Are We (Somalis) Striving To Be A Society Like This One?

[Samaalic Era]

@Samaalic Era

I digress to that statement. Somalia never had a “golden age”, but its best years were when the late dictator Mohamed Siad Barre ruled Somalia. There were more educated Somalis, women were treated with dignity and equality, people were more prosperous and the Wahhabi scholars were silenced. Not a better era. I think @Suldaanka will agree with me on this one, obviously for different reasons, clan-wise.

Siad Barre era is not the Golden Age. The Golden Age was for Somalia was from 1300s-1600s. We had Colonies. Wealthy kingdoms and great historical figures



@Suldaanka

You read us hadiths and at the same time lie for fake pride.

Over 1.5 mln Somalis still face acute food crisis: UN report.

https://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2019/...s_still_face_acute_food_crisis_un_report.aspx

 

[Baki]

Its ironic that Somalia's Golden Age was through Islam and its darkes through adopting western form of govt.

Something to think about

Somali Golden age ?

We never had one, and the turmoil in Somalia is not because of adopting western form of governance but more to do with tribal conflict and in the past two decade or so taking on the extreme form of Islam from the Saudis since they been pushing their ideology and funding their types of Mosques, to top that of people were already illetarate all of this mixed makes for a explosive and dangerous environment.

 

[AussieHustler]

According to people who havent been on the ground. I have been to 6 gobols on my last trip. Its the un and world bank gimmick to get money.
As for siyaad barre was a darood and that is all we share. Siyaad Barre was the best we had but there were religious issues. After his fall did somalis really understand islam. Why do you care for wahabbi or sufi or takfiir. Choosing what type of islam would cause the most harm to us. You enjoy our downfall and divisions. Stop talking about islam

@Suldaanka

Do you reckon it has rained and this impending drought is all a lie? Conspiracy!!! What laws did Siad Barre adopt to be the best leader? How can Siad Barre (RIP) be the best when he arrested or killed so many of your Salafi scholars? Qabiil baa kaa guuxaya!!! Typical 7th Century mentality!!

Sxb, if you want Somali women to get permission from male guardians to travel, then you are advocating Saudi Culture and far from Islam. Why can't the majority of Indonesian and Malaysian Muslims practice such laws? Are you a better Muslim than them? You haven't answered me why you support the MAG slogan and Trump? Is it a smokescreen or just the rantings of a confused bloke?

 

[Suldaanka]

@Suldaanka

Do you reckon it has rained and this impending drought is all a lie? Conspiracy!!! What laws did Siad Barre adopt to be the best leader? How can Siad Barre (RIP) be the best when he arrested or killed so many of your Salafi scholars? Qabiil baa kaa guuxaya!!! Typical 7th Century mentality!!

Sxb, if you want Somali women to get permission from male guardians to travel, then you are advocating Saudi Culture and far from Islam. Why can't the majority of Indonesian and Malaysian Muslims practice such laws? Are you a better Muslim than them? You haven't answered me why you support the MAG slogan and Trump? Is it a smokescreen or just the rantings of a confused bloke?

Yes im advocating for 7 century mentality. Somalia kama waraysanayo because im more informed. Second Aun Siyaad Barre made mistakes because he was human. The imams aun should have tooken another approach lakiin they were right.
The reason you are a gaal is because u base your values and religion or lack of based on western standards. Islam is perfect and is complete. If a group of muslim dont follow it thoroughly im not going to base my beliefs on them. That is just stupid. If the way Malaysians are good why not follow them.

 

[Suldaanka]

@Suldaanka

Do you reckon it has rained and this impending drought is all a lie? Conspiracy!!! What laws did Siad Barre adopt to be the best leader? How can Siad Barre (RIP) be the best when he arrested or killed so many of your Salafi scholars? Qabiil baa kaa guuxaya!!! Typical 7th Century mentality!!

Sxb, if you want Somali women to get permission from male guardians to travel, then you are advocating Saudi Culture and far from Islam. Why can't the majority of Indonesian and Malaysian Muslims practice such laws? Are you a better Muslim than them? You haven't answered me why you support the MAG slogan and Trump? Is it a smokescreen or just the rantings of a confused bloke?

Again believing in my prophet isnt saudi culture. I just showed u hadith yet you still deny it and try to turn uninformed muslims to hate the religion

 

[Aden Ciisman]

Now u want to think how the prophet should have done. You should have been choosen as a prophet. Read the quran and sunnah.

Obviously you fell some type of way about this topic, so I’m gonna stop here.

 

[Suldaanka]

Obviously you fell some type of way about this topic, so I’m gonna stop here.

No dont stop. Its good to have dialogue. When you have a nonbeliever telling us how we should act especially after he left the fold. That should bother you

 

[AussieHustler]

Yes im advocating for 7 century mentality. Somalia kama waraysanayo because im more informed. Second Aun Siyaad Barre made mistakes because he was human. The imams aun should have tooken another approach lakiin they were right.
The reason you are a gaal is because u base your values and religion or lack of based on western standards. Islam is perfect and is complete. If a group of muslim dont follow it thoroughly im not going to base my beliefs on them. That is just stupid. If the way Malaysians are good why not follow them.

@Suldaanka

Sheekadaa waa "Cali gar leh, Ceeydiidn gar leh". You said, Siad Barre was the best Somali leader, what laws did he rule on Somalia? Let me give you some tips, he wasn't fond of religious laws. Why do you support MAG and Trump?

Again believing in my prophet isnt saudi culture. I just showed u hadith yet you still deny it and try to turn uninformed muslims to hate the religion

The Saudis used Hadith justifications why they banned Saudi women to drive, do you agree with these hadiths too?

 

[Ramen]

I admire saudiarabia

smart mfs

 

[Suldaanka]

Again i said Siad Barre was the best we had but had issues that would have been corrected. I support the conservative values as they align closer with my dhaqan and deen. You had men in tge bathoom with women.

@Suldaanka

Sheekadaa waa "Cali gar leh, Ceeydiidn gar leh". You said, Siad Barre was the best Somali leader, what laws did he rule on Somalia? Let me give you some tips, he wasn't fond of religious laws. Why do you support MAG and Trump?




The Saudi used Hadith justifications why they banned Saudi women to drive, do you agree with these hadiths too?

 

[AussieHustler]

Again i said Siad Barre was the best we had but had issues that would have been corrected. I support the conservative values as they align closer with my dhaqan and deen. You had men in tge bathoom with women.

@Suldaanka

What makes him the best in terms of religion because Siad Barre believed in scientific socialism than in Islam? You are advocating for Salafi traditions while defending for qabiil reasons someone who disliked religious laws and Hadiths. Don’t you think you come across as a “hypocrite”?

 

[Baki]

@Suldaanka

What makes him the best in terms of religion because Siad Barre believed more in scientific socialism than in Islam? You are advocating for Salafi traditions while defending for qabiil reasons someone who disliked religious laws and Hadiths. Don’t you think you come across as a “hypocrite”?

Cognitive dissonance

 

[Samaalic Era]

Somali Golden age ?

We never had one, and the turmoil in Somalia is not because of adopting western form of governance but more to do with tribal conflict and in the past two decade or so taking on the extreme form of Islam from the Saudis since they been pushing their ideology and funding their types of Mosques, to top that of people were already illetarate all of this mixed makes for a explosive and dangerous environment.

Just because you dont know your own history doesnt mean there was no Golden Age. The self hate is evident. This is what all Gaal-rac are known for

 

[Baki]

Just because you dont know your own history doesnt mean there was no Golden Age. The self hate is evident. This is what all Gaal-rac are known for

Typical response, I'm very well versed in Somali history, and we never had a Golden age only delusional person would think so, back then we were more divided along qabill lines then we are today, hence why it's so hard to unite Somalis till this day, or are you talking about the trading and the trade route ? so because we are positioned in a strategic position and we were lucky to trade back then because of it, in your eyes that was the Golden age then you are even more delusional then i thought.

Self hate Gaal-rac take that sheeko caruureyd somewhere else, I'm a realistic person who has both feet firm on the ground of reality, not what ever fantasy make belief bubble you and your like live in.

 

[Gibiin-Udug]

@AussieHustler how many non-Muslim women travelers have been killed while traveling alone? Hundreds upon hundreds...


There’s a reason why Islam requires a woman to have muhram to travel with.

 

[AussieHustler]

@AussieHustler how many non-Muslim women travelers have been killed while traveling alone? Hundreds upon hundreds...


There’s a reason why Islam requires a woman to have muhram to travel with.

@Reiko

The muhram or wali is more than a travelling companion, an illiterate man will be in charge of your decisions of your whole life. It is what the Saudi culture is based upon. You do work with men, don't you? He could force you not to. You drive your own car and meet your friends for dinners, movies and other social outings? He will be the chaperone, only if he approves your outing. He is your legal and physical guardian. You can't travel anywhere unless he permits it and agrees with you. Why would a responsible grown-up woman need a man to be in-charge of her life-decisions? It seems that many Somali women don't like the freedoms they have in the West and would rather live in Saudi Arabia under these repressive conditions. If that is what we (Somalis) are striving for, so be it.

Watch the documentary and see the issues raised by these Saudi women.

 

[Sakiin]

@AussieHustler how many non-Muslim women travelers have been killed while traveling alone? Hundreds upon hundreds...


There’s a reason why Islam requires a woman to have muhram to travel with.

Exactly. Has no one here watched Taken? My mum used to say to my sisters "take heed don't travel without a Mahram because your dad is no Liam neeson " lool

In Islam travelling with a Mahram is for the safety and well-being of our sisters. A lot of people saying 7th century...saying it is backwards have been deceived by modern technology.

Catching a plane from London straight to Stockholm is a lot more safe..straight forward and that's why the whole Mahram idea is deemed irrelevant by some. Laakin there are many other situations where a woman is a lot safer with a Mahram.

 

[Aden Ciisman]

No dont stop. Its good to have dialogue. When you have a nonbeliever telling us how we should act especially after he left the fold. That should bother you

I’m not sure if you mean me with a nonbeliever but I’m muslim and proud! but I also believe that the Quran leaves a lot of room to interpret and mostly we use the Hadith and Sunnah to fill the gaps. But if we can’t 100% do that we use qiyas. The way I understand that law of mahram is this, and I know I am just a servant of Allah and do not claim it’s the right way, I always took it as the travel shouldn’t be longer than 48h. Because in the prophets time they indeed traveled far longer than 48h to go from A to B and that a woman shouldn’t travel that long alone without a mahram had safety reasons. And if a woman know travels longer than 48 here also should be a mahram

 

[Yeeyi]

Are people seriously talking deen in a forum.
Like no jk, are people being serious when talking about deen here, or is it just banter
No people should talk about Islam without the knowledge of Islam, especially if your doubting your belief

 

[NFD]

There's nothing Islamically to support the Saudi style idea of a mehrem. Custom and culture play a role in how religion is interpreted.

As it pertains to a mehrem when travelling it's important to look at the hikma behind the rule. There's another hadith where the prophet pbuh speaks in amazement at a future event where a women is able to travel and do hajj freely. The idea being that it was totally safe. This is why some ulama are ok with women travelling to certain safe areas or even doing the hajj with a group of women.

In the hadith of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, to `Adiy ibn Hatim we read: “If you live long, you will see the woman travel from Hirah (a city in Iraq) to circumambulate the Ka`bah fearing none but Allah.” (Reported by al-Bukhari)

 

[Gibiin-Udug]

@Reiko

The muhram or wali is more than a travelling companion, an illiterate man will be in charge of your decisions of your whole life. It is what the Saudi culture is based upon. You do work with men, don't you? He could force you not to. You drive your own car and meet your friends for dinners, movies and other social outings? He will be the chaperone, only if he approves your outing. He is your legal and physical guardian. You can't travel anywhere unless he permits it and agrees with you. Why would a responsible grown-up woman need a man to be in-charge of her life-decisions? It seems that many Somali women don't like the freedoms they have in the West and would rather live in Saudi Arabia under these repressive conditions. If that is what we (Somalis) are striving for, so be it.

Watch the documentary and see the issues raised by these Saudi women.

Illiterate or not, he’s still man and will fight for me.


Where as you will just watch me get hauled off by strange men while screaming

You can fight them Reiko, I believe in you. Equal rights and you screaming like a little girl.

Smh

@Suldaanka might have dropped out of high school, works under the table as a dugsi teacher, claims benefits while claiming to be unemployed and only takes showers on fridays but he would never ever stand and watch men harass women.

That’s the difference between you snowflakes and Muslim men.

 

[Sakiin]

@Reiko

The muhram or wali is more than a travelling companion, an illiterate man will be in charge of your decisions of your whole life. It is what the Saudi culture is based upon. You do work with men, don't you? He could force you not to. You drive your own car and meet your friends for dinners, movies and other social outings? He will be the chaperone, only if he approves your outing. He is your legal and physical guardian. You can't travel anywhere unless he permits it and agrees with you. Why would a responsible grown-up woman need a man to be in-charge of her life-decisions? It seems that many Somali women don't like the freedoms they have in the West and would rather live in Saudi Arabia under these repressive conditions. If that is what we (Somalis) are striving for, so be it.

Watch the documentary and see the issues raised by these Saudi women.

Bro this illiterate man you are talking about is mainly the role of the father. I think you are getting confused between mahram and wali(guardian). Mahram is used mainly for who a woman can uncover her hijab for, shake hands with and who is eligible to be her travel partner. Basically a mahram to a woman is her husband, father, brothers, uncles etc.

Whereas the guardian role predominantly falls to the father. He has the right to to obedience as a father and can order you as long it doesn't involve haraam.

The other things you mentioned bro are not gigantic issues. It has more to do with the changing society we are living in and the westernisation that is reaching many parts of the world.

1)Islam does not allow free mixing of women and men because of the temptation it brings. But now it has become the norm where women and men work in the same place. In the west most guardians accept it but in muslim countries it is still shocking. Islam doesn't say women shouldn't work but that ideally that there shouldn't be mixing of the sexes in the workplace.

2)The driving ban was made by Scholars in Saudi who were more conservative in their views. It isn't a 100% binding legislation nor doesn't have clear cut proofs from hadith or quran. Rather it was a interpretation they made.

3)Islam requires a woman to travel with a mahram in most cases. So the father or the girls guardian has the right to forbid her travelling if it is feared it will be unsafe for her. For example, your 18 year old daughter saying she wants to go backpacking around Asia? Would you not be worried about her safety?

Bro Aussie...Islam is a balanced religion. There is a lot of propaganda but you shouldn't think Islam equates Saudi Arabia. They are a nation who can get it wrong or get it right.

Btw can i ask why you no longer believe in Islam?

 

[AussieHustler]

Illiterate or not, he’s still man and will fight for me.


Where as you will just watch me get hauled off by strange men while screaming

You can fight them Reiko, I believe in you. Equal rights and you screaming like a little girl.

Smh

@Suldaanka might have dropped out of high school, works under the table as a dugsi teacher, claims benefits while claiming to be unemployed and only takes showers on fridays but he would never ever stand and watch men harass women.

That’s the difference between you snowflakes and Muslim men.

@Reiko

If you need a man like that, you should head to Puntland and become the 4th wife of a reformed Jihadist Ictisaam merchant. Or buy a gun and defend yourself.

Jokes aside, we Somalis are extremists by nature and sooner than later, we will fully adopt the Saudi culture while they liberalise theirs.

@Sakiin

Sxb, watch the video and see how the system works in practice. I don't think any woman will strive for that kind of culture on her own free-will unless she has issues.