Any thoughts on this

[Schematics]

If you are a very successful and rich black Muslim man. They be throwing their daughter at you. Plus, why are most of these black guys low quality? Do Muslim girls easily fall for sweet talk?

In America, your successes are predetermined by the zip code of where your great grandfather lived. Poverty and illiteracy are cyclical and crosses into generations. This is true for blacks and whites in the south who have the lowest IQ and education. If you Google the least ranked states in education, health, opportunity, you will see Mississipi, Alabama etc come up often, All southern and have white and black populations who are basically at the bottom.

The blacks who moved originally to other states for a better life met same discrimination in housing and education. When you are denied all progress, you are bound to fail. They established their poor neighbour hood, The cycle restarted again.

Basically, when you are born into a ghetto, you are bound to be a ghetto. Many escaped the cycle, but many remain in it. Somalis who grew up in these areas turned out to be the same, hence, Somali looking girls doing what a typical African American raised in the ghetto does, be a loser. Same with Somali guys with low hanging pants.

 

[Schematics]

The saying "You are the product of your household" and "environment" rings true always and explains people"s behaviour, attitudes, levels of education(often). It applies to Somalis and blacks same way. Hope that explians.

There are exceptions as well to these laws of nature and nurture.

 

[Kingjames]

Well I would much prefer parthenogenesis if it were a possibility. So I could only have daughters (without copulation) that look just like me.

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[AdoonkaAlle]

View attachment 70653
Anyone wears skin?

I would say it depends on the context but i do believe that people fall into extremes. Seeking compatibility in lineage is halal and it's one of the qualities that people seek in marriage. Unfortunately in our modern times western born/raised youth have a tendency to not acknowledge this fact which is why many deem it to be racist.

Whether you are rejected due to lack of wealth, lineage, beauty etc doesn't change the fact that you didn't meet the expectation/requirements. It's not our position to dictate how others should form their expectations just be content with yours. If you are both compatible Alhamdulillah if not Alhamdulillah and you move on with your life. Why waste precious time and energy in trying to change people that don't share your views ? Life is too short to focus on such inconsequential issues.

 

[Ahmed321]

I hear about these extreme examples, but over here, most times Somali women marry out it's to black Africans. Ironically doesn't end well.

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WOW my Family their are against Arab and White and West Africa, only Somali and Yemen not even Indian. I ended my relationship with Ex girlfriend who she was half Iraq and White we been dating for 4 years it all went to Qashin

 

[Vanessa]

Funny thing is I got the this pic from the shaax corner fb group. The responses were opposite compare to this thread. The ladies were for interracial love and called others ignorant or racist for those who against interracial marriage smh.
If im racist so what!!!
Intraracial love wins!

 

[Vanessa]

There's a popular revert on YouTube called Ali Dawah and he's going to release a documentary soon about his attempts to get married and one of his rejected marriage proposals was one with a Somali girl whose parents absolutely refused to let them get married.

I can’t wait to see this documentary

 

[Schematics]

I would say it depends on the context but i do believe that people fall into extremes. Seeking compatibility in lineage is halal and it's one of the qualities that people seek in marriage. Unfortunately in our modern times western born/raised youth have a tendency to not acknowledge this fact which is why many deem it to be racist.

Whether you are rejected due to lack of wealth, lineage, beauty etc doesn't change the fact that you didn't meet the expectation/requirements. It's not our position to dictate how others should form their expectations just be content with yours. If you are both compatible Alhamdulillah if not Alhamdulillah and you move on with your life. Why waste precious time and energy in trying to change people that don't share your views ? Life is too short to focus on such inconsequential issues.

Lineage quality is subjective and human societies tend to create low caste groups amongst their kinsmen out of bigotry. Did Allah create low caste system? Islam abolishes the subjective lineage but Muslims hang on to it. They go as far as lying about God's intent with his Revelations quoting the oft misused and abused verses of the Quran.

You said Alhamdulillah but I suspect you are just typical double-talking Somali since you did not make an exception to the so called lineage halal option.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Lineage quality is subjective and human societies tend to create low caste groups amongst their kinsmen out of bigotry. Did Allah create low caste system? Islam abolishes the subjective lineage but Muslims hang on to it. They go as far as lying about God's intent with his Revelations quoting the oft misused and abused verses of the Quran.

You said Alhamdulillah but I suspect you are just typical double-talking Somali since you did not make an exception to the so called lineage halal option.

Walaal you've missed my point completely, compatibility in lineage is one of the qualities sought after in marriage others being deen, beauty and wealth. My point has to do with the legality of it according to the deen and not how people choose to misuse it. To you it may not matter but for some it does and the deen has given people the right to act in accordance with their customs, expectations etc as long as it's within the limits.

Mankind was created weak and as such it's futile to expect perfection from human beings. People have their shortcomings and this should be factored in when dealing with people. Why should it matter if i make an exception or not ? Walaal it's best to live your life according to how you see fit within the confines of our deen. There's no point in trying to dictate to others how they should live their lives life is too short for that sxb.

 

[Schematics]

Walaal you've missed my point completely, compatibility in lineage is one of the qualities sought after in marriage others being deen, beauty and wealth. My point has to do with the legality of it according to the deen and not how people choose to misuse it. To you it may not matter but for some it does and the deen has given people the right to act in accordance with their customs, expectations etc as long as it's within the limits.

Mankind was created weak and as such it's futile to expect perfection from human beings. People have their shortcomings and this should be factored in when dealing with people. Why should it matter if i make an exception or not ? Walaal it's best to live your life according to how you see fit within the confines of our deen. There's no point in trying to dictate to others how they should live their lives life is too short for that sxb.

Good excuses but still feeble on principle. The lineage option, what makes one lineage better than the other since Allah created all equal? What is the legal justification for existing clan caste ssytems? And while you are at it, if it is human to not be perfect, what gives exceptions to certian lineages from being imperfect like the rest of the so called imperfect low caste clans? Will your clan bestow on you the perfection which you personally don't have?

You seem to be insiting on lineage quality as if there are different qualities in lineages people are born into that are objective.

There is subjectivity to the qaulity given to a particular lineage. So even if we accept a clan has certain prestige above others, it would still be based on material, bravery, and character the whole clan can not share among all its members. Another question is how the clan came to be associated with the quality they are alleged to have whereas others in the same ethnic group are deemed less quality in lineage. I haven't seen anything Islamic that supports special lineage and good quality versus bad quality lineage automatically being given to people because of their birth family.

Qualities totlineages can be subjective and we should judge individuals based on their own character. And am not talking about somali women marrying a non-somali. Just the merits of lineages having ranks above each other and the Islamic view of that. Waa sheeko gaaleed waxaas. And Allah denied the jews such claims they made regarding the Arabs and gentiles.

I see no value in the lineage you are born into but a greater value in your character. That is how it is in the rational universe.

 

[Schematics]

Earlier Muslims freed the enslaved so they gain their equality and dignity as human beings. . These enslaved human beings were all over the known world. Omar Ibnu Al-Khattab once ruled in favor of a slave who was slapped by a free Muslim born to a noble family. When the man got really upset and felt offended by Omar's judgement in favor of the slave he slapped, Omar said "The Victim Was Born FREE". You can not simply strip people's God given dignity and subjectively name them something they were not or meant to be for our own whimsical views.

In the Quran Allah praised Muslims as freeing others from the slavery of men/idols to the freedom of Monotheism. Islam came to fight the injustices mankind created in order to abuse each other, to subjugate each other, to steal from one another. Islam replaced the racial troubles with the harmony of brotherhood through faith that in most cases proves to be stronger than the blood ties people have with each other. Somalis are a prime example of blood kinship amounting to nothing once people get corrupted.

Why do you think when you spot a Muslim, no matter what that Muslim looks like racially, you automatically feel kinship even if you walk by them and say nothing? The power of faith right?

Lineage obsession is just an excuse to commit an injustice against a fellow human and a close relative within your own countrymen like Somalis.

Islam replaced all parameters of judgement in existence with a better judging system that ignores the person's Lineage and Wealth but focuses on Dhaqan/Diin.. In the famous hadith when the prophet advised a young adult who wanted to get married, he did not list the Lineage so people can translate his intent to mean a Muslim marries for Qabiil. His suggestion completely negates this by saying "Ku nasiibso tan diinta leh" or "Try your luck with the one who has deen/culture/dhaqan", he didn't say settle for the lineage or wealth. He was neither giving a tacit support for people getting on their grooves based on clan lines. Simple, people do get married along those lines in consideration but the only option the prophet suggested was the lady with the Religion/Faith/deen/dhaqan, meaning she practices her beliefs as much as she can regardless of what she clan she hails from. That is the Advise the Prophet gave.

I am Somali after all and am biased myself to some degree towards my own Somalis and favor my female relatives to marry a Somali guy. With that said, I would not object if they brought a good Muslim home no matter what he looks like. I would do this not because I might be 100% happy with the choice, but accept my feelings and preference are not superior to the better judgment of Islam. Islam comes always better as a culture and choice.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Good excuses but still feeble on principle. The lineage option, what makes one lineage better than the other since Allah created all equal? What is the legal justification for existing clan caste ssytems? And while you are at it, if it is human to not be perfect, what gives exceptions to certian lineages from being imperfect like the rest of the so called imperfect low caste clans? Will your clan bestow on you the perfection which you personally don't have?

You seem to be insiting on lineage quality as if there are different qualities in lineages people are born into that are objective.

There is subjectivity to the qaulity given to a particular lineage. So even if we accept a clan has certain prestige above others, it would still be based on material, bravery, and character the whole clan can not share among all its members. Another question is how the clan came to be associated with the quality they are alleged to have whereas others in the same ethnic group are deemed less quality in lineage. I haven't seen anything Islamic that supports special lineage and good quality versus bad quality lineage automatically being given to people because of their birth family.

All are subjectuive and we judge individuals based on their own character. And am not talking about somali women marrying a non-somali. Just the merits of lineages having ranks above each other and the Islamic view of that. Waa sheeko gaaleed waxaas. And Allah denied the jews such claims they made regarding the Arabs and gentiles.

I see no value in the lineage you are born into but a greater value in your character. That is how it is in the rational universe.

Walaal again you have completely misunderstood what i wrote. Let me try to clarify my point a bit further, when i mentioned that lineage is a quality that is sought after i'm not referring to an aspect of superiority which you are inferring but an attribute or trait in terms of a person's heritage.

My use of the word lineage isn't limited to somali clans but it encompasses ethnic groupings so to speak. People of a similar heritage have more in common than those from a different heritage. There's more cultural affinity towards ones own heritage and people want to have that resemblance in their spouses as well this was my point.

It had nothing to do with the superiority of one lineage over another. The fact that you can not think of other possible reasons of why a person would choose a spouse of the same lineage other than in a superiority context is an issue by itself. This is why you keep on coming back to the same point over and over again.


Let me use myself as an example, when it comes to marriage i only seek somali women simply because i share more commonalities with them than non somali women as a result of their lineage. So to summarize lineage is an attribute just like beauty, wealth etc that people will accept and reject others. There's no one standard that fits everyone and as long as it's permissible and within the confines of the deen people are free to choose whatever suits them best.

We judge individuals based on a number of qualities with character being the most important. Let me ask you would you marry a sister who has good character and deen but you were not attracted to at all? what about one who was either completely disabled. mentally challenged, can't have children or even suffering from a serious disease ?

 

[Schematics]

Walaal again you have completely misunderstood what i wrote. Let me try to clarify my point a bit further, when i mentioned that lineage is a quality that is sought after i'm not referring to an aspect of superiority which you are inferring but an attribute or trait in terms of a person's heritage.

My use of the word lineage isn't limited to somali clans but it encompasses ethnic groupings so to speak. People of a similar heritage have more in common than those from a different heritage. There's more cultural affinity towards ones own heritage and people want to have that resemblance in their spouses as well this was my point.

It had nothing to do with the superiority of one lineage over another. The fact that you can not think of other possible reasons of why a person would choose a spouse of the same lineage other than in a superiority context is an issue by itself. This is why you keep on coming back to the same point over and over again.


Let me use myself as an example, when it comes to marriage i only seek somali women simply because i share more commonalities with them than non somali women as a result of their lineage. So to summarize lineage is an attribute just like beauty, wealth etc that people will accept and reject others. There's no one standard that fits everyone and as long as it's permissible and within the confines of the deen people are free to choose whatever suits them best.

We judge individuals based on a number of qualities with character being the most important. Let me ask you would you marry a sister who has good character and deen but you were not attracted to at all? what about one who was either completely disabled. mentally challenged, can't have children or even suffering from a serious disease ?

There is no other possible reason that underlie the choice of lineage other than seeing it as better than other lineages for you., hence, the choice you make based on that as a priority point among other priorities you checklist in a potential mate. . I am guilty of the same but on a higher level than the clan level common among Somalis and to the level of Somali Ethnicity as something I favor for marriage within among the Muslim communities. This is as you alluded to because of familiarity and comfort level experienced through the Somali person than I would feel with someone else from another culture.

With these justifications stated though, I am not insisting on the choice be made by everyone as if it is Islamically sanctioned.

Additionally, I see no value to Clan 100% within the Somali community for example. There is only harm coming from it than anything useful. I see the evidence of that around me everyday and the destructive nature of the clan culture which reduced an entire nation into servile towns, states, and people. And I have zero interest in relitigation to remedy the ugliness of tribal existence. Prophet Mohamed called the clan practice of Somalis Pre-Islamic. I run into somalis defending the ugliness in the name of choices and preferences allowed. The cycle goes on, rinse and repeat.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

There is no other possible reason that underlie the choice of lineage other than seeing it as better than other lineages for you., hence, the choice you make based on that as a priority point among other priorities you checklist in a potential mate. . I am guilty of the same but on a higher level than the clan level common among Somalis and to the level of Somali Ethnicity as something I favor for marriage within among the Muslim communities. This is as you alluded to because of familiarity and comfort level experienced through the Somali person than I would feel with someone else from another culture.

With these justifications stated though, I am not insisting on the choice be made by everyone as if it is Islamically sanctioned.

Additionally, I see no value to Clan 100% within the Somali community for example. There is only harm coming from it than anything useful. I see the evidence of that around me everyday and the destructive nature of the clan culture which reduced an entire nation into servile towns, states, and people. And I have zero interest in relitigation to remedy the ugliness of tribal existence. Prophet Mohamed called the clan practice of Somalis Pre-Islamic. I run into somalis defending the ugliness in the name of choices and preferences allowed. The cycle goes on, rinse and repeat.

The choice is a result of preference not one based on the belief that one lineage is inferior ie lineage supremacy, this distinction has to be made. People do espouse the views that you were alluding to but despite this you simply can not assume that this is true for each and every case. Just because some people make such choices based on prejudice does not negate the fact that other don't and most importantly that the deen made provisions for people to have such a preference to begin with.


Just like you i've experienced the worst of qabyaalad but i've also experienced the good of qabil. The Prophet SAW was referring to when people support their keen in an unjust cause, this is the call to Jahilliya. Qabil among somalis is used for both good and bad deeds so it's only when it's utilised in a manner that is beyond what is enjoined in the deen that it becomes Jahilliya.


If anything it's the misuse of what the deen has allowed that leads to transgression and not the mere fact that it's permissible.

 

[Schematics]

The choice is a result of preference not one based on the belief that one lineage is inferior ie lineage supremacy, this distinction has to be made. People do espouse the views that you were alluding to but despite this you simply can not assume that this is true for each and every case. Just because some people make such choices based on prejudice does not negate the fact that other don't and most importantly that the deen made provisions for people to have such a preference to begin with.


Just like you i've experienced the worst of qabyaalad but i've also experienced the good of qabil. The Prophet SAW was referring to when people support their keen in an unjust cause, this is the call to Jahilliya. Qabil among somalis is used for both good and bad deeds so it's only when it's utilised in a manner that is beyond what is enjoined in the deen that it becomes Jahilliya.


If anything it's the misuse of what the deen has allowed that leads to transgression and not the mere fact that it's permissible.

Clan has become a burden on our society and the reason for impoverishment across the board. Think the burden on you in America and how many people are waiting for you back home for your monetary support. This is at the personal level and how much impact the absence of Somalia as collective institution that serves all Somalis has on all of us.

There is little a clan system can do today for a society numbering into the millions with resource rich country of their own. Only reason they are a failure and ranked as the world's most corrupt is because of the clan system that empowers the corrupt men who run the show.

There is no good side to clan when it comes to Somalis, Just a CURSE. Saixb, you can't even run a Quranic Dugsi without the curse of clan creeping in causing dysfunction among the parents who bring their Kids for ISLAMIC TEACHING.

They fight over the mosque leadership because of a clan. They accuse Quranic teachers of being biased to some students who excel in the Quran but belong to a rival clan. Naturally, one should understand my desire to get rid of the cursed culture. I only see evil and a curse when it comes to clan among Somalis. Clan is the cause of their demise and indignity.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Clan has become a burden on our society and the reason for impoverishment across the board. Think the burden on you in America and how many people are waiting for you back home for your monetary support. This is at the personal level and how much impact the absence of Somalia as collective institution that serves all Somalis has on all of us.

There is little a clan system can do today for a society numbering into the millions with resource rich country of their own. Only reason they are a failure and ranked as the world's most corrupt is because of the clan system that empowers the corrupt men who run the show.

There is no good side to clan when it comes to Somalis, Just a CURSE. Saixb, you can't even run a Quranic Dugsi without the curse of clan creeping in causing dysfunction among the parents who bring their Kids for ISLAMIC TEACHING.

They fight over the mosque leadership because of a clan. They accuse Quranic teachers of being biased to some students who excel in the Quran but belong to a rival clan. Naturally, one should understand my desire to get rid of the cursed culture. I only see evil and a curse when it comes to clan among Somalis. Clan is the cause of their demise and indignity.

Walaal i understand your anger and frustration but when it comes to qabil and how it's being utilised we need to be level headed and considerate. The same issue of marginalisation and corruption affects other communities as well it's just that we don't witness it personally.

The views you hold of qabil in general is another extreme but in this case it's the opposite of those who obsess about it. What is needed is moderation when it comes to sensitive matters like this otherwise you risk going beyond the limits of the deen. It's through the will and qadr of Allah that he has divided us into nations and tribes as Allah says in His kitaab


O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allaah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa [i.e. he is one of the Muttaqoon (the pious)]. Verily, Allaah is All-Knowing, All Aware”

[al-Hujuraat 49:13]


Transgression occurs when people go beyond the limits set by the deen

 

[Schematics]

Walaal i understand your anger and frustration but when it comes to qabil and how it's being utilised we need to be level headed and considerate. The same issue of marginalisation and corruption affects other communities as well it's just that we don't witness it personally.

The views you hold of qabil in general is another extreme but in this case it's the opposite of those who obsess about it. What is needed is moderation when it comes to sensitive matters like this otherwise you risk going beyond the limits of the deen. It's through the will and qadr of Allah that he has divided us into nations and tribes as Allah says in His kitaab


O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allaah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa [i.e. he is one of the Muttaqoon (the pious)]. Verily, Allaah is All-Knowing, All Aware”

[al-Hujuraat 49:13]


Transgression occurs when people go beyond the limits set by the deen

My preference is to change the source of obsession for Somalis with something greater and better, Instead of a clan, teach kids to be Somalis and they coalesce around that to do something better for their society. Somalis value their clan more than they value being Somalis today, hence, the DEATH OF SOMALIA as a country because of the clan allegiance. The emotional reaction is instant in Somalis when called to the clan issue instead of the Somali issue. With that mentality and culture, Somalis are reduced to be poor, with a sold out country to anyone willing to support a tribal leader reign in his town. How can you not see the abomination of clan then and the CURSE it has become on Somalis?

The verse has zero support for the corrupt clan mentality of Somalis. They worship the clan as God.

I don't risk anything by having zero feelings of attachment to a clan. I fail to see how the verse justifies the clan corruption of Somalis that made them losers and immigrants to all corners of the world. Somalis are vulnerable today than they had ever been. Their country is at risk and nobody cares about them for a good reason.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

My preference is to change the source of obsession for Somalis with something greater and better, Instead of a clan, teach kids to be Somalis and they coalesce around that to do something better for their society. Somalis value their clan more than they value being Somalis today, hence, the DEATH OF SOMALIA as a country because of the clan allegiance. The emotional reaction is instant in Somalis when called to the clan issue instead of the Somali issue. With that mentality and culture, Somalis are reduced to be poor, with a sold out country to anyone willing to support a tribal leader reign in his town. How can you not see the abomination of clan then and the CURSE it has become on Somalis?

The verse has zero support for the corrupt clan mentality of Somalis. They worship the clan as God.

I don't risk anything by having zero feelings of attachment to a clan. I fail to see how the verse justifies the clan corruption of Somalis that made them losers and immigrants to all corners of the world. Somalis are vulnerable today than they had ever been. Their country is at risk and nobody cares about them for a good reason.

How is it possible for others to accept what you "believe" is the solution when you are not willing to accept view points other than your own ? you need to reflect and acknowledge your flaws in your views and meet others half-way so as to have a positive impact.

I see no difference between your excessiveness in denying positive impacts of qabil and those who espouse qabil supremacy you are both extreme on opposite ends. Your efforts only lead to more problems than solutions.


When did i claim to justify clan corruption based on the ayah ? Your inability to acknowledge your flaws in this issue is forcing you to interpret my statements based on what you're convinced of already. It's not beneficial walaal

 

[Schematics]

How is it possible for others to accept what you "believe" is the solution when you are not willing to accept view points other than your own ? you need to reflect and acknowledge your flaws in your views and meet others half-way so as to have a positive impact.

I see no difference between your excessiveness in denying positive impacts of qabil and those who espouse qabil supremacy you are both extreme on opposite ends. Your efforts only lead to more problems than solutions.


When did i claim to justify clan corruption based on the ayah ? Your inability to acknowledge your flaws in this issue is forcing you to interpret my statements based on what you're convinced of already. It's not beneficial walaal

Saaxib, you are in denial of the facts glaring at you. You are just emotional tribal dude who is a bit civilized, thanks to the opportunity given to you by men and women who put their country first and who moved away from tribal system(your host western country). If you haven't learned anything from your experience in the west, and how valuable a country is built on common purpose, you are just the example I need to show others of how failed somalis are because of their clain obsession.

No matter how you slice it or dice it, CLAN IS A CURSE ON SOMALIS TODAY. And no verse quoted can save their asses. Somalis are doomed because of clan and any serious Somali who cares about them sees the writing on the wall and the fate that awaits his people: Self inflicted Extinction.

Kuguma filna miyaa saaxib soddon sano oo aad ku aragtay Qabiil in aanu horumar keenin karin? Faqri, kala qaybsanaan, gaajo, Bahdil soomaalidii meel walba ku bahdilan tahay, caruurtii ay ku dhaleen meelahaan oo waynaaday waxba ma oga oo lama tirsan karo.

I swear to God, one has to be blind to not see the CURSE of Qabiil on Somalis. What good? I see NUTHING GOOD CLAN BROUGHT TO SOMALIS.

Saligii masaajidka ayay isku haystaan cidii ku istaagi lahayd Qabiil dartii markaasaad ileedahay Qabiilaa dhinac wanaagsan leh? Dad fiyoow yaa lo sheegi karaa Qabiilaa wanaag leh. Somalis however need to be saved from the Curse. They are poor because of it, they are despised because of it, they lost their country because of it, and many nationalities called upon each other to benefit from their failure and do good business running Somalia divided along towns, and states all run by stooges.

Aniga qabiil waan ka dhashay qaraabo ciiddaas la egna waan leeyahay, but that means nothing to me when Somalia is at risk.

 

[Schematics]

This picture is a reflection of how city Somali kids lived whilst they came from all clans, including non-ethnic Somalis like Arabs and Bantu Somalis, all as kids and in school together growing up to become adult Somalis without regard to their respective clans. This is how you can build a system that can replace the need for clan. Emphasis on SOMALI over clan. Clan is private matter and should be left at the doorstep of your house. Wishful thinking on my behalf, but I leave this topic with this final thought above.

I pray Somalis to be cured of the disease that plagues their hearts.

This is how I spent my first years as a child in Somalia though I am not included in this picture. Mixed in with others and loving it.