Class struggle in Somalia? What is the relationship between rich and poor somalis?

[Yukon_Niner]

You're talking to an actual communist now. feel free to continue on with insults and swearing if it helps your argument, I for one will keep it respectful

I'm sure you agree that these are issues and a lot of them are actually going to remain with us for as long as we have a capitalist system. Some of these things are:

>racism/gang violence
>terrorism
>political ignorance
>extreme poverty

Many of these social and systemic problems are as a result of capitalism, but many others are also due to the fact that we live in a class divided society, where one class rules, and the others are forced to serve and be exploited. Capitalism helps to perpetuate that class divided society through generations

A perfect example of how capitalism keeps these issues well alive is by looking at the African American population in US (land of the free)
As I'm sure you're unaware, economic warfare has long been the choice tool of racial oppression for Black Americans. From slavery to segregated businesses, to encouraging a crack epidemic, to still being forced to live in low-income housing that perpetuates and exacerbates the problems of the Black community like poverty and gang violence. And also the obvious one, police brutality, it's obvious how Somalis are also a victim of this
This is much worse in countries that are going through the depravity caused by colonialism and neocolonialism
Just because you have a higher standard of living than 3rd world countries doesnt mean the system is perfect and doesn't need to change, far from it.

Extreme poverty is often the root of many forms of violence. Through socialism, oppressed poor people will have both political and economic power to create change in their communities. Once you deal with the root cause of the issue, the healing can begin through well funded social programs such as education, mental health services etc. while everyone has their basic needs met to survive so no one will have to resort to committing acts of violence just to eat their next meal.

I don't know how you argue respectfully with stupid. Watch the guy spam you with replies kkkkkkk.

 

[Kaafiye]

Notice how I don't use these attacks on typical Liberals like what you see in Canada, or the Northern European countries.

I can disagree with how they run things in Denmark without looking at the Danish as being a Communist

It's called having nuance you stupid f*ck. You can't say "I wouldn't mind Communism" in one breath and then claim to be a Social Democrats in the other breath.

It's like you suffer from a retarded version of amnesia where you accidentally find yourself arguing against your own points

P.S. And yes, I do fear the attacks of vigilante white supremacists who will surely step in as soon as the Police Department is disbanded, which is what Ilhan Omar fucking argued for. You have to be a selfish son-of-a-c*nt to dismiss these fears. As if we haven't seen mentally ill deranged racists commit massacres already

Imagine how much worse it would be when the Police are pulled out. The fact that you can't even make that connection means you're just a selfish c*nt who would rather dunk on other Somalis than actually be concerned about their safety

And regarding your bullshit about Somalis needing to "defend themselves"

That's the type of reply a selfish c*nt would make. What if the Somali cannot fight? What if it's an obese person who doesn't know how to fight or defend themselves? Do you feel like a sudden brave man because YOU can supposedly defend yourself against a racist? Can all people defend themselves? Can a Somali Ayeeyo defend herself?

Get the f*ck out of here with that bullshit.

You're embarrassing yourself my nigga. Imagine dismissing my concerns for the safety of other Somalis

Delete your existence

 

[Kaafiye]

You're talking to an actual communist now. feel free to continue on with insults and swearing if it helps your argument, I for one will keep it respectful

I'm sure you agree that these are issues and a lot of them are actually going to remain with us for as long as we have a capitalist system. Some of these things are:

>racism/gang violence
>terrorism
>political ignorance
>extreme poverty

Many of these social and systemic problems are as a result of capitalism, but many others are also due to the fact that we live in a class divided society, where one class rules, and the others are forced to serve and be exploited. Capitalism helps to perpetuate that class divided society through generations

A perfect example of how capitalism keeps these issues well alive is by looking at the African American population in US (land of the free)
As I'm sure you're unaware, economic warfare has long been the choice tool of racial oppression for Black Americans. From slavery to segregated businesses, to encouraging a crack epidemic, to still being forced to live in low-income housing that perpetuates and exacerbates the problems of the Black community like poverty and gang violence. And also the obvious one, police brutality, it's obvious how Somalis are also a victim of this
This is much worse in countries that are going through the depravity caused by colonialism and neocolonialism
Just because you have a higher standard of living than 3rd world countries doesnt mean the system is perfect and doesn't need to change, far from it.

Extreme poverty is often the root of many forms of violence. Through socialism, oppressed poor people will have both political and economic power to create change in their communities. Once you deal with the root cause of the issue, the healing can begin through well funded social programs such as education, mental health services etc. while everyone has their basic needs met to survive so no one will have to resort to committing acts of violence just to eat their next meal.

Yeah, you're gonna have to ditch these long-winded talking points

Notice how I brought up a situation in current day Somalia and then you went off on a tangent about US History and the nasty stuff that went on over there.

If you're gonna come at me, come with actual logical arguments. Not history lessons about the USA

 

[Mukhalas]

An educated somali with multi million dollar business sees an illiterate rer miyi from the same sub sub sub clan as his equal.

Not the perfect social system, but there are much worse out there.

 

[Kaafiye]

An educated somali with multi million dollar business sees an illiterate rer miyi from the same sub sub sub clan as his equal.

Not the perfect social system, but there are much worse out there.

With the way Marx describes things, he makes it seem as if our conflicts are based on economics and "class struggle", not realizing the complexity of human beings and what motivates us. Somalis DO NOT have this frame of thinking, despite what the coons on this thread would have you believe

 

[Radical]

Yeah, you're gonna have to ditch these dumb long-winded talking points

Notice how I brought up a situation in current day Somalia and then you went off on a tangent about US History and the nasty stuff that went on over there.

If you're gonna come at me, come with actual logical arguments. Not history lessons about the USA

I was looking at the bigger picture and bringing historical evidence, and I did mention third world counties if you bothered to read.

You might believe being more charitable and philanthropic is the best way of eradicating poverty, while I'd argue that we shouldn't depend on a system that puts faith in a small minority of individuals to help most of the population, THAT is what looking at the bigger picture is

 

[Radical]

With the way Marx describes things, he makes it seem as if our conflicts are based on economics and "class struggle", not realizing the complexity of human beings and what motivates us. Somalis DO NOT have this frame of thinking, despite what the coons on this thread would have you believe

So many people judge Marx from the superficial context of his ideas, I can't blame you, you're not the first one to have such a clouded view

Marx's main view, was that only the working class had the class interest to end the system of class division. It is this instinctual class interest that would fuel the end of class division. This is because it is the most exploited class in society, and also the class that is the cornerstone of capitalist production.


My view, is that we must help the working class to organize itself and to become conscious of its class interests. This means that people have to organize with each other and move past the sectarian opportunism that plagues it-

 

[Kaafiye]

I was looking at the bigger picture and bringing historical evidence, and I did mention third world counties if you bothered to read.

You might believe being more charitable and philanthropic is the best way of eradicating poverty, while I'd argue that we shouldn't depend on a system that puts faith in a small minority of individuals to help most of the population, THAT is what looking at the bigger picture is

That's where you're wrong

I don't believe that charity and philanthropy are a long-term solution to poverty

Charity is a Band-Aid. Charity is only there to buy you some time, so the poor people don't die of hunger or thirst.

But the real solution to poverty is capital accumulation. The amount of capital investment per head is directly proportional to the increase in living standards.

Having an involved Government that wants to redistribute wealth won't work if there's no wealth to redistribute. There needs to be wealth created FIRST, before this wealth is divvied up. Even if you confiscated every single dollar from wealthy Somalis and you were to redistribute it, it will only lead to a small one-time benefit to the poor. So redistribution itself isn't enough

Point of example, if you confiscated every single dollar from every US Billionaire (an impossible proposition, as much of their wealth is in stock, which would lose value if they were sold en masse), it would give each American a one-time payment of $9000.

That might look like a solid sum, but next year you won't be able to tap into that same source of income. It'll be gone.

 

[Liltop]

Garowe looks like a refugee camp.If this city is the best superior Darood can offer then you really need to humble yourself.People from other parts of the world would literally LOL if they say Garowe

Garrowe/Nugaal is the richest area in all of Somalia, atleast Daroods can say we're on top of other Somalis.
Xamar is blowing every 3 seconds and Hargeisa is crawling with khat zombies and prostitutes.

On what planet would someone compare Somali cities to first world countries???

 

[Kaafiye]

So many people judge Marx from the superficial context of his ideas, I can't blame you, you're not the first one to have such a clouded view

Marx's main view, was that only the working class had the class interest to end the system of class division. It is this instinctual class interest that would fuel the end of class division. This is because it is the most exploited class in society, and also the class that is the cornerstone of capitalist production.


My view, is that we must help the working class to organize itself and to become conscious of its class interests. This means that Marxists have to organize with each other and move past the sectarian opportunism that plagues it-

Yes I am fully aware of what he believes

Marx believed in the 1860s that the workers in factories would have their living standards squeezed over time, until they can't take the pressure anymore. And their living standards would drop due to the capitalists siphoning off their "surplus labour" and pocketing it for themselves

And that this will precipitate a workers revolution

That wasn't the case though. From the 1860s until the 1930s, European and American living standards skyrocketed. Their wages increased multiple fold, their life expectancy went up, and they had a better quality of life. The exact opposite of Marx's own predictions turned out to be the case.

His problem was that he had a faulty understanding of economics and human nature.

 

[Marcus]

Arguing with Marxists

 

[Radical]

That's where you're wrong

I don't believe that charity and philanthropy are a long-term solution to poverty

Charity is a Band-Aid. Charity is only there to buy you some time, so the poor people don't die of hunger or thirst.

But the real solution to poverty is capital accumulation. The amount of capital investment per head is directly proportional to the increase in living standards.

Having an involved Government that wants to redistribute wealth won't work if there's no wealth to redistribute. There needs to be wealth created FIRST, before this wealth is divvied up. Even if you confiscated every single dollar from wealthy Somalis and you were to redistribute it, it will only lead to a small one-time benefit to the poor. So redistribution itself isn't enough

Point of example, if you confiscated every single dollar from every US Billionaire (an impossible proposition, as much of their wealth is in stock, which would lose value if they were sold en masse), it would give each American a one-time payment of $9000.

That might look like a solid sum, but next year you won't be able to tap into that same source of income. It'll be gone.

It doesn't matter how you distribute or not distribute, if the power still lies with the capitalists, just like it doesn't matter how well a slaveowner treats his slave; the system itself is unjust and those in power can take everything away again.
Also keep in mind that capitalism forms a world system that is marked by hierarchies. Some countries will specialize in capital goods or other high added value productive chains, while others will specialize in low added value productive chains, or natural resources exploitation, there will always be hierarchies, and if that's the case there will always be oppression as that's what any person in power will gravitate towards, oppressing.

Yes I am fully aware of what he believes

Marx believed in the 1860s that the workers in factories would have their living standards squeezed over time, until they can't take the pressure anymore. And their living standards would drop due to the capitalists siphoning off their "surplus labour" and pocketing it for themselves

And that this will precipitate a workers revolution

That wasn't the case though. From the 1860s until the 1930s, European and American living standards skyrocketed. Their wages increased multiple fold, their life expectancy went up, and they had a better quality of life. The exact opposite of Marx's own predictions turned out to be the case.

His problem was that he had a faulty understanding of economics and human nature.

Oh he was definitely right, raising a family and leading a comfortable life is quite awful by today's standards, the majority of the population are below the poverty line, Healthcare prices and college tuitions keep going up every year, people can't afford homes as easily as they could, while minimum wage has stagnated, most are struggling with student loans as well. Today, both parents need to work to sustain a normal living, The standards are indeed decreasing.

 

[Yukon_Niner]

Notice how I don't use these attacks on typical Liberals like what you see in Canada, or the Northern European countries.

I can disagree with how they run things in Denmark without looking at the Danish as being a Communist

It's called having nuance you stupid f*ck. You can't say "I wouldn't mind Communism" in one breath and then claim to be a Social Democrats in the other breath.

It's like you suffer from a retarded version of amnesia where you accidentally find yourself arguing against your own points

P.S. And yes, I do fear the attacks of vigilante white supremacists who will surely step in as soon as the Police Department is disbanded, which is what Ilhan Omar fucking argued for. You have to be a selfish son-of-a-c*nt to dismiss these fears. As if we haven't seen mentally ill deranged racists commit massacres already

Imagine how much worse it would be when the Police are pulled out. The fact that you can't even make that connection means you're just a selfish c*nt who would rather dunk on other Somalis than actually be concerned about their safety

And regarding your bullshit about Somalis needing to "defend themselves"

That's the type of reply a selfish c*nt would make. What if the Somali cannot fight? What if it's an obese person who doesn't know how to fight or defend themselves? Do you feel like a sudden brave man because YOU can supposedly defend yourself against a racist? Can all people defend themselves? Can a Somali Ayeeyo defend herself?

Get the f*ck out of here with that bullshit.

You're embarrassing yourself my nigga. Imagine dismissing my concerns for the safety of other Somalis

Delete your existence

I've already pointed out what you call communism is normal in Europe in another thread, don't bullshit your way out of that one and yet again here is the definition of a communist

The noun:

a person who supports or believes in the principles of communism.
"I was very left-wing but I was never a communist"

The adjective:

adhering to or based on the principles of communism.
"a French communist writer"

There's a minority Uber rich class.

The gap was big enough I wouldn't mind communism, it could only rectify the situation.

Here is the comment which you began calling me a communist over. Please do point out where I fit into this definition.

I said it could only rectify the situation, why you ask? Because that place is about as free and unregulated as it gets. Public institutions are non-existent or suck while private one's extort the people (you only have to look at the telecom industry). Please don't use words you don't understand, if you knew what nuance was you wouldn't be calling me a communist you fucking retarded arsewipe.


Ilhan

Redirect Notice

“You can’t really reform a department that is rotten to the root. What you can do is rebuild, and so this is our opportunity,” Omar said.

The Minneapolis City Council voted unanimously on Friday to explore new model for public safety.

This is what Ilhan Omar said. Dismantle and rebuild, that's also something that's been done in Eastern Bloc European country's successfully.


Don't feign worry or moral superiority while lying, it's a shitty look. The police isn't going to disappear in MN or is that what they told you in your righty whitey forums where you're the ? Kkkkkkkk. As I said you fucking moron, if you truly gave a shit you'd advocate for more arms in the Somali community. The nice thing about guns is it can be wielded by Both a grandma and an obese person but I still don't see you pushing for it, nope instead you're out here twisting the words of a Somali in congress

You have no concern for the Somali community you fucking little bîtch, try that bullshit on someone else. At the very least get a backbone you little bítch and stop telling us how ilhan fucked us all because cadaan people don't like her.

 

[Kaafiye]

It doesn't matter how you distribute or not distribute, if the power still lies with the capitalists, just like it doesn't matter how well a slaveowner treats his slave; the system itself is unjust and those in power can take everything away again.
Also keep in mind that capitalism forms a world system that is marked by hierarchies. Some countries will specialize in capital goods or other high added value productive chains, while others will specialize in low added value productive chains, or natural resources exploitation, there will always be hierarchies, and if that's the case there will always be oppression as that's what any person in power will gravitate towards, oppressing.

Oh he was definitely right, raising a family and leading a comfortable life is quite awful by today's standards, the majority of the population are below the poverty line, Healthcare prices and college tuitions keep going up every year, people can't afford homes as easily as they could, while minimum wage has stagnated, most are struggling with student loans as well. Today, both parents need to work to sustain a normal living, The standards are indeed decreasing.

"The power lies with the capitalist" ....making it seem as if economics is a zero-sum power game where one can only gain at the expense of the other. Stop confusing economic well-being (which is not zero-sum) with politics (which is indeed zero-sum)

Countries like South Korea used to make low-quality and easily made goods like t-shirts and shoes. They graduated to making cars, electronics, robotics and ships. America back in the 1800's used to focus on making low-quality textiles before they moved upwards. Same with Japan, Hong Kong, China, and many other countries. As a country develops a solid manufacturing base, then decades of experience and training will facilitate these low-quality workers giving birth to children who will work in much higher-quality work than their parents. Young Chinese men in their 20's are building cars and other advanced stuff and their Fathers were making cheap shoes back in the 1990s

And BTW, you're not gonna get away with claiming that living standards are dropping. That is a lie that cannot be supported by any facts. The global poverty rate has been plummeting like a rock since 1980. Even when you visit a city like Nairobi, it's radically different to how it looked in 1999. People are getting richer and we are DEFINITELY much richer today than in the 1860s, when Karl Marx was saying this stuff

The average man today has a living standard that Karl Marx couldn't dream of, yet he wrongfully assumed that the "working class" would get squeezed until they can't take it anymore

He couldn't have been any more wrong

 

[Kaafiye]

I've already pointed out what you call communism is normal in Europe in another thread, don't bullshit your way out of that one and yet again here is the definition of a communist

The noun:

a person who supports or believes in the principles of communism.
"I was very left-wing but I was never a communist"

The adjective:

adhering to or based on the principles of communism.
"a French communist writer"



Here is the comment which you began calling me a communist over. Please do point out where I fit into this definition.

I said it could only rectify the situation, why you ask? Because that place is about as free and unregulated as it gets. Public institutions are non-existent or suck while private one's extort the people (you only have to look at the telecom industry). Please don't use words you don't understand, if you knew what nuance was you wouldn't be calling me a communist you fucking retarded arsewipe.


Ilhan

Redirect Notice

“You can’t really reform a department that is rotten to the root. What you can do is rebuild, and so this is our opportunity,” Omar said.

The Minneapolis City Council voted unanimously on Friday to explore new model for public safety.

This is what Ilhan Omar said. Dismantle and rebuild, that's also something that's been done in Eastern Bloc European country's successfully.


Don't feign worry or moral superiority while lying, it's a shitty look. The police isn't going to disappear in MN or is that what they told you in your righty whitey forums where you're the *****? Kkkkkkkk. As I said you fucking moron, if you truly gave a shit you'd advocate for more arms in the Somali community. The nice thing about guns is it can be wielded by Both a grandma and an obese person but I still don't see you pushing for it, nope instead you're out here twisting the words of a Somali in congress

You have no concern for the Somali community you fucking little bîtch, try that bullshit on someone else. At the very least get a backbone you little bítch and stop telling us how ilhan fucked us all because cadaan people don't like her.

A man who doesn't even have the balls to own up to what he believes in now wants to keep preaching. Mind you, he said earlier that he wouldn't mind Communism in Somalia

Hooyada uu sheeg. I'm sure she'd prefer to listen to your bullshit rants instead of me.

 

[Yukon_Niner]

A man who doesn't even have the balls to own up to what he believes in now wants to keep preaching. Mind you, he said earlier that he wouldn't mind Communism in Somalia

Hooyada uu sheeg. I'm sure she'd prefer to listen to your bullshit rants instead of me.

Would you look at that, I point out your lies and you go from multiple replies/rants to one which doesn't even defend your points. Interesting isn't it?

I wouldn't mind communism in Somalia, this doesn't mean I support or endorse it.
I even posted the definition of what a communist is and quoted what I wrote so you can explain to me where I fit the definition of a communist.

And surprise surprise you are yet to do it. Fucking liar.

Ilhan has some degree of intelligence, backbone and integrity. Something which you're lacking, truly the epitome of a little bítch. Of course she'd rather listen to my rants, she can comprehend what I say. She can even read articles.

so I ask, why lie about what Ilhan said and feign concern for the Somali community? Why accuse me of being a communist when I'm not (going by literal definitions)?


And don't quote me first if you're gonna get emotional and lie you little bītch. Go to your cadaan forums and beg for forgiveness for what Ilhan done if you give so much of a shit, at least it'll make sense in your delusions.

 

[Radical]

"The power lies with the capitalist" ....making it seem as if economics is a zero-sum power game where one can only gain at the expense of the other. Stop confusing economic well-being (which is not zero-sum) with politics (which is indeed zero-sum)

Countries like South Korea used to make low-quality and easily made goods like t-shirts and shoes. They graduated to making cars, electronics, robotics and ships. America back in the 1800's used to focus on making low-quality textiles before they moved upwards. Same with Japan, Hong Kong, China, and many other countries. As a country develops a solid manufacturing base, then decades of experience and training will facilitate these low-quality workers giving birth to children who will work in much higher-quality work than their parents. Young Chinese men in their 20's are building cars and other advanced stuff and their Fathers were making cheap shoes back in the 1990s

And BTW, you're not gonna get away with claiming that living standards are dropping. That is a lie that cannot be supported by any facts. The global poverty rate has been plummeting like a rock since 1980. Even when you visit a city like Nairobi, it's radically different to how it looked in 1999. People are getting richer and we are DEFINITELY much richer today than in the 1860s, when Karl Marx was saying this stuff

The average man today has a living standard that Karl Marx couldn't dream of, yet he wrongfully assumed that the "working class" would get squeezed until they can't take it anymore

He couldn't have been any more wrong

By definition yes it is not zero sum. But the intrinsic flaws like greed among humans make it that way, if someone gets a taste of power. They do everything they can no matter how unethical to sustain and accumulate more of it

The success of asian countries was nothing more than a fluke, giving credit solely to capitalism would be like giving credit to the USSR for their industrial success as well.
Wanna know why it was a fluke? For example, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan belong to a class of countries referred to as the Four Tigers because of their powerful and rapid development. In previous decades, the World Bank and IMF have tried to replicate the success of the Tigers in similar countries, but NONE of those initiatives have been successful. Again we're not entirely sure why, but some in the field suspect that the Tigers might have just been lucky, meaning that the types of economic and social developments they underwent were advantageous at the time but might not have been earlier or later. For example, South Korea focused on developing heavy industry in the 70s when there was a large demand for it and the barrier to entry was a bit lower than it would be today.
And no need to tell you the living standards of these countries, the high suicide rates are already enough, also the rise of mental illness is quite telling on the state of the world today

Global warming is becoming a serious threat, people living in apartments while their parents lived in houses, even a degree is not that special anymore.
Funny how you've mentioned nairobi. I live there and people will tell you it's only gotten worse

Where are your sources btw? You keep saying how it's improved without any factual evidence

Decline in living standards in advanced countries highlights need for new model

The Inclusive Growth and Development Report 2017 concludes that most countries are missing important opportunities to raise economic growth

www.cnbcafrica.com

UK faces longest fall in living standards since records began, says thinktank

Resolution Foundation says cut in growth announced in budget means household disposable incomes will fall until 2020

www.theguardian.com

Living standards in decline for first time in decades

Australian living standards are in decline for the first time since the 91-92 recession despite strong corporate profits, obscene CEO salaries and an increase in the number of billionaires, research released by the peak body for working people has found.

www.actu.org.au

Declining living standards won’t be tolerated for ever

From Guy Wroble, Denver, CO, US

www.ft.com

 

[Som]

Socialism is the best way to develop a very poor country like somalia.
Between 1969-1991 we had Siad Barre who wasn't actually implementing socialist policies but still the little socialist leaning things that he did made somali a regional power in the horn of africa. Now somalia is some kind of ancapistan and many somalis fled to the west after the fall of Siad.
Look at China, they were poor and now they are a world power.
Communism turned a feudal country like russa into a global super power within less than 20 years. Before 1917 Russian empire was one the least developed country in Europe, and less than 50 years later the USSR sent the first human being in space.

 

[Kaafiye]

By definition yes it is not zero sum. But the intrinsic flaws like greed among humans make it that way, if someone gets a taste of power. They do everything they can no matter how unethical to sustain and accumulate more of it

The success of asian countries was nothing more than a fluke, giving credit solely to capitalism would be like giving credit to the USSR for their industrial success as well.
Wanna know why it was a fluke? For example, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan belong to a class of countries referred to as the Four Tigers because of their powerful and rapid development. In previous decades, the World Bank and IMF have tried to replicate the success of the Tigers in similar countries, but NONE of those initiatives have been successful. Again we're not entirely sure why, but some in the field suspect that the Tigers might have just been lucky, meaning that the types of economic and social developments they underwent were advantageous at the time but might not have been earlier or later. For example, South Korea focused on developing heavy industry in the 70s when there was a large demand for it and the barrier to entry was a bit lower than it would be today.
And no need to tell you the living standards of these countries, the high suicide rates are already enough, also the rise of mental illness is quite telling on the state of the world today

Global warming is becoming a serious threat, people living in apartments while their parents lived in houses, even a degree is not that special anymore.
Funny how you've mentioned nairobi. I live there and people will tell you it's only gotten worse

Where are your sources btw? You keep saying how it's improved without any factual evidence

Decline in living standards in advanced countries highlights need for new model

The Inclusive Growth and Development Report 2017 concludes that most countries are missing important opportunities to raise economic growth

www.cnbcafrica.com

UK faces longest fall in living standards since records began, says thinktank

Resolution Foundation says cut in growth announced in budget means household disposable incomes will fall until 2020

www.theguardian.com

Living standards in decline for first time in decades

Australian living standards are in decline for the first time since the 91-92 recession despite strong corporate profits, obscene CEO salaries and an increase in the number of billionaires, research released by the peak body for working people has found.

www.actu.org.au

Declining living standards won’t be tolerated for ever

From Guy Wroble, Denver, CO, US

www.ft.com

You talk about human flaws like greed and power-hunger in one sentence, and then you propose a socialist system which will only REINFORCE these negative human traits. What do you think happens when people are appointed for political reasons rather than maximizing economic efficiency? Remember what happened in Zimbabwe when Mugabe gave farms to his friends, or in Venezuela when Chavez appointed loyalists to work in his oil fields?

Do you really think you'll get maximum efficiency by delegating responsibility to political actors? And when I mean political actors, I include Unions, Collectives, and Cartels. All of them have interests much different from the consumers

And no, it was not a fluke. That's a load of BS. The success of Asian countries was being praised in 1979, when China was still a poor backwater nation. People then thought it was a fluke. But China imitates some of this exact same policies and look how rich they are today compared to 40 years ago!

You believe Nairobi has gotten worse since the 1980s....

You're citing irrelevant articles about Australia that have nothing to do with the topic. Even granting the premise of that article, that proves everything I'm saying. "Australian incomes fall for the first time since 1992" is making the assumption that Aussie incomes were rising every single year since then! Yet you're gonna use a 1 year decline as an indication that Aussies are poorer today than in 1992? Is this what you're arguing?

 

[Kaafiye]

Socialism is the best way to develop a very poor country like somalia.
Between 1969-1991 we had Siad Barre who wasn't actually implementing socialist policies but still the little socialist leaning things that he did made somali a regional power in the horn of africa. Now somalia is some kind of ancapistan and many somalis fled to the west after the fall of Siad.
Look at China, they were poor and now they are a world power.
Communism turned a feudal country like russa into a global super power within less than 20 years. Before 1917 Russian empire was one the least developed country in Europe, and less than 50 years later the USSR sent the first human being in space.

I can't believe this Commie is actually using CHINA as an example of the success of Communism

China only started the process of becoming rich AFTER 1978, when Chairman Mao died and his replacement instituted market reforms. US Capitalist companies like Nike put their factories over there.

Many multi billion dollar corporations arose in China during the 1980s and 1990s

China turned rich when they turned capitalist. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to you. The irony is rich here