Arabs also practiced Artisanal Taboo

[Idilinaa]

We work with what we have and strongly state that it is all in a speculative range, even your ethnographic works by those westerners that you postulate to be an "objective" position about the Somali condition within a conversation about a still persisting social stratification, that mind you, is known by the majority of average Somalis.

What we have is A Preliminary Investigation of the Blood Groups of the Sab Bondsmen , thats the only thing we have thats is tested, controlled and representative. None of it is speculative, it's science.

Honestly the same so called '' Westerners''' as you would have them be called now, conducted this blood group study in hopes of supporting their hypothesis that they are remnant groups with a different origin partly as an extension of the now defunct Hamite Hypothesis because they found no evidence physically, culturally or linguistically. And to their utter suprise , their results came back opposite what they hoped for. That the Sab Bondsmen are identical to other Somali clans and no differences can be observed.

So it's pretty telling

I know this is a thing all over the Horn of Africa, not even only among Cushites either, Omotics have the exact same thing (a study on the Aaris pushes this phenomenon thousands of years back in time). They all have similar myths and conditions placed upon those marginalized artisan classes -- I posted a nice document about it here on two occasions. It's not some recent thing whatsoever. We definitely had similar types of specialized conditionalities to some minority sections even prior to these noble clans we belong to even existing. This is an ancient tradition that in a way tried to diversify and keep the balance of an economic environmental interaction subsistence packages reaffirmed by a clearly uniform mythological framework that stretches throughout populations that are geographically and ancestrally distinct.

Doesn't seem like you know, because if you understood how widely evenly distributed they are among various horn of african groups you wouldn't run around with these unproven speculations. Cause what it shows it's how this is rooted in the region.

Aside from the socio-economics of subsistence that underpin and explain this. There is a another similarity we can observe among the various cushitic groups that might by ancient and that is the ritual impurity myth and Herbert Lewis explains how common he finds these explanations are throughtout:

The commonest reason given for the fall of these groups
is that their ancestors ate impure meat some time in the past, even if they do not do so now (some of these peoples are said still to eat impure meat, such as wild pig). This tale is so common that it sounds like an old myth validating the lower social status of these groups in this area of rigid dietary rules.

It mainly used as a method/tool to validate and justify their social position.

 

[The alchemist]

What we have is A Preliminary Investigation of the Blood Groups of the Sab Bondsmen , thats the only thing we have thats is tested, controlled and representative. None of it is speculative, it's science.

Honestly the same so called '' Westerners''' as you would have them be called now, conducted this blood group study in hopes of supporting their hypothesis that they are remnant groups with a different origin partly as an extension of the now defunct Hamite Hypothesis because they found no evidence physically, culturally or linguistically. And to their utter suprise , their results came back opposite what they hoped for. That the Sab Bondsmen are identical to other Somali clans and no differences can be observed.

So it's pretty telling



Doesn't seem like you know, because if you understood how widely evenly distributed they are among various horn of african groups you wouldn't run around with these unproven speculations. Cause what it shows it's how this is rooted in the region.

Aside from the socio-economics of subsistence that underpin and explain this. There is a another similarity we can observe among the various cushitic groups that might by ancient and that is the ritual impurity myth and Herbert Lewis explains how common he finds these explanations are throughtout:

The commonest reason given for the fall of these groups
is that their ancestors ate impure meat some time in the past, even if they do not do so now (some of these peoples are said still to eat impure meat, such as wild pig). This tale is so common that it sounds like an old myth validating the lower social status of these groups in this area of rigid dietary rules.

It mainly used as a method/tool to validate and justify their social position.

Doesn't seem like you know, because if you understood how widely evenly distributed they are among various horn of african groups you wouldn't run around with these unproven speculations. Cause what it shows it's how this is rooted in the region.

This level of argumentation is too childish for me to engage with. Don't ever insinuate I'm a liar again and keep the respect. Let's keep it mature and baseline charitable.

I have discussed this issue with @Apollo long before you joined this forum since around 2019 when I read the genetic study of the Aari Blacksmiths and Aari Cultivators which laid the basis for other inference-seeking knowledge about parallel Somali marginalization relations:

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/expansion.106868/post-2771668

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/madhibaan-people.109903/post-2832052
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/would-you-marry-a-bantu-somali.79987/post-2110827

As you can see I linked a pretty comprehensive essay/article about the relationship and how ubiquitous it was throughout the Horn among distinct populations. I will add nothing further because it will be redundant and it seems you didn't read what I was initially addressing, I suggest you scroll back and reconsider. Overall we can agree to disagree and keep it moving.

 

[Idilinaa]

Doesn't seem like you know, because if you understood how widely evenly distributed they are among various horn of african groups you wouldn't run around with these unproven speculations. Cause what it shows it's how this is rooted in the region.

This level of argumentation is too childish for me to engage with. Don't ever insinuate I'm a liar again and keep the respect. Let's keep it mature and baseline charitable.

How is that childish? Pretty valid assessment based on the observable facts. You can feel free to speak to it without throwing ad-hominems.

I never insinuated you are a liar, you're just personalizing this

Reread what you qouted of me and fully take in what it actually says. Leave the ad-hominems and and personalizations.

I have discussed this issue with @Apollo long before you joined this forum since around 2019 when I read the genetic study of the Aari Blacksmiths and Aari Cultivators which laid the basis for other inference-seeking knowledge about parallel Somali marginalization relations:

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/expansion.106868/post-2771668

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/madhibaan-people.109903/post-2832052
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/would-you-marry-a-bantu-somali.79987/post-2110827

As you can see I linked a pretty comprehensive essay/article about the relationship and how ubiquitous it was throughout the Horn among distinct populations. I will add nothing further because it will be redundant and it seems you didn't read what I was initially addressing, I suggest you scroll back and reconsider. Overall we can agree to disagree and keep it moving.

If one want to discuss anything, one should bring in actually academic facts by people who study them and refer back to the studies on them.

One should engage with that research before beginning to discuss anything.

Basic common sense: Read, read and then offer an informed opinion.

 

[Shimbiris]

It turns out Arabs look down on strict fishermen, pearlers and tribes that specialize in hunting the same way Somalis do in the case of the Madhibaan for hunting and the Reer Maanyo in Koonfur in respect to being specialized fishermen:

(same book as the first quote in this thread)

The hunting caught me off-guard as Arabs love falconry but I guess they looked down on specialized hunters? Another interesting fact sorely missed by the author of this book is that you historically do find a fish taboo among Arabs alongside treating specialized fishermen as pariahs and despising them (source):

...
​

The book also goes into some decent detail regarding the general attitude toward crafts and specialized peoples and their role in society:

Overall it seems Arabians have a system very similar to Horners. The author further makes a very interesting set of observations and posits a hypothesis that pastoralist groups generally in both parts of Africa and Eurasia display a sort of "untouchability" and despise artisanal groups:

He is also not wrong about North-Africans, by the way. @tariq moses correctly points out that the Tuareg display this same sort of culture but it's not entirely just them. This was apparently quite common among Berbers as well, although with them it seems blacksmithing and pottery are stigmatized in particular:

In most traditional African or Mediterranean societies, blacksmiths occupy a special place and are often feared and sometimes despised. This was the case for a long time among the Berbers of the Maghreb or the Sahara. E. Doutté writes that in Algeria blacksmiths are said, still at the beginning of the 20th century, to be Beni Niyat and form a group outside of society; they are despised to the point that “haddad ben haddad ” (blacksmith son of blacksmith) is an insult. - source

-source

Industrial Arts. In the Rif, important traditional crafts were blacksmithing, pottery, basketry, and utilitarian woodwork such as plow handles and yokes. Blacksmithing was done by members of a totally endogamous, low-status occupational group from one tribe, the Axt Tuzin, which also provided low-status musicians who doubled as mule and donkey breeders. Women made pottery by hand in the Rif, but low-status, endogamous Black men used the pottery wheel in the Atlas (the same group that provided the blacksmiths of southern Morocco). There is strikingly little economic specialization in the region at large, however, and local men do craft work as needed. Only blacksmithing and, in the Imazighen and Ishilhayen areas, pottery making carry occupational stigmata. Silversmithing and packsaddle making, occupations formerly practiced by rural Jews, did as well, but all the latter migrated to Israel shortly after independence. -source

But I admit I am just starting out reading up on this with Berbers. Some other groups might be more comprehensive like Arabians, Somalis and Tuaregs, and they may have been so in the past. I will have to see. Also, interestingly, a lot of the jewelers, silversmiths and goldsmiths in the Maghreb were apparently Jews:

jewish, silversmith, maghreb - Google Search

Post to be continued...

 

[Shimbiris]

... post continuation

There is no real taabo or aversion against cratfsmanship when it comes to Somalis as a whole. Unlike say the way there is a real taboo and aversian against fish eating.

...

I see your points, walaal. And I agree that it's probably not as rigid as people think and that these groups are essentially off-shoots of the more "noble" among them they live next to. Probably were even having their numbers replenished over-time by the "nobles". This is likely true even in Arabia once you ignore the foreign crafts people.

Nevertheless, I would argue that it isn't wrong per say to see them as "castes" of sorts or to liken them to Indian lower castes. A lot of these communities seem like they formed a long time ago whilst Somalis and Arabs look down on them, will not marry them and even go so far as to refuse to eat with them which is similar to what upper-castes do to lower-castes in India:

(same source as the first one I linked to in this post)

Whereas all other Somalis have recognised territories and watering-places for each tribe or
subtribe, these three outcast tribes are a scattered people of no fixed home, who often attach
themselves in small groups or families as ‘abbans’ or servants, to the various Somali tribes all over the country. Meanwhile, the latter will not recognise them as of Somali birth, nor will they eat or intermarry with them. - source

I would also argue that it's most likely the same for Beta Isreal among Habeshas from the evidence i've seen in both texts and culture. They were Pagan Agaw that end up linking themselves to Hebrew/Jewishness link to dignify their status with a more abrahamic faith.

I totally agree with you here and acknowledge your points about the Yibir. Myself and Lank have long pointed how the Beta Israel are clearly just native Qemant Agaws:

• They have no history of Hebrew speaking or liturgy. Their liturgical language was Ge'ez like other northern Highland people or they at times wrote their own Agaw languages using the Ge'ez script.
• Their Y-DNA and mtDNA lineages seem completely normal Horner and in fact, in that respect, their Christian Xabash neighbors have a slightly stronger bias toward Jews and Middle-Easterners than them. We may find a different story when subclades are mapped on Yfull, for example, but I'm skeptical.
• Their auDNA is also completely native to the Horn in the sense that it just looks the same as everyone else's. If anything they have slightly less South-Arabian and Ancient Egyptian type affinities than Axmaars and Tigrinyas.
• Their material culture, as far as I've seen or read, is completely generic northern highlander. More similar to some Somali in Koonfur's than to any Jew's anywhere with the usual white tobes and conical thatched huts of either wattle and daub or stone.

The only thing that could prove any Jewish roots now is finding Jewish subclades in their uniparentals someday otherwise the prognosis is not good and they just look like artisanal Agaw people with unique religious practices.


Post to be continued...

 

[Shimbiris]

... post continuation

Great thread as always, and any ideas on where this taboo ultimately originated? It'd be cool if the Horner, Arabian and Tuareg metal/artisanal taboo has a common origin.

Thank you, xawey. I really don't know. The only source I have so far seen come even a little close is this one:

And, interestingly, Bedouins who show reluctance toward fish say that they'd "rather eat snakes":

But it's interesting that these particular Bedouin were willing to give it a shot, though only when presented to them cooked and after some argument then they liked it after, as opposed to others who apparently will vehemently refuse it and look down on those who simply handle it. But yeah, ancient fixation with the appearance of fish and connecting them to snakes or something like that is all I could find so far. I have to do more research and will get back to you if I find more, inshallah.

It's not just the Tuareg, by the way. Other Berbers as well as some Maghrebi Arabs are known to practice the similar taboos as I shared above, including a fish taboo:

-source

- source

- source

It's interesting that the third source actually gives a reason for once but it's totally different from the "snake" thing. There's also another source that mentions a fish taboo among them but it also goes into fish taboos in the ancient Middle-East and North-Africa a bit and it certainly seems interesting:

This cannot be a coincidence given that these are 3 different Afro-Asiatic groups all with often similar practices; Semites, Cushites and Berbers.

Another really interesting tidbit is that the Ancient Nubians at some point seemed to have practiced an aversion toward fish as well. When King Piye of Nubia was supposed to receive Egyptian nobles of the Delta at his palace they were refused entry in part because they were "fish-eaters" which apparently rendered them "unclean":

What's eye-catching about this source is that it describes how in Ancient Egypt, for much of its history, fish was fine to eat, commonly eaten then, if I'm not mistaken as I'm still giving it a good read, when the New Kingdom comes around there's a strange dichotomy that occurs. Fish is still somewhat revered, even deified in some writings but in others it is outright abhorred and spoken of as unclean and in this period Egyptian priests abstain from fish even though the nobles and lower-classes appear to still consume it:

​

But this is mostly it and it seems mainly limited to the priests from what I can see and is about things like ritual purity whilst also pertaining to goat meat alongside pigs and certain birds depending on the period:

...
​

The Nubian one seems different as the Egyptian nobles are being forbidden from entering the palace due to their fish-eating, implying everyone within, including the Nubian King, was not a fish-eater. And these are the Upper Nubian, Nilo-Saharan kind of Nubians which is interesting. Though it can be argued through genetics and linguistics that they have a lot of Cushitic substrata and/or adstrata so perhaps, in their case, that's where it comes from and why it extends beyond just priests. Bejas certainly practiced fish taboo right up into the modern era:

-source

-source

This second source above is very intriguing because once again the "snakes" comparison resurfaces. Then you this source which hypothesizes that the fish taboo is possibly extremely ancient among Cushites like them:

-source

And they're certainly onto something as I've seen Greek sources talking about "fish-eaters" during the pre-Islamic era as though that's something distinct compared to the other "Barbaroi" of Sudan. Anyway, it's very interesting how generally similar Cushites, Berbers and Semites, particularly Arabians, are.

 

[The alchemist]

How is that childish? Pretty valid assessment based on the observable facts. You can feel free to speak to it without throwing ad-hominems.

I never insinuated you are a liar, you're just personalizing this

Reread what you qouted of me and fully take in what it actually says. Leave the ad-hominems and and personalizations.



If one want to discuss anything, one should bring in actually academic facts by people who study them and refer back to the studies on them.

One should engage with that research before beginning to discuss anything.

Basic common sense: Read, read and then offer an informed opinion.

This is getting ridiculous and embarrassing. In face of evidence, you double down, I can't deal with this level of immaturity and over-inflated ego. I'm done with you.

 

[Idilinaa]

... post continuation



I see your points, walaal. And I agree that it's probably not as rigid as people think and that these groups are essentially off-shoots of the more "noble" among them they live next to. Probably were even having their numbers replenished over-time by the "nobles". This is likely true even in Arabia once you ignore the foreign crafts people.

Nevertheless, I would argue that it isn't wrong per say to see them as "castes" of sorts or to liken them to Indian lower castes. A lot of these communities seem like they formed a long time ago whilst Somalis and Arabs look down on them, will not marry them and even go so far as to refuse to eat with them which is similar to what upper-castes do to lower-castes in India:

(same source as the first one I linked to in this post)

I don't think these communities formed that long ago amongst Somalis at all. Although there indications that there has always been occupational segmentation.

I mentioned to you before that i think a lot of the Sab are recent (Late Middle ages and up) and a lot of them are partly descended from Urban artisan groups living in towns that during the late 16th century, joined rural community after the widespread de-urbanization that happened that led to abandonment of towns across the peninsula.

Firstly because they claim descent from the same medieval noble Somali lineages of the major clans and secondly there is no wide genetic differences or distance between them and other Somalis as far as we know. Which is weird since the they are endagemous( so we've been told)

Compare this to Indians who due to their caste system , where one Indian village or pop has greator genetic distance from each other than do Southern Europeans from Northern Europeans:

The genetic affinities among the more than 2000 extant caste populations of India, however, are complex. Genetic distances between caste populations from the state of Andhra Pradesh, India, are correlated with differences in caste rank, suggesting that endogamy and differential inter-caste gene flow influences genetic structure [30]. Several studies have found a similar pattern, [31-33] but others have not [6,34]. Higher rank castes may show closer affinity to European populations than do other caste populations [13]. Recent Y-chromosome data suggest a higher affinity between tribal populations and castes of lower rank [35].

Also Bondsmen is an correct way to describe them rather than caste because they attached themselves to particular mainstream Somali clans and lineages providing services in exchange for patronship and protection.

This is not my own opinion thats how scholars that study them describe it:

.. obstacles to the as Sab have been called ' low - caste ' , but they are implementation of development schemes in the correctly bondsmen . Traditionally every bondsman region . was bound to a noble Somali patron and protector .

I don't think there is so much looking down on the except for the case of Yibir than there is to mark strict social seperation and rules in terms of livelihood and occupations because most of the population had to be involved with food production, agriculture or they wouldn't survive.

In cases were there has been surplus of food above the subsistence means in the historical South and West due to government control of resources, you see far more diversification and people creating work shops.

 

[The alchemist]

@Shimbiris

There are specialized occupational castes in 14 West African populations.

Qimant and Beta Israelis definitely trace their lineage to the same population at some time back in time, as proven by that Ethiopian genetic study:

The genetic tree cluster is very nice.

This fish-eating taboo is very interesting in the backdrop of the heavy aquatic subsistence that has existed in the Sudanic geographic area since pre-agriculture. You can say that the aquatic lifestyle facilitated a more dense and higher population growth and demographic "sophistication" because of the abundance and increased sedentariness in contrast to strict hunting and gathering.

 

[Idilinaa]

I totally agree with you here and acknowledge your points about the Yibir. Myself and Lank have long pointed how the Beta Israel are clearly just native Qemant Agaws:

• They have no history of Hebrew speaking or liturgy. Their liturgical language was Ge'ez like other northern Highland people or they at times wrote their own Agaw languages using the Ge'ez script.
• Their Y-DNA and mtDNA lineages seem completely normal Horner and in fact, in that respect, their Christian Xabash neighbors have a slightly stronger bias toward Jews and Middle-Easterners than them. We may find a different story when subclades are mapped on Yfull, for example, but I'm skeptical.
• Their auDNA is also completely native to the Horn in the sense that it just looks the same as everyone else's. If anything they have slightly less South-Arabian and Ancient Egyptian type affinities than Axmaars and Tigrinyas.
• Their material culture, as far as I've seen or read, is completely generic northern highlander. More similar to some Somali in Koonfur's than to any Jew's anywhere with the usual white tobes and conical thatched huts oThere if either wattle and daub or stone.

The only thing that could prove any Jewish roots now is finding Jewish subclades in their uniparentals someday otherwise the prognosis is not good and they just look like artisanal Agaw people with unique religious practices.


Post to be continued...

Very Interesting.

There is a study that investigates into Beta Isreal. The Process of Caste Formation in Ethiopia: A Study of the Beta Israel (Felasha), 1270-1868


The term Falasha as it is used deragatorily has no connection to Judaism or them being Jews, it means 'landless', 'wanderers', and they more than likely fall into a pagan nomadic group that who in the middle ages resisted conversion, the term associates them with pagan Agaw and then later were just practicing their own, unique form of Ethiopian orthodoxy.

Btw did you know that the Pagan Agaw is recorded to have supported the Muslims in the war against the Abyssinian forces? :

A contemporary writer during the invasion of Ahmed Gragn(d.1543] complains that the still predominantly pagan Agaw were helping the Muslim forces, molesting Christian refugees, taking their possessions and killing them.

You should give this a read: Process of Ethnic Interaction and Integration in Ethiopian History: The Case of the Agaw . The Agaw was subjected to their vast inhabited area being annexed by the Amhara and them becoming forcefully Amharanized, onslaught on their institutions, culture etc being forcefully converted to Christianity during the Middle Ages

 

[Idilinaa]

... post continuation



Thank you, xawey. I really don't know. The only source I have so far seen come even a little close is this one:

And, interestingly, Bedouins who show reluctance toward fish say that they'd "rather eat snakes":

But it's interesting that these particular Bedouin were willing to give it a shot, though only when presented to them cooked and after some argument then they liked it after, as opposed to others who apparently will vehemently refuse it and look down on those who simply handle it. But yeah, ancient fixation with the appearance of fish and connecting them to snakes or something like that is all I could find so far. I have to do more research and will get back to you if I find more, inshallah.

It's not just the Tuareg, by the way. Other Berbers as well as some Maghrebi Arabs are known to practice the similar taboos as I shared above, including a fish taboo:

-source

- source

- source

It's interesting that the third source actually gives a reason for once but it's totally different from the "snake" thing. There's also another source that mentions a fish taboo among them but it also goes into fish taboos in the ancient Middle-East and North-Africa a bit and it certainly seems interesting:

This cannot be a coincidence given that these are 3 different Afro-Asiatic groups all with often similar practices; Semites, Cushites and Berbers.

Another really interesting tidbit is that the Ancient Nubians at some point seemed to have practiced an aversion toward fish as well. When King Piye of Nubia was supposed to receive Egyptian nobles of the Delta at his palace they were refused entry in part because they were "fish-eaters" which apparently rendered them "unclean":

What's eye-catching about this source is that it describes how in Ancient Egypt, for much of its history, fish was fine to eat, commonly eaten then, if I'm not mistaken as I'm still giving it a good read, when the New Kingdom comes around there's a strange dichotomy that occurs. Fish is still somewhat revered, even deified in some writings but in others it is outright abhorred and spoken of as unclean and in this period Egyptian priests abstain from fish even though the nobles and lower-classes appear to still consume it:

​

But this is mostly it and it seems mainly limited to the priests from what I can see and is about things like ritual purity whilst also pertaining to goat meat alongside pigs and certain birds depending on the period:

...
​

The Nubian one seems different as the Egyptian nobles are being forbidden from entering the palace due to their fish-eating, implying everyone within, including the Nubian King, was not a fish-eater. And these are the Upper Nubian, Nilo-Saharan kind of Nubians which is interesting. Though it can be argued through genetics and linguistics that they have a lot of Cushitic substrata and/or adstrata so perhaps, in their case, that's where it comes from and why it extends beyond just priests. Bejas certainly practiced fish taboo right up into the modern era:

-source

-source

This second source above is very intriguing because once again the "snakes" comparison resurfaces. Then you this source which hypothesizes that the fish taboo is possibly extremely ancient among Cushites like them:

-source

And they're certainly onto something as I've seen Greek sources talking about "fish-eaters" during the pre-Islamic era as though that's something distinct compared to the other "Barbaroi" of Sudan. Anyway, it's very interesting how generally similar Cushites, Berbers and Semites, particularly Arabians, are.

This should definitely have it's own seperate thread. Very fascinating. The fish eating is a real legitimate taboo and aversion and it seems to be rooted in the region's culture.

Which begs the question why it exist and how it developed? I can come with one possible explanation

That it's related to the snake serpent cult that was widely practiced among cushitic speakers, sudanics, ancient egyptians and ethiopians (Including Somalis). You can gleam that this could possibly be the case by the simple fact some groups refer to it as 'dirty water snakes'

Other than that, it's kinda reminiscent to the religous pork prohibition in the middle east.

 

[xLibaxsenderx]

Craftsmanship particularly blacksmiths and metallurgy was crucial to Islamic conquest, Arabs must've respected these craftsman if they didn't revere them

 

[Shimbiris]

Craftsmanship particularly blacksmiths and metallurgy was crucial to Islamic conquest, Arabs must've respected these craftsman if they didn't revere them

This phenomenon seems very ancient as it's even mentioned to some extent during the Nabi's (SAW) time like with Madinah's crafts people being largely ajanabis; not to mention, it's shared with Berbers and Cushites to some large extent so that's doubtful. Besides, most of Somalis' warfare exploits like in the Futux al-Xabasha and many others can be said to be owed to blacksmiths and metallurgy. Does that mean they respected and revered them? Unlikely given how ancient this stuff seems among Cushites. See the flaw in that logic, walaal? In fact, why wouldn't more recent Arabs in the last few hundred years respect their blacksmiths? As some of the sources I shared say one of the few respected "professions" among Arabs of the Peninsula has always been warfare and yet that doesn't stop them from looking down at the bondsmen tribes who made weapons for them to conduct that warfare.

This should definitely have it's own seperate thread. Very fascinating. The fish eating is a real legitimate taboo and aversion and it seems to be rooted in the region's culture.

Which begs the question why it exist and how it developed? I can come with one possible explanation

That it's related to the snake serpent cult that was widely practiced among cushitic speakers, sudanics, ancient egyptians and ethiopians (Including Somalis). You can gleam that this could possibly be the case by the simple fact some groups refer to it as 'dirty water snakes'

Other than that, it's kinda reminiscent to the religous pork prohibition in the middle east.

Yes, I'll make it a thread in a bit! Definitely worth discussing. I had no idea about this serpent cult you're talking about. Please do share it with sources once the thread is up.

I know this is a thing all over the Horn of Africa, not even only among Cushites either, Omotics have the exact same thing (a study on the Aaris pushes this phenomenon thousands of years back in time). They all have similar myths and conditions placed upon those marginalized artisan classes -- I posted a nice document about it here on two occasions. It's not some recent thing whatsoever. We definitely had similar types of specialized conditionalities to some minority sections even prior to these noble clans we belong to even existing. This is an ancient tradition that in a way tried to diversify and keep the balance of an economic environmental interaction subsistence packages reaffirmed by a clearly uniform mythological framework that stretches throughout populations that are geographically and ancestrally distinct.

Walaalkiis, could you share that source? Be very interested to read it. I'm aware Omotics have this going but wasn't aware of such writings.

 

[Idilinaa]

I also want to clarify. There is a difference between Rural artisans like the Sab and the Urban Somali artisans who lived in towns/cities.

Historically urban Somali craftsmen/artisans were never bondsmen, or attached to serve under a Noble clan,. Unlike the rural ones, they crafted things for marketplaces and for commercial production. They also were included in leadership and rulership in the towns clan council of elders (Guurtis) and enjoyed equal status to other town inhabitants.

Socio-economically there is a difference to be made here. Because people incorrectly tend to try to extend the rural experience onto the urban experience:

Infact this was one of the main requirements that set the Urban Somali clans apart from the rural clans. That they ''must be a people of trades and occupation'' . As a Benadiri Shaykh Historian lays it down:

fi Aydarüs indicates that these are the elements that a lineage requires in order to be an urban clan. Indeed, if they are found to lack one of the first seven they are ‘with defect’. However, his agenda is not simply to isolate urbanites from pastoral society. Certainly, he cites a number of elements which distinguish urbanites from their rural cousins. Stipulations 4: that they must be a people of trades and
occupations, and 5: that there must be among them a doctor who can treat the people, are attributes found commonly only among urban clans. Others, however, are elements common to all clans, rural or urban, such as 1, 3, 6 and 7 relating to learning, bloodwealth, and leadership respectively


Explained this further on page 1 with another example of Harar Somalis in the 1800s:

But this is entirely different in an Urban town/city, from an urban point of view where they live in fixed settlements and neither raise livestock, nor farm much land , their value lies in craftsmanship and trade/commerce.

This is why most of the craftsmanship/artisan activities are dominated by Gibil Madow Somali urban clans on the Benadiri coast town. When Abgaal and Bimaal entered to controll the urban towns a section of them took up Artisan/Craftsman activities: Giungi and Kaafari

This is also seen within the city of Harar in the 1800s where Somalis are the main craftsmans/artisans: The History of Harar and Harari:

To concretize this relationship, here are some examples; Burton’s description of the population of the city of Harar shows there were 2500 Somalis engaged in different activities (Burton, R., 1956). The spatial organization of the city and the quarters also has some ethnic stratification. Accordingly, the Somalis were predominantly found in the Suqtat Bari, engaged in occupations such as handicraft, smithery and leatherwork.

Is why Hararis name for Somali is ''Tumur'', their pronounciation of ''Tumaal'' and their word Blacksmith is a borrowing from from that ''Tumtu''

 

[The alchemist]

This phenomenon seems very ancient as it's even mentioned to some extent during the Nabi's (SAW) time like with Madinah's crafts people being largely ajanabis; not to mention, it's shared with Berbers and Cushites to some large extent so that's doubtful. Besides, most of Somalis' warfare exploits like in the Futux al-Xabasha and many others can be said to be owed to blacksmiths and metallurgy. Does that mean they respected and revered them? Unlikely given how ancient this stuff seems among Cushites. See the flaw in that logic, walaal? In fact, why wouldn't more recent Arabs in the last few hundred years respect their blacksmiths? As some of the sources I shared say one of the few respected "professions" among Arabs of the Peninsula has always been warfare and yet that doesn't stop them from looking down at the bondsmen tribes who made weapons for them to conduct that warfare.

You can take that logic to the next level and say, slavery was an integral part of the economy of many ancient societies, but does that mean that slaves were appreciated and elevated for that fact?

There were West African populations that had an occupational caste that was elevated quite to the degree above hurr (freemen, i.e., noble people, majority of population, though slave demographic could reach half of the overall total) or similar status-wise, still, they were considered different in their own respects. This was a rare thing. The majority of castes were below freemen and above slaves. Interestingly, castes in West Africa could not be enslaved, so you could literally have ex-noblemen that lost a war that became slaves but these marginalized castes were absolved from that altogether.

By the way, I do not draw a specific direct comparative influence between what they got in West Africa with the Horn of Africa one -- I think unless finding evidence for such a case -- one should treat it to their own conditions. It would be interesting to see if the West African proper people got this influence from Saharan spatial intermediates like Tuaregs that, what I assume, practice the northwest African sort.

Walaalkiis, could you share that source? Be very interested to read it. I'm aware Omotics have this going but wasn't aware of such writings.

The anthropological research document fleshes out the hereditary traditional and social forces:

Freeman, Dena (2003) Understanding marginalisation in Ethiopia. (edit: I see it does not download the PDF for some reason, click on this link and download from the webpage.)

I think this book delves deeper into the question from a comparative standpoint, as the scholarly work mentioned above is a neat compact comprehensive introductory edition, with the book including a guy by the name of Alula Pankhurst (yes, the son of Richard Pankhurst) as co-author. I have yet to read the book but will drop it here:

Freeman, Dena., and Alula. Pankhurst. 2003. Peripheral People  : the Excluded Minorities of Ethiopia. London: Hurst & Company.

And the genetic study of the two Aari populations:

Van Dorp, L., Balding, D., Myers, S., Pagani, L., Tyler-Smith, C., Bekele, E., ... & Hellenthal, G. (2015). Evidence for a common origin of blacksmiths and cultivators in the Ethiopian Ari within the last 4500 years: lessons for clustering-based inference. PLoS genetics, 11(8), e1005397. ISO 690

 

[xLibaxsenderx]

This phenomenon seems very ancient as it's even mentioned to some extent during the Nabi's (SAW) time like with Madinah's crafts people being largely ajanabis; not to mention, it's shared with Berbers and Cushites to some large extent so that's doubtful. Besides, most of Somalis' warfare exploits like in the Futux al-Xabasha and many others can be said to be owed to blacksmiths and metallurgy. Does that mean they respected and revered them? Unlikely given how ancient this stuff seems among Cushites. See the flaw in that logic, walaal? In fact, why wouldn't more recent Arabs in the last few hundred years respect their blacksmiths? As some of the sources I shared say one of the few respected "professions" among Arabs of the Peninsula has always been warfare and yet that doesn't stop them from looking down at the bondsmen tribes who made weapons for them to conduct that warfare.



Yes, I'll make it a thread in a bit! Definitely worth discussing. I had no idea about this serpent cult you're talking about. Please do share it with sources once the thread is up.



Walaalkiis, could you share that source? Be very interested to read it. I'm aware Omotics have this going but wasn't aware of such writings.

I can't attest to jahiliya Arabia, but Islamic Arabia not only respected metallurgy they even refined the craft by inventing chemistry and elixirs. Science was not a matter scoffed at in Islamic Arabia, quite the contrary actually.

 

[Idilinaa]

I also want to clarify. There is a difference between Rural artisans like the Sab and the Urban Somali artisans who lived in towns/cities.

Historically urban Somali craftsmen/artisans were never bondsmen, or attached to serve under a Noble clan,. Unlike the rural ones, they crafted things for marketplaces and for commercial production. They also were included in leadership and rulership in the towns clan council of elders (Guurtis) and enjoyed equal status to other town inhabitants.

Socio-economically there is a difference to be made here. Because people incorrectly tend to try to extend the rural experience onto the urban experience:

Infact this was one of the main requirements that set the Urban Somali clans apart from the rural clans. That they ''must be a people of trades and occupation'' . As a Benadiri Shaykh Historian lays it down:

fi Aydarüs indicates that these are the elements that a lineage requires in order to be an urban clan. Indeed, if they are found to lack one of the first seven they are ‘with defect’. However, his agenda is not simply to isolate urbanites from pastoral society. Certainly, he cites a number of elements which distinguish urbanites from their rural cousins. Stipulations 4: that they must be a people of trades and
occupations, and 5: that there must be among them a doctor who can treat the people, are attributes found commonly only among urban clans. Others, however, are elements common to all clans, rural or urban, such as 1, 3, 6 and 7 relating to learning, bloodwealth, and leadership respectively


Explained this further on page 1 with another example of Harar Somalis in the 1800s:

Found some more information on Somali urban artisans and how they apparently organized themselves in guilds

From the; Peoples of the Horn of Africa (Somali, Afar and Saho): North Eastern

ARTISAN AND GUILD ORGANIZATIONS

These occur in the coastal towns of the south (there is no information for the north) and may well be the urban development of the institutions just described. A man wishing to apprentice his son to a carpenter, builder, or craftsman, takes him to the master with a gift (faddi). After a feast attended by apprentices at which roasted coffee is served, the lad joins the craftsman's family and remains under his authority. In return for lodging and keep, the apprentice works for his master's profit until, on reaching the status of craftsman, he desires to be independent. Then he purchases his freedom by a payment of money, a man's kercheif (garbasar) and a shield (gashan), returning his tools. Emancipation is celebrated ritually with feasting. It appears that often, by the time the apprentice is expert, his master has died, and we are not told what happens in this case.

There are similar guilds of weavers and silver-smiths, the second forming a kind of cast probably similar to the Tumaal..

@Shimbiris @xLibaxsenderx @Aurelian