Anyone remember that time Somali Atheists/Agnostics were bullied out of clubhouse?

[Caadi iskadig]

My exact quote
Islamic scholars are educated in terms of their fields which are useless practically in the world.

You with your whataboutism have made this about if Islamic scientist of old are uneducated.

Get straight with me or I’m done arguing with you.

We're done.

 

[Angelina]

What does anything you say have to do with my point? I don't care about the rest of the Muslim community, Somalia is ethno-religious. So let's stick to the point.

Tell me how am I clutching at straws by naming ethno-religious groups?

Ofcourse I'm not talking about blood (did I literally not say that before???), I'm talking about the social-theological concept. You have to be humble and understand what ethno-religion means instead of telling me that I'm clutching at straws. If you're a Somali gaal then by definition you're not socially Somali, it's a fact.

The bit in bold I agree with as the Somali culture is centred around Islamic traditions.
So, they cannot fully be seen as being part of the Somali community. The moment you renounce Islam, your Somalinimo is revoked in a sense as you no longer share the values that are upheld as incredibly important in the community.

The only real confusion with saying they are not Somali at all is because in that situation we are denying their lineages, which is something we cannot take away or change. Example, if a person from an ethnoreligious background, lets say Greek (Greek orthodox followers) converts to Islam, does he stop being Greek? He can he deny his association with a group that are culturally and ethnically interwoven with Greek Orthodoxy?

Btw, I agree with your point with regards to them not being Somali culturally and socially. But saying they're not Somali fullstop raises too many confusing questions in my mind.

 

[Caadi iskadig]

The bit in bold I agree with as the Somali culture is centred around Islamic traditions.
So, they cannot fully be seen as being part of the Somali community. The moment you renounce Islam, your Somalinimo is revoked in a sense as you no longer share the values that are upheld as incredibly important in the community.

The only real issue with saying they are not Somali at all is because in that situation we are denying their lineages, which is something we cannot take away or change. Example, if a person from an ethnoreligious background, lets say Greek (Greek orthodox followers) converts to Islam, does he stop being Greek?

Why do you insist on going around in circles? I've already answered your questions yet you're asking me similar questions for the second time.

By blood, they're Somali.
Socially, they're not Somali.

We're an ethno-religious group, which means they're not Somali. Very simple, but I think you should read about the ethno-religious concept in order to understand me.

Our religion and ethnicity are binding, which means one can't exist without the other. I don't know about Greeks on whether they're an ethno-religious group or not. If they are then the same rule applies.

 

[Netflix]

The bit in bold I agree with as the Somali culture is centred around Islamic traditions.
So, they cannot fully be seen as being part of the Somali community. The moment you renounce Islam, your Somalinimo is revoked in a sense as you no longer share the values that are upheld as incredibly important in the community.

The only real issue with saying they are not Somali at all is because in that situation we are denying their lineages, which is something we cannot take away or change. Example, if a person from an ethnoreligious background, lets say Greek (Greek orthodox followers) converts to Islam, does he stop being Greek?

This line of reasoning is beyond retarded of course you’ll still have the same values especially in Somalia. It’s the reason why atheists say Jesus or Somali gaal say wallahi it’s just an idiom. If your religion is the only thing that stop’s you from violating your values then you clearly don’t believe in your values.

 

[Angelina]

Why do you insist on going around in circles? I've already answered your questions yet you're asking me similar questions for the second time.

By blood, they're Somali.
Socially, they're not Somali.

We're an ethno-religious group, which means they're not Somali. Very simple, but I think you should read about the ethno-religious concept in order to understand me.

Our religion and ethnicity are binding, which means one can't exist without the other. I don't know about Greeks on whether they're an ethno-religious group or not. If they are then the same rule applies.

This is simply my view in a nutshell:

Btw, I agree with your point with regards to them not being Somali culturally and socially. But saying they're not Somali fullstop raises too many confusing questions in my mind.

 

[Angelina]

This line of reasoning is beyond retarded of course you’ll still have the same values especially in Somalia. It’s the reason why atheists say Jesus or Somali gaal say wallahi it’s just an idiom. If your religion is the only thing that stop’s you from violating your values then you clearly don’t believe in your values.

Many aspects of Somali culture is rooted in Islam and Islamic traditions. I fail to see how you can have a sense of Somalinimo when your lifestyle deviates from the core priniciples and traditions that unites us as Somalis.

 

[Netflix]

Many aspects of Somali culture is rooted in Islam and Islamic traditions. I fail to see how you can have a sense of Somalinimo when your lifestyle deviates from the core priniciples and traditions that unites us as Somalis.

For the 100th time today Somalis never united under Islam. They always had localised sultanates and never a Islamic central authority like Ethiopia. The Somali state is not based on Islam.

 

[Angelina]

For the 100th time today Somalis never united under Islam. They always had localised sultanates and never a Islamic central authority like Ethiopia. The Somali state is not based on Islam.

You're talking about governance and states.

I'm talking about Somali culture and traditions. Culture and traditions unite people. It is why I feel a sense of kinship to someone in Djibouti despite having a different nation because of our 'Somalinimo'.

Two completely different things. Also, the fact that you had to bring that up goes to show you're tugging at straws.

 

[Netflix]

Many aspects of Somali culture is rooted in Islam and Islamic traditions. I fail to see how you can have a sense of Somalinimo when your lifestyle deviates from the core priniciples and traditions that unites us as Somalis.

Somalis practiced Sufism historically which has many pre-Islamic elements not all of Somali culture is from Islam.

 

[Caadi iskadig]

This is simply my view in a nutshell:

Btw, I agree with your point with regards to them not being Somali culturally and socially. But saying they're not Somali fullstop raises too many confusing questions in my mind.

I agree.

By the way, don't argue with @The Greatest, he literally said that Islamic scientists are uneducated. He contradicts himself a lot as well, you'll just waste your time trust me.

 

[Netflix]

I agree.

By the way, don't argue with @The Greatest, he literally said that Islamic scientists are uneducated. He contradicts himself a lot as well, you'll just waste your time trust me.

I said Islamic scientists of old are uneducated don’t try to put words in my mouth.

 

[Caadi iskadig]

I said Islamic scientists of old are uneducated don’t try to put words in my mouth.

Still an outrageous statement.

 

[GeeljireOriginal]

This is simply my view in a nutshell:

Btw, I agree with your point with regards to them not being Somali culturally and socially. But saying they're not Somali fullstop raises too many confusing questions in my mind.

The reason we say they are not Somali is because they have become too much of an enemy to be one of us, and they don't hesitate to show their animosity even before we outcaste them ourselves. I have never seen a more aggressive disrespectful group than those Somali ex Muslims, they totally loose their mind soon as they become gaalo, so instead of forcing themselves into a community they despise they should find liberal communities that are easy to fit in to, such as the black gaalo diaspora and the western society in general.

 

[Netflix]

The reason we say they are not Somali is because they have become too much of an enemy to be one of us, and they don't hesitate to show their animosity even before we outcaste them ourselves. I have never seen a more aggressive disrespectful group than those Somali ex Muslims, they totally loose their mind soon as they become gaalo, so instead of forcing themselves into a community they despise they should find liberal communities that are easy to fit in to, such as the black gaalo diaspora and the western society in general.

Muslims tend to have no problems mocking gaals so why do you care if Somali ex Muslims mock you back. You’re just a low iq hyprocite.

 

[Reformed J]

Turks aren't ethno-religious.

Syrians definitely aren't ethno religious.

Look up Syria's demographics lol, its a bit obvious they're not. Their president isn't even a Muslim!

I agree with your sentiment. But you are what Allah made you. I'm talking about blood. Socially, you can argue whatever you want to argue.

The Turkish identity was ethno-religious, likewise with the Greek (Rum/Roman) identity. Look up the history of the ottoman empire and the millet system.

 

[Angelina]

The Turkish identity was ethno-religious, likewise with the Greek (Rum/Roman) identity. Look up the history of the ottoman empire and the millet system.

I know i'm fully aware, but it isn't now and they also have an Alevis minority and a good % of irreligious Turks due to Atturk's influence. You could argue that Atturk has stripped the ethno-religious identity of Turks. It is normal to see an agnostic, wine drinking Turk in this day and age and no one will claim they are not Turkish.

 

[Ibrahim hassan]

I'd your not Muslim your not somali that's it. You won't be able to change facts whole somali clans we're stripped of Somaliness because they became kuffar and forcefully moved to Rwanda and called themselves tutsi

 

[Hared]

lineage and ideology are two different things and one trumps the other, i find it incredulous
that you are arguing about one retaining their ethnicity when allah has stripped them of even the
right to live. please put your arguments in their proper perspectives. these denigrates are not even worth
your time in the right islamic environment shariah state they would meet their fate till then stop
wasting your valuable time with them