Collectivism or Individualism

[Samaalic Era]

Which one would you categorise yourself as?

Are the interests of the collective more important to you or would you put your personal interest first at the expense of the collective

 

[Helios]

Depends where I am. In the West = Pure Individualism, In Somalia more Collectivism

Collectivism be like

 

[Samaalic Era]

Depends where I am. In the West = Pure Individualism, In Somalia more Collectivism

Individualism is completing pursuing your interests regardless of who is affected from those close to you such as your parents and family.

How would you describe yourself from that?

 

[Helios]

Individualism is completing pursuing your interests regardless of who is affected from those close to you such as your parents and family.

How would you describe yourself from that?

Yes I would have a concern towards my family but beyond that and maybe long time neighbors I don't really care for what else goes on. Donating to charities and that's pretty much it

 

[Xasusi]

Individualism is completing pursuing your interests regardless of who is affected from those close to you such as your parents and family.

How would you describe yourself from that?

Your family doing well is in your individual interest.

Besides ultimately Islam is more individualist than collectivist.

 

[Medulla]

My individual goals would help the collective prosper , yes I sound like a totalitarian dictator but I promise you success would be guaranteed with me in charge.

 

[Samaalic Era]

Your family doing well is in your individual interest.

Besides ultimately Islam is more individualist than collectivist.

Islam is actually collectivist. Collectivism is prioritising your family or clan interests over yourself. Individualism is only rampant in modern societies where ppl only care about the own gain at any cost.

 

[Xasusi]

Islam is actually collectivist. Collectivism is prioritising your family or clan interests over yourself. Individualism is only rampant in modern societies where ppl only care about the own gain at any cost.

Eh we differ in definitions. This is too complex to argue about anyways, but I get where you're coming from. I don't disagree.

 

[Samaalic Era]

My individual goals would help the collective prosper , yes I sound like a totalitarian dictator but I promise you success would be guaranteed with me in charge.

They may benefit but you pursed your interests so it is still individualism

 

[Medulla]

They may benefit but you pursed your interests so it is still individualism

If that's the case collectivism doesn't exist

 

[Radical]

Sxb, Are you asking about personal identity under collectivist societies? Or the relationship between personal identity and community?

Collectivism is not a general term for community or communal identity but specifically societies which place higher value on the community or group than any particular individual, Basically utilitarianism, It's also something of a pejorative used among libertarian circles and the like for social theories judged not individualistic enough.

 

[Samaalic Era]

If that's the case collectivism doesn't exist

It does sxb. It's how most ancient and nomadic societies survived

 

[Samaalic Era]

Sxb, Are you asking about personal identity under collectivist societies? Or the relationship between personal identity and community?

Collectivism is not a general term for community or communal identity but specifically societies which place higher value on the community or group than any particular individual, Basically utilitarianism, It's also something of a pejorative used among libertarian circles and the like for social theories judged not individualistic enough.

Not personal identity. Many mistake collectivism for sheep mentality but that is far from the case. The emphasis on the ties of kinship is collectivism especially when it comes to Somali society. In the Somali society which I use as an example , the funeral costs, blood money, land disputes, projects etr are done by your sub clan. If a random 10th cousin kills someone, you pay part of the blood money. Collectivists are part of closely tied group beyond the immediate family or group. Individuals act on the interests of the group rather than a personal interest.

Collectivists have historically been the ones who survived and brought civilisations where individualism is a new modern concept that only resides in modern countries

 

[Medulla]

Not personal identity. Many mistake collectivism for sheep mentality but that is far from the case. The emphasis on the ties of kinship is collectivism especially when it comes to Somali society. In the Somali society which I use as an example , the funeral costs, blood money, land disputes, projects etr are done by your sub clan. If a random 10th cousin kills someone, you pay part of the blood money. Collectivists are part of closely tied group beyond the immediate family or group. Individuals act on the interests of the group rather than a personal interest.

Collectivists have historically been the ones who survived and brought civilisations where individualism is a new modern concept that only resides in modern countries

Can't the example you've given also be individulastic aswell you're only doing it cause they'll do the same for you in the future. Yes you may be helping people but that's just a byproduct of your main goal

I don't believe true collectivism can exist , it may work in a tuulo but not in major cities how would you deceived what's worth doing who's idea/thought is given more value. Isn't it just yet again personal interest > the collective it's a loop you might as well join me and become a tyrant sxb leave the dream behind.

 

[Samaalic Era]

Can't the example you've given also be individulastic aswell you're only doing it cause they'll do the same for you in the future. Yes you may be helping people but that's just a byproduct of your main goal

I don't believe true collectivism can exist , it may work in a tuulo but not in major cities how would you deceived what's worth doing who's idea/thought is given more value. Isn't it just yet again personal interest > the collective it's a loop you might as well join me and become a tyrant sxb leave the dream behind.

Lmao

Saxiib, the individualist has no regard for other than himself. That's the key part.

Somalis raised in the west are by far Individualists. They have no regard for their parents and how their actions will impact them and this is one of many examples

 

[Medulla]

Lmao

Saxiib, the individualist has no regard for other than himself. That's the key part.

Somalis raised in the west are by far Individualists. They have no regard for their parents and how their actions will impact them and this is one of many examples

Fair point I was looking at it through my actions as they would always be for the good of the community . I don't know what others would do so collectivism may work. Only since it will regulate crazy ideas/interest that come at the expense of others.

 

[Cilmi-doon]

A boy cares only about himself. A man looks after the well-being of himself and others.

 

[Samaalic Era]

A boy cares only about himself. A man looks after the well-being of himself and others.

100% saxiib. This can easily be noticed. Real men are Shepherds who guide and protect their flock

 

[Cilmi-doon]

100% saxiib. This can easily be noticed. Real men are Shepherds who guide and protect their flock

The stories of Muusa AS and Prophet Muhammad pbuh are very good examples of great men

 

[Madd]

Can't the example you've given also be individulastic aswell you're only doing it cause they'll do the same for you in the future. Yes you may be helping people but that's just a byproduct of your main goal

I don't believe true collectivism can exist , it may work in a tuulo but not in major cities how would you deceived what's worth doing who's idea/thought is given more value. Isn't it just yet again personal interest > the collective it's a loop you might as well join me and become a tyrant sxb leave the dream behind.

It's similar to the issue of economic calculation in regards to polanyi socialism. You sound like a neo liberal or hayekian.