Bantus

[southside]

i love the somali bantus but they're absolutely not aboriginal to somalia, ethnic somalis possess 10-12% of this somali hunter gatherer ancestry aboriginal to the southern region of somalia that cant be found in any ethnic group alive today and we posses more maternal haplogroups that can only be found in somalia, i found this out after scrolling through some threads, i got nothing against my Madowweyn brothers and sisters but the fact is that ethnic somalis are the most aboriginal to somalia today

 

[Grant]

i love the somali bantus but they're absolutely not aboriginal to somalia, ethnic somalis possess 10-12% of this somali hunter gatherer ancestry aboriginal to the southern region of somalia that cant be found in any ethnic group alive today and we posses more maternal haplogroups that can only be found in somalia, i found this out after scrolling through some threads, i got nothing against my Madowweyn brothers and sisters but the fact is that ethnic somalis are the most aboriginal to somalia today

Absolutely no one is claiming the Bantus are aboriginal. Pwani are 2nd century and Sabaki are 9th and 10th century on the coastal strip.

Your finding would be more valuable if you or Apollo could document it. All Apollo has is a single mixed individual to compare that 10-12% to, who may or may not be Eyle. There's also other af Helledi speakers and the Reer Manyo who should be tested. Apollo is hugely jumping the gun.

 

[Apollo]

Absolutely no one is claiming the Bantus are aboriginal. Pwani are 2nd century and Sabaki are 9th and 10th century on the coastal strip.

Your finding would be more valuable if you or Apollo could document it. All Apollo has is a single mixed individual to compare that 10-12% to, who may or may not be Eyle. There's also other af Helledi speakers and the Reer Manyo who should be tested. Apollo is hugely jumping the gun.

The Pwani 2nd century claim is highly dubious (no written records back then) and it cannot be proven that the majority of today's Somalia Bantus can be traced to them.

Moreover, all of them have mixed with the enslaved Bantus, so yes, they do ALL descend from recent foreign slaves.

 

[World]

Muh Native Bantus

10,000 slaves were being exported every year across the Juba river to the Shabelle plantations in the 19th century.

 

[Grant]

The Pwani 2nd century claim is highly dubious (no written records back then) and it cannot be proven that the majority of today's Somalia Bantus can be traced to them.

Moreover, all of them have mixed with the enslaved Bantus, so yes, they do ALL descend from recent foreign slaves.

No written records? Who else does that apply to?

The Bantu groups are quite distinct and have been so since time immemorial:

Once they escaped or the Italians freed them, the Bantu slaves joined members of their own tribes in the Lower Jubba.. The Mushunguli were in such numbers they were able to retain their own language. The others chose to use Maay as more than one tribal group was needed per village.. Together they are the Gosha. that pink area in the lower Jubba.

The Gabawein, Shibelli, Makaane, Shidle, etc. are the immigrant groups, those Pwani and Sabaki that moved up the rivers to avoid the pastoral immigrants. They may have had some slave additions, but certainly not a majority, and probably not even a significant number. It's a lousy argument.

 

[Apollo]

They are not distinct from each other. They all interbreed with each other. Many of them no longer even live in their rural regions but have moved to cities where they intermarry across regional boundaries.

I don't care what percentage it is of their ancestry as they ALL descend from recent foreign slaves and are therefore are less native to the Horn of Africa than ethnic Somalis.

 

[Grant]

Muh Native Bantus

View attachment 75440

10,000 slaves were being exported every year across the Juba river to the Shabelle plantations in the 19th century.

Duh.....

Go back. Get the link for here and read the rest of it.

Slaves were being moved overland to the Middle East because the British were seizing all slaves on the high seas, even freeing many of them at the Jubba to join Nassib Bundo. The slaves were not being used in Somalia and that phase of the slave trade did not last long..

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

None of us are native to the Horn of Africa let alone Somalia. Bantus are West African and Somalis are Nilotic/Middle Eastern mutts. A Bantu i(non slave decedent) is no less native to Shabelle then a Raxaweyn is.

 

[Apollo]

None of us are native to the Horn of Africa let alone Somalia. Bantus are West African and Somalis are Nilotic/Middle Eastern mutts. A Bantu i(non slave decedent) is no less native to Shabelle then a Raxaweyn is.

The ethnic Somali lived in Somalia first and are therefore more native to it than a Bantu. Somalis are even closer to 3,000 year old North Tanzanians than most Tanzanians are today. Forget Somalia. Most of East Africa belongs to Cushites.

Northeast Sudan/Eritrea is not far from Somalia.

Somalia belongs to the Cushites who are the rightful owners of it.

Bantus got over twenty two countries.* They have zero claim to Somalia. They are guests.

*Lol, apparently Jews also use this argument against Palestinians (you lot got 22 Arab League countries), hehe.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

The ethnic Somali lived in Somalia first and are therefore more native to it than a Bantu. Somalis are even closer to 3,000 year old North Tanzanians than most Tanzanians are today. Forget Somalia. Most of East Africa belongs to Cushites.

Northeast Sudan/Eritrea is not far from Somalia.

Somalia belongs to the Cushites who are the rightful owners of it.

Bantus got over twenty two countries.* They have zero claim to Somalia. They are guests.

*Lol, apparently Jews also use this argument against Palestinians (you lot got 22 Arab League countries), hehe.

aaaannd middle East Levant. We are partly not even from the continent to begin with lol. All I am saying is that Somalia is Somali and y'all should regonize the Bantus (before the slaves) also migrated there in the 5-9th centuries.

 

[Apollo]

aaaannd middle East Levant. We are partly not even from the continent to begin with lol. All I am saying is that Somalia is Somali and y'all should regonize the Bantus (before the slaves) also migrated there in the 5-9th centuries.

The majority of their Niger-Congo ancestry stems from enslaved Zanj from the Swahili coast. I am not buying this fake news of natural Bantu migration into Somalia. It was very minimal at best and is not the source of the majority of their ancestry.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

The majority of their Niger-Congo ancestry stems from enslaved Zanj from the Swahili coast. I am not buying this fake news of natural Bantu migration into Somalia. It was very minimal at best and is not the source of the majority of their ancestry.

East Africa belongs to the Cushites. West Africa was the land of the Bantus. They do not own East Africa.

They still would have some ancestry from those early Bantus.

East Africa belongs to the Khosian and the dead Hunter Gatherers. Everyone else are invaders.

 

[Kurolady08]

I thought the Somali Bantus were descended from Somalis fighting them when they were invading Tanzania ? The Bantu expansion sounds a nice way to say invading other Africans to me.....

 

[Grant]

Screw Bantus, those cunts already have 22 countries.

That's a lousy, sick, political argument; and you know it.

 

[Grant]

I think Bantus reached the Small strip in southeastern Somalia sometime between the 7-9 century AD through the Swahili slave trade.

They certainly aren't indigenous to Somalia if that is what you are suggesting @Grant and probably displaced some proto Somali speakers in that area

The Swahili cities had to wait for Arab/Persian settlement and aren't even started until the 10th century.

http://en.lisapoyakama.org/the-swahili-civilization/

The Omani slave trade from Zanzibar that reached Somalia did not begin until 1800.

https://sovereignnations.com/2018/04/30/history-arab-slave-trade-africa/

"From 1800 to 1890, between 25,000–50,000 Bantu slaves are thought to have been sold from the slave market of Zanzibar to the Somali coast. Most of the slaves were from the Majindo, Makua, Nyasa, Yao, Zalama, Zaramo and Zigua ethnic groups of Tanzania, Mozambique and Malawi. Collectively, these Bantu groups are known as Mushunguli, which is a term taken from Mzigula, the Zigua tribe’s word for “people” (the word holds multiple implied meanings including “worker”, “foreigner”, and “slave”).
Read more at https://sovereignnations.com/2018/04/30/history-arab-slave-trade-africa/#9BryDGYoHBvYd8PT.99

According to Besteman and Cassanelli, the previous slave trade in Somalia involved only Oromo slaves.

 

[Gadhwayne]

There are attitudes on this site that support expelling the Bantus and Benadiris. I consider it a worthwhile project to point out that certain of the Minorities preceded the Samaale migrations and also have land claims. There is archaeological evidence that (Bantu) Sabaki speakers got as far north as Gezira, as part of the Bantu Expansion, before being pushed back south by Oromo and Somaloid stocks coming from the north and west. The largest single archaeological excavation in the country, The Bur Ecological and archaeological Project (BEAP), explores the Buur Heybe remains going back 20,000 years.

I am not anti-Somali. I am anti-false Samaale claims intended to deny other Somalis their legitimate heritage. Claiming these folks are extinct, or that their claims are worthless because they were once slaves, does not get it with me. Among other things, the Eyle defeated the Jidle, Maadanle and Ajuraan and were a major Geledi ally; and the Gosha beat the socks off the combined Ogaden and kept them away from the Jubba until the Italians came along.

I put Samaale Supremicism in the same boat with White Supremicism, and it offends me.

And, don't forget these AfMaxaaTidhi suprrmacists who are antiGoosha/antiBaantu often don't deal witn Gosha and / or learned their racism and racial theories abroad

@Grant

Kindly stop with your Bantu derailments. This thread is about the African ancestry of ethnic Somalis (of Cushitic origin). Bantus are off-topic to this discussion and are not of any relevance to us.

There seems to be a confusion among many folks. not you. they mislabel any of the groups that speak NigerCongo language groups as Baantuu and throw in NileSaharan speakers too including npnSoomaaliyoid southern Soomaaliya communities that may have originally been nonBaantuu as well

 

[Apollo]

And, don't forget these AfMaxaaTidhi suprrmacists who are antiGoosha/antiBaantu often don't deal witn Gosha and / or learned their racism and racial theories abroad

Nonsense, the social oppression of these groups goes back for hundreds of years and has nothing to do with diaspora Somalis.

There seems to be a confusion among many folks. not you. they mislabel any of the groups that speak NigerCongo language groups as Baantuu and throw in NileSaharan speakers too including npnSoomaaliyoid southern Soomaaliya communities that may have originally been nonBaantuu as well

There is no evidence for that. All the outliers in genetic studies from Somalia move in the direction of Bantu populations. If you don't believe me, ask @EDsomali for comfirmation.

Only in NFD (not Somalia), have I seen legitimate evidence of Nilotes (mainly Maasai/Samburu types, not even Dinka types) being enslaved by Somalis, but then again this is not Somalia. Most Somali Bantus also look nothing like Samburus, so I doubt this is their primary origin.

Nilotic or Southwest Ethiopian populations were not brought to Somalia in large numbers. 95% of the enslaved Sub-Saharan groups came from the Bantu areas of Tanzania/Malawi/Mozambique.

 

[Grant]

Nonsense, the social oppression of these groups goes back for hundreds of years and has nothing to do with diaspora Somalis.



There is no evidence for that. All the outliers in genetic studies from Somalia move in the direction of Bantu populations. If you don't believe me, ask @EDsomali for comfirmation.

Only in NFD (not Somalia), have I seen legitimate evidence of Nilotes (mainly Maasai/Samburu types, not even Dinka types) being enslaved by Somalis, but then again this is not Somalia. Most Somali Bantus also look nothing like Samburus, so I doubt this is their primary origin.

Nilotic or Southwest Ethiopian populations were not brought to Somalia in large numbers. 95% of the enslaved Sub-Saharan groups came from the Bantu areas of Tanzania/Malawi/Mozambique.

The Omani/Zanzibari slave trade from Tanzania, Mozambique, etc. came after 1800. The slave sources prior to that time were largely in Ethiopia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Ethiopia

'The Indian Ocean slave trade was multi-directional and changed over time. To meet the demand for menial labor, slaves sold to Muslim slave traders by local slave raiders, Ethiopian chiefs and kings from the interior, were sold over the centuries to customers in Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, the Persian Gulf, India, the Far East, the Indian Ocean islands, Somalia and Ethiopia.[44]

During the second half of the 19th century and early 20th century, slaves shipped from Ethiopia had a high demand in the markets of the Arabian peninsula and elsewhere in the Middle East. They were mostly domestic servants, though some served as agricultural labourers, or as water carriers, herdsmen, seamen, camel drivers, porters, washerwomen, masons, shop assistants and cooks. The most fortunate of the men worked as the officials or bodyguards of the ruler and emirs, or as business managers for rich merchants. They enjoyed significant personal freedom and occasionally held slaves of their own. Besides Javanese and Chinese girls brought in from the Far East, young Ethiopian females were among the most valued concubines. The most beautiful ones often enjoyed a wealthy lifestyle, and became mistresses of the elite or even mothers to rulers.[45] The principal sources of these slaves, all of whom passed through Matamma, Massawa and Tadjoura on the Red Sea, were the southwestern parts of Ethiopia, in the Oromo and Sidama country.[3]

The most important outlet for Ethiopian slaves was undoubtedly Massawa. Trade routes from Gondar, located in the Ethiopian Highlands led to Massawa via Adwa. Slave drivers from Gondar took 100-200 slaves in a single trip to Massawa, the majority of whom were female.[3]

A small number of eunuchs were also acquired by the slave traders in the southern parts of Ethiopia.[46] Mainly consisting of young children, they led the most privileged lives and commanded the highest prices in the Islamic global markets because of their rarity. They served in the harems of the affluent or guarded holy sites.[45] Some of the young boys had become eunuchs due to the battle traditions that were at the time endemic to Arsi and Borena of southern Ethiopia. However, the majority came from the Badi Folia principality in the Jimma region, situated to the southeast of Enarea. The local Oromo rulers were so disturbed by the custom that they drove out of their kingdoms all who practiced it.[46]"

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The Pwani Bantu, part of the Bantu expansion and not the slave trade, were in the southern Somalia coastal area by the first century AD. Another Bantu group, the Sabaki, reached Gezira by the ninth. Most were driven south by the Oromo and Somali migrations from the north, and by the Gallo Madow wars. Those who fled up the rivers became the Gabaweyn, Shebelle, Makanne, Shidle, etc., some of whom became clients of the Ajuraan. They lost their Bantu language, but were never chattel slaves.

The chattel slaves were brought by the Omanis in a number between 25 and 50K, and most were absorbed by the Gosha in the Lower and Middle Jubba. Today, they are the Gosha and Mushunguli.

 

[Apollo]

@Grant

Arabs have been in areas near Rhapta, Mozambique doing the Indian Ocean slave trade for nearly one and a half millennia. Bantu slaves in Basra Mesopotamia were revolting in the 800s CE. A thousand years before the 1800s slave trade. When Vasco da Gama arrived in Southeast Africa in the late 1500s he met Arabians engaged in the Southeast African slave trade.

Some of the Bantu slaves Arabs bought down there they let go in Kismayo, Mogadishu, and even Soqotra in exchange for food and refueling on their way to Arabia.

But whatever, keep believing your false version of history of proud Bantu farmers reaching Somalia naturally.

 

[Grant]

@Grant

Arabs have been in areas near Rhapta, Mozambique doing the Indian Ocean slave trade for nearly one and a half millennia. Bantu slaves in Basra Mesopotamia were revolting in the 800s CE. A thousand years before the 1800s slave trade. When Vasco da Gama arrived in Southeast Africa in the late 1500s he met Arabians engaged in the Southeast African slave trade.

Some of the Bantu slaves Arabs bought down there they let go in Kismayo, Mogadishu, and even Soqotra in exchange for food and refueling on their way to Arabia.

But whatever, keep believing your false version of history of proud Bantu farmers reaching Somalia naturally.

I realize this doesn't fit your agenda:

https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr...d_slavery_on_the_Swahili_coast-T._Vernet_.pdf

"So far historical sources are too few to estimate the scale of the Swahili coast slave trade before the sixteenth century. The famous Zanj rebellion in Iraq (869–883) is often cited to attest the antiquity and importance of the slave trade at this time and its decline after the uprising. 17 A rarely cited study by G. H. Talhami, however, has shown that slaves imported from the Swahili coast formed a very small minority in these rebellious.18 Moreover, most of Africans involved came from other regions of Africa or were of free status. According to Talhami, Arab and Persian geographers did not mention slave trading between the East African coast and the Arabian peninsula before the tenth century. Buzurg ibn Shahriyar, who wrote around 950, is the first to state that Zanj slaves were caught or purchased in the area between Sofala and Zanzibar to be sold in Oman. "

"Arab traders captured Zanj to enslave them, but generally speaking, medieval geographers rarely mentioned the slave trade on the Swahili coast, although they often did so for other regions, particularly western Africa.19 For instance, Ibn Battuta reported the existence of slaves in Kilwa in 1331, but not their trade.20 Thus before the sixteenth century most of the slaves shipped by merchants from southern Arabia probably came from the Horn. A recent study based on the exceptional Rasulid administrative documentation has shown that the port town of Zayla, in present day Somaliland, was the coastal terminus of major slave routes from the Ethiopian highland. Slaves, including eunuchs, were then shipped to Aden on small ships. This maritime route between Zayla and Aden was very prosperous between the thirteenth and the fifteenth centuries. Conversely the Rasulid documentation tells very few about Zanj slaves.21 Between the tenth and fifteenth centuries the presence of African slaves is documented in Arabia and the Persian Gulf, as well as in China and India in smaller numbers, although it is difficult to determine their origins, due to the ambiguity of the word Zanj. 22 Most of them seem to have come from the Horn of Africa or Nubia.23 Thus, by the end of the fifteenth century the slave trade was already an established practice on the Swahili coast, probably continuous for around five centuries, but in relatively small proportions in comparison with other trade commodities or other parts of Africa. The Swahili Slave Trade from Madagascar to Arabia in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries Portuguese accounts are our main sources for the sixteenth and seventeenth century period; yet they do not mention much about the slave trade since Portuguese merchants were not as involved in the trade in slaves as they were in other commodities like gold or ivory. This relative lack of evidence about the slave trade, and the fact that what trade did exist was centered on the Comoro Islands and Madagascar, has probably resulted in the underestimation of the Swahili slave trade during that era. Nevertheless, slave trading was noteworthy during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, mainly due to a steady demand for slaves in Arabia and the Persian Gulf. These slaves were Islamized and assigned various roles, such as servants, soldiers, guards, craftsmen, sailors, dockers, or pearl divers in the Persian Gulf as well as concubines who seem to have been widespread.24 Slaves were also employed for agricultural tasks, notably in...."

The vast majority of the slaves before 1800 came from Ethiopia and left Somalia through Zayla. They are not the same as the Omani imports to Somalia after 1800.