...

www.hli.org

like I said, I lose zero sleep over opposing abortion.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Rarity of the “Hard Cases”​

People habitually overestimate the number of abortions committed for the classic “hard cases” of rape and incest, eugenics and life and health of the mother, a common error that is not at all discouraged by pro-abortionists.

Thirty years ago, Dr. Irving Cushner, Professor of Obstetrics at the UCLA School of Medicine, testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee. When one of the Senators asked him how often abortions are necessary, whether to to save the life of the mother or to preserve her physical health, Dr. Cushner, who was strongly pro-abortion, answered, “In this country, about one percent.”3

This number has not changed. During the years 1996 to 2020, the states of Florida, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Utah compiled data on the reasons women obtain abortions. Of the 2.4 million aborting women surveyed, only 1.14% replied that they were having abortions to protect their lives or physical health.

View attachment 230505

What Percentage of Abortions Are Medically Necessary? | HLI

What percentage of abortions are medically necessary? In the US, cases of true medical necessity are exceedingly rare or nonexistent...

www.hli.org

3.5% of Abortions Are for the “Hard Cases”​

...

• 1.14% are done to save the life or physical health of the mother.
• 1.28% to preserve the mental health of the mother.
• 0.39% in cases of rape or incest.
• 0.69% for fetal birth defects, or eugenics.
• 3.50% for all the hard cases combined.
• 96.50% of all abortions are therefore performed for social or economic reasons.2

Reasons Women Get Abortions | Human Life International

Contrary to popular belief, the reasons women get abortions are usually NOT rape, incest, the life of the mother, or serious birth defects. In reality...

www.hli.org

like I said, I lose zero sleep over opposing abortion.

Those statements are quite profound when you think about the implications of unrestricted abortion. It also opens your eyes towards the hidden agendas that underlie this entire issue.

Take for instance the effects it has on black population in America, abortions in BW is equivalent to about half the number of live births. If BW had 500,000 live births they’ll also abort 250,000 in the same year

When all the facts are laid down, being pro abortion leads to advocating to more harm than good islamically. As what’s being championed for in the pro abortion camp is not the exceptions that Islam allows in the case of abortion but the unrestricted right to standardise abortions under any circumstance.

How can any muslim simply choose to ignore the murder of millions of babies ? The thought of it is quite shocking.

 

[Angelina]

I'm not some feminist woman. I don't have an inner feminist woman and I don't lose a moment of sleep over opposing abortion. If it wasn't for white people, I doubt many women here would be concerned about it either.

I think abortion in cases of rape or to save life of mother at least in the US are extremely rare. In the vast majority of cases, the abortion is entirely unjustified. So overall the abortion bans are much better than the previous status quo.

If America isn't allowing abortions for sick mothers and rape then, Omar I didn't know that only impacts white women.

Ectopic pregnancies ect or women not beings able to carry babies due to illnesses is common. You might not be a woman, but a woman being concerned isn't feminist, it is about the simple reality of being a woman and something that can easily effect us.

A bit of compassion and not being so selfish goes a long way. I can see why some Muslim women will fall into feminism and it is the flippant attitudes to things that can easily impact women with hardly any care for your sister's in Islam.

Rather sick if you ask me.


By all means be for the abortion ban, but not if it means a mother's health, rape ect isn't exceptions.

 

[Angelina]

Now that’s completely false as all states allow for medical exemptions including the states where abortion is banned.

The biggest problem with this entire issue is the deliberate misinformation that’s being spread especially by the pro-abortion side. Claiming that ectopic pregnancies, medical necessities are included in the ban of abortion is just a tactic to subvert attention away from the crux of the issue which is the liberty of a woman to abort for just about any reason.


When it relates to abortion states that ban it have already made exceptions for it & even exclude certain procedures from the term abortion.

Here’s for Texas


View attachment 230454
This is for Louisiana
View attachment 230455

As you can see above despite abortion being banned in the states above there exists exemptions for medical necessities. The only problem that I came across was in some states they didn’t include exceptions for rape.

No matter how you look at it being in favour of the ban is the lesser of the two evils.

How is it misinformation when actual news stations and articles have mentioned this:

I was like, 'Don’t make her an appointment,'" Dr. Jessica Rubino, an abortion provider at Austin Women’s Health Center, recounted telling her staff. "'Get her out of the state. Get on the phone with someone in another clinic and make sure she can get an abortion because I will not be able to do it here. I’m going to have to wait till she’s actually dying.'"

My lawyer told me, 'Unless they are on that table dying in front of you, you cannot do an abortion on them or you are breaking the law,'" she said, adding, "How am I supposed to help people from jail?"

Abortion ban exceptions: What legally constitutes a 'life-threatening emergency'?

New abortion bans make exceptions for cases in which the mother’s life is at stake. Doctors wonder which threats are serious enough to absolve them of legal risk.

www.google.com

This is the experience of actual doctors on the field. Doctors are waiting the last minute or not at all due to fear risking women to actually die when doctors could have done it earlier.

I'm sorry, but any married woman needs to be worried. This is messed up.

 

[Omar del Sur]

If America isn't allowing abortions for sick mothers and rape then, Omar I didn't know that only impacts white women.

Ectopic pregnancies ect or women not beings able to carry babies due to illnesses is common. You might not be a woman, but a woman being concerned isn't feminist, it is about the simple reality of being a woman and something that can easily effect us.

A bit of compassion and not being so selfish goes a long way. I can see why some Muslim women will fall into feminism and it is the flippant attitudes to things that can easily impact women with hardly any care for your sister's in Islam.

Rather sick if you ask me.


By all means be for the abortion ban, but not if it means a mother's health, rape ect isn't exceptions.

it's sick that I'm against abortion?

and it only affects white women? no my point was that it's only because of the influence of white people that there's all this pro-abortion stuff on here.

hardly any care for the sister in Islam? did you not see the statistics? we're talking about a tiny percentage of statistics while the vast immense majority of abortions have no Islamic justification.

obviously the better side is the pro abortion ban. I'm for exemptions for the "hard cases" I posted about earlier but those are a tiny percentage of the actual abortion cases. we can look at this intelligently or in some emotional type way and the latter is what the pro-abortion side is promoting.

 

[Angelina]

it's sick that I'm against abortion?

and it only affects white women? no my point was that it's only because of the influence of white people that there's all this pro-abortion stuff on here.

hardly any care for the sister in Islam? did you not see the statistics? we're talking about a tiny percentage of statistics while the vast immense majority of abortions have no Islamic justification.

obviously the better side is the pro abortion ban.

Read what I wrote again. Especially the last paragraph.

Do you deny that Muslim women can end up having ectopic pregnancies? What happens if they can't abort it?