Atheist have no morals, they have no obligations to anyone.

[Life]

Since when did Islam being a thing anymore.

I don't believe in objective morality.

Morality is fundamentally influenced by external influences and experiences. What my moral compass deem as wrong might not be wrong according to your moral compass. Reality is if objective morality existed then we would see it but we don't. what we can clearly see is that different societies have different standards on what they consider to be wrong or right. In some cultures having sexual intercourse with donkeys is allowed and deemed as good whilst in other cultures having sexual intercourse with animals, in general, might earn you years in jail.

 

[Lum]

I don't believe in objective morality.

Morality is fundamentally influenced by external influences and experiences. What my moral compass deem as wrong might not be wrong according to your moral compass. Reality is if objective morality existed then we would see it but we don't. what we can clearly see is that different societies have different standards on what they consider to be wrong or right. In some cultures having sexual intercourse with donkeys is allowed and deemed as good whilst in other cultures having sexual intercourse with animals, in general, might earn you years in jail.

Why? Society always change their moral standards.

 

[Life]

Why? Society always change their moral standards.

Exactly, moral standards are relative to time. If there was an objective morality then it would be applicable thru out all times and stay relevant.

 

[Lum]

Exactly, moral standards are relative to time. If there was an objective morality then it would be applicable thru out all times and stay relevant.

That sentence open up for alot of degenerate behavior to take place in society. Objective morality exists. It’s applicable through every time and place.

 

[P4$t0]

I don't believe in objective morality.

Morality is fundamentally influenced by external influences and experiences. What my moral compass deem as wrong might not be wrong according to your moral compass. Reality is if objective morality existed then we would see it but we don't. what we can clearly see is that different societies have different standards on what they consider to be wrong or right. In some cultures having sexual intercourse with donkeys is allowed and deemed as good whilst in other cultures having sexual intercourse with animals, in general, might earn you years in jail.

Exactly, moral standards are relative to time. If there was an objective morality then it would be applicable thru out all times and stay relevant.

Bruh, That's literally what Islam is. If you believe in Islam then you should know that Islam is, was, should and always will be the basis for your moral framework. After all, God sent the Prophet(SAW) to perfect good character and conduct.

“It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.” [Al-Qur’an 2:177]

And I didn't even go to the sunnah and hadith yet.

 

[Lum]

Bruh, That's literally what Islam is. If you believe in Islam then you should know that Islam is, was, should and always will be the basis for your moral framework. After all, God sent the Prophet(SAW) to perfect good character and conduct.

“It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.” [Al-Qur’an 2:177]

And I didn't even go to the sunnah and hadith yet.

Indeed brother.

 

[Life]

Bruh, That's literally what Islam is. If you believe in Islam then you should know that Islam is, was, should and always will be the basis for your moral framework. After all, God sent the Prophet(SAW) to perfect good character and conduct.

“It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.” [Al-Qur’an 2:177]

And I didn't even go to the sunnah and hadith yet.

I don't think you understand. We have already established that all human have an innate moral sensor. If the god of Islam created us with an in-built moral sensor shouldn't that moral sensor already fundamentally be the same across the board. and shouldn't that moral reasoning also be applicable thru out time? Hundreds of years ago it was wrong for a woman to work and now it is perfectly normal. Gods power and objectivity shouldn't be dependent on whether people believe in him or not. If objective morality existed irrespective of one's faith there should be a common thread in everyone's moral compass whether they were theist or not. Another thing we have established in this thread is that morality is influenced by external factors which makes it subjective.

 

[P4$t0]

No it's not. do you believe everyone irrespective of their fait


I don't think you understand. We have already established that all human have an innate moral sensor. If the god of Islam created us with an in-built moral sensor shouldn't that moral sensor already fundamentally be the same across the board. and shouldn't that moral reasoning also be applicable thru out time? Hundreds of years ago it was wrong for a woman to work and now it is perfectly normal. Gods power and objectivity shouldn't be dependent on whether people believe in him or not. If objective morality existed irrespective of one's faith there should be a common thread in everyone's moral compass whether they were theist or not. Another thing we have established in this thread is that morality is influenced by external factors which makes it subjective.

Okay, you're gonna have to explain further, you say we already have a built in predisposition to morality. But back then people were still capable of immorality?

 

[Life]

Okay, you're gonna have to explain further, you say we already have a built in predisposition to morality. But back then people were still capable of immorality?

Morality is relevant to time. The way the society you live in looks and the values your culture upholds can play a deciding roll in making a distinction between right and wrong. We know that societies changes and values evolve which also means that morality overtime also evolves. What we consider to be immoral today wasn't considered to be immoral yesterday. People from back then were responsible for taking immoral actions according to modern standards of morality. An ex. Slavery back then was justified by the aggressors however these days there is a consensus that slavery is wrong

 

[P4$t0]

Morality is relevant to time. The way the society you live in looks and the values your culture upholds can play a deciding roll in making a distinction between right and wrong. We know that societies changes and values evolve which also means that morality overtime also evolves. What we consider to be immoral today wasn't considered to be immoral yesterday. People from back then were responsible for taking immoral actions according to modern standards of morality. An ex. Slavery back then was justified by the aggressors however these days there is a consensus that slavery is wrong

You do know that Islam condones slavery, right?

 

[Ayubi]

Okay, you're gonna have to explain further, you say we already have a built in predisposition to morality. But back then people were still capable of immorality?

I think this girl said she was "quranist" in another thread. She's slowly inclining towards misleading thoughts like "Objective morality doesn't exist" or sympathising with the Atheist opinion. The reason she rejects the hadith is because there's things written there she doesn't like, basically cherry picking the religion.

 

[Tukraq]

I don't agree with you. I believe All humans (except psychos maybe) Have a moral compass ingrained in them. I also believe that one's morality gets influenced by external factors like religion, culture and the environment you live in.

but why would they? in their view it all dosent matter anyways, might as well not have a moral compass in that case

 

[Tukraq]

It’s the biggest lie ever told that religion keeps people from committing heinous crimes.

The truth is we’re capable of great evil.
https://themuslimvibe.com/muslim-cu...-in-alleged-hate-crime-in-medina-saudi-arabia

religion gives you a moral reasoning not to, without it there is no moral reasoning, really why wouldn't you commit heinous crimes daily honestly outside fear of repercussion

 

[Tukraq]

Do you really need religion or laws to know that killing your own hooyo is wrong.

U by nature default born to know that automaticly.

I disagree, theres no default there, in an atheist world view why would it even matter?

 

[Life]

but why would they? in their view it all dosent matter anyways, might as well not have a moral compass in that case

I already explained it in an earlier post but in short, people always believe in something whether that something is a religion, theory or an ideology. and that Something will take religions place. Also, what do you mean it doesn't matter? at the end of the day, they are alive and are humans. They kinda have to care.

 

[Life]

I think this girl said she was "quranist" in another thread. She's slowly inclining towards misleading thoughts like "Objective morality doesn't exist" or sympathising with the Atheist opinion. The reason she rejects the hadith is because there's things written there she doesn't like, basically cherry picking the religion.

I considered myself a quranist a long time ago in hopes to make sense of Islam and religion overall. And yes to a certain degree I was rejecting the hadith because there are things in there that I disliked but mostly I rejected it because it actually makes sense to take your source from one book only.

atheism and theist are basically two sides of the same coin. I think claiming my self know whether God exists or that he doesn't exist is too extreme for me. I realise and accept that, in all honesty, I will never know until I die if Islam is right. I, for the time being, don't fully oppose the idea of a creator however I feel like that "creator" is not what we humans define as a creator and I don't believe that we humans are the centre of everything.

As to the subject at hand "objective morality" I actually fully believe that it doesn't exist. I don't believe I am misleading anyone and I think that I did the best I could to present my arguments. Read thru all of my arguments on this thread and then tell me what specifically you disagree with.

 

[Life]

You do know that Islam condones slavery, right?

Islam addresses slavery thru the Quran and hadith extensively assuming its existence as apart of the society the prophet lived in. Islam view slavery-like an exceptional condition and restrict it in its scope. Also, maybe slavery is "condoned" in Islam because it actually benefitted the prophet?!

 

[Omar del Sur]

Islam addresses slavery thru the Quran and hadith extensively assuming its existence as apart of the society the prophet lived in. Islam view slavery-like an exceptional condition and restrict it in its scope. Also, maybe slavery is "condoned" in Islam because it actually benefitted the prophet?!

so you are non-Muslim it seems

also, pretty much everyone accepted slavery back then

 

[Omar del Sur]

I considered myself a quranist a long time ago in hopes to make sense of Islam and religion overall. And yes to a certain degree I was rejecting the hadith because there are things in there that I disliked but mostly I rejected it because it actually makes sense to take your source from one book only.

atheism and theist are basically two sides of the same coin. I think claiming my self know whether God exists or that he doesn't exist is too extreme for me. I realise and accept that, in all honesty, I will never know until I die if Islam is right. I, for the time being, don't fully oppose the idea of a creator however I feel like that "creator" is not what we humans define as a creator and I don't believe that we humans are the centre of everything.

As to the subject at hand "objective morality" I actually fully believe that it doesn't exist. I don't believe I am misleading anyone and I think that I did the best I could to present my arguments. Read thru all of my arguments on this thread and then tell me what specifically you disagree with.

so according to your logic

murder is not wrong

you say that objective morality does not exist

so that would mean murder is not objectively wrong

 

[Radical]

so according to your logic

murder is not wrong

you say that objective morality does not exist

so that would mean murder is not objectively wrong

I'm Muslim but believe objective morality can still exist without religion, we can do this through empathy and compassion, the act of protecting your kin and preserving your species is known even in the animal kingdom.

The only believe that every human who's ever lived shares with absolutely certainty is not killing your loved ones and that companionship is a necessity. Our species would be long extinct without those fundamentals

Everything else as @Life said is subjective. And molded by culture, history and religion, why is it wrong for Americans to believe eating dogs in China is bad when their diet consists of beef which is sacred in India?

So morality is both objective and subjective.