Anti Natalism, a moral debate

[Shimbiris]

I’m kinda misanthropic

I was once too. It's neuroticism, walaal. For me the cause was a p0rn addiction, a poor overall diet and workout routine and an idiotic tendency to self-isolate and be too bookish. Attempting to quit p0rn, eating a more species appropriate and wholefoods diet, working out, getting some sun and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to be more social and do beneficial things for my local community (i.e. volunteering at animal shelters) pretty much completely melted away any misanthropy.

 

[jemappelle]

I was once too. It's neuroticism, walaal. For me the cause was a p0rn addiction, a poor overall diet and workout routine and an idiotic tendency to self-isolate and be too bookish. Attempting to quit p0rn, eating a more species appropriate and wholefoods diet, working out, getting some sun and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to be more social and do beneficial things for my local community (i.e. volunteering at animal shelters) pretty much completely melted away any misanthropy.

Bunning weed and other drugs also does that too you, it messes up your brains emotions

 

[senor chang]

I was once too. It's neuroticism, walaal. For me the cause was a p0rn addiction, a poor overall diet and workout routine and an idiotic tendency to self-isolate and be too bookish. Attempting to quit p0rn, eating a more species appropriate and wholefoods diet, working out, getting some sun and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to be more social and do beneficial things for my local community (i.e. volunteering at animal shelters) pretty much completely melted away any misanthropy.

I’m misanthropic cause of humans they suck

 

[Shimbiris]

Bunning weed and other drugs also does that too you, it messes up your brains emotions

The deen and the structure it offers helps as well.

 

[jemappelle]

I was once too. It's neuroticism, walaal. For me the cause was a p0rn addiction, a poor overall diet and workout routine and an idiotic tendency to self-isolate and be too bookish. Attempting to quit p0rn, eating a more species appropriate and wholefoods diet, working out, getting some sun and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to be more social and do beneficial things for my local community (i.e. volunteering at animal shelters) pretty much completely melted away any misanthropy.

do you believe people who aren't muslim should be anti natlist?

 

[Shimbiris]

do you believe people who aren't muslim should be anti natlist?

I don't wish ill on almost anyone, Muslim or not. And wishing someone would take themselves out of the genepool, especially if they're not a pedophile or something like that, is wishing a lot of ill.

 

[jemappelle]

The deen and the structure it offers helps as well.

Imma be honest the deen changes you as a person if you go deep into it, unfortunatly 95% of people in this forum will not understand truly what I am saying, if you really live the deen for multiple years your way of thinking personlity and emotional state will change, you feel like a completely different person

 

[jemappelle]

I don't wish ill on almost anyone, Muslim or not. And wishing someone would take themselves out of the genepool, especially if they're not a pedophile or something like that, is wishing a lot of ill.

whats wrong with taking urself out of the genepool?

 

[Shimbiris]

whats wrong with taking urself out of the genepool?

Waa sad, niyahow. To hate thyself and this existence itself that much.

 

[jemappelle]

Waa sad, niyahow. To hate thyself and this existence itself that much.

I call it being smart.
If someone doesn't believe in God then in reality they have no meaning and purpose to their life anyway, in fact most Muslims do stuff the same reasons atheists do, not because of some ultimate reason, but because it feels good,the reason most atheists want children is their own personal interests or just ignorance, if they truly lived by their no harm principle then they would never have children.
Essentially without God life is worthless

 

[The alchemist]

They would be justified if Islam wasn't here to tell us the truth which is that every child which is born has been decreed to be born and the purpose of life is not to suffer but to worship God and go jannah
I think all Atheists should be anti-natalists because thats the only thing that makes sense for them

Anti-natalism does not even make sense from an Atheistic perspective. Because if you're a Nihilist about life, then in a fundamental way, there is no hierarchy of values or morals. What is bad and good is non-existent and no intrinsic worth can be put upon anything. So, no, anti-Natalism or pro-Natalism is equally not a conversation. Even the analysis of such is worthless, presuppositions are not worth processing (as any measure of "worth" is worthless). Associating suffering with negative connotations and pleasure, with positive, is conceptually unfounded if you draw a concordant line. In fact, the whole thing in its practice is not humanly tenable because any form of analysis or processing, a fundamental human condition for survival, is itself a strong contradiction to it. The self-denial of life in that case is paradoxical in a way. Because a real nihilist should not claim to be anything at all actually, even a nihilist.

The far majority of Atheists and nihilists are not consistent or know what they are believing to begin with. Morality for atheists is nothing more than aesthetics; if they at all know what atheism entails (many people are just self-centered egoists that want to do hedonism without religious commitment or perceived repercussions so they call themselves atheist without knowing much of what it really means). You might wonder why I included nihilism into it -- the reason brought in nihilism is because anti-Natalist thought is a synthesis of all those wicked thinking.

Anyone who believes humanity should die off is messed up in the head and are corrupt. It's a plot to a cartoon villain story. "The child did not consent to be created" -- what idiots.

 

[TheManWhoIsAlive]

I look too good and I'm eating too good not to eventually have kids. Inshallah I have beautiful children, a beautiful wife and a beautiful life. I'm praying for y'all

 

[Psychologist]

I'd not bother arguing with them. Anyone who supports such misanthropy is pretty much just admitting to having had a likely very rough childhood and/or being mentally unwell. You can't argue with that.

Misanthropy for actually thinking about how useless of having kids in this era is?

Don't get me wrong i like humans, and instead of having kids i plan to help those who don't have parent in their life.

I came to conclusion that if i really care about ones life, i shouldn't have kids rather help those that are already in the problem.

it is cruel to bring a life in this life, we live in broken society where we are slave to a system that doesn't care about us and for me to bring a life in this world without it is consent to live in this world is such cruel act to do.

 

[Nikka]

some times addictions f*ck you up so bad that you can no longer function in society. It becomes involuntary at that point.

 

[jemappelle]

Anti-natalism does not even make sense from an Atheistic perspective. Because if you're a Nihilist about life, then in a fundamental way, there is no hierarchy of values or morals. What is bad and good is non-existent and no intrinsic worth can be put upon anything. So, no, anti-Natalism or pro-Natalism is equally not a conversation. Even the analysis of such is worthless, presuppositions are not worth processing (as any measure of "worth" is worthless). Associating suffering with negative connotations and pleasure, with positive, is conceptually unfounded if you draw a concordant line. In fact, the whole thing in its practice is not humanly tenable because any form of analysis or processing, a fundamental human condition for survival, is itself a strong contradiction to it. The self-denial of life in that case is paradoxical in a way. Because a real nihilist should not claim to be anything at all actually, even a nihilist.

The far majority of Atheists and nihilists are not consistent or know what they are believing to begin with. Morality for atheists is nothing more than aesthetics; if they at all know what atheism entails (many people are just self-centered egoists that want to do hedonism without religious commitment or perceived repercussions so they call themselves atheist without knowing much of what it really means). You might wonder why I included nihilism into it -- the reason brought in nihilism is because anti-Natalist thought is a synthesis of all those wicked thinking.

Anyone who believes humanity should die off is messed up in the head and are corrupt. It's a plot to a cartoon villain story. "The child did not consent to be created" -- what idiots.

No because most atheists go by pleasure harm principle so want to reduce as much sufering as possible,, having more children woul only increase suffering in the world

 

[The alchemist]

No because most atheists go by pleasure harm principle so want to reduce as much sufering as possible,, having more children woul only increase suffering in the world

I told you if they were consistent. The pleasure-harm principle is part of the contradiction. There is no way to justify it through their paradigm over anything else.

 

[jemappelle]

I told you if they were consistent. The pleasure-harm principle is part of the contradiction. There is no way to justify it through their paradigm over anything else.

The problem with your argument is atheism doesn't even exist anyway so if we are going based on the reality of their beliefs then none of it makes sense
but if we are going by what they claim which is harm pleasure principle then they don't obey that

 

[The alchemist]

The problem with your argument is atheism doesn't even exist anyway so if we are going based on the reality of their beliefs then none of it makes sense
but if we are going by what they claim which is harm pleasure principle then they don't obey that

It's not my argument. It's literally testing their positions and their actions contradict what they stand for, which is basically nothing, conjured up stuff which is borrowed from foreign principles they seem to say they don't adhere to. Harm-pleasure principle is just one thing among many that showcase ignorance, as I already laid out in my first response to you. To reiterate, morality, which includes this pleasure-harm principle is in theory just an aesthetic to them, since they have no legs to stand on. I don't think you even disagree with this but want to take a contrary position for argument's sake.

 

[jemappelle]

It's not my argument. It's literally testing their positions and their actions contradict what they stand for, which is basically nothing, conjured up stuff which is borrowed from foreign principles they seem to say they don't adhere to. Harm-pleasure principle is just one thing among many that showcase ignorance, as I already laid out in my first response to you. To reiterate, morality, which includes this pleasure-harm principle is in theory just an aesthetic to them, since they have no legs to stand on. I don't think you even disagree with this but want to take a contrary position for argument's sake.

You don't understand what I am saying, if a person were to take on the pleasure harm principle, then anti natalism would make sense.
Ofc I don't believe the pleasure harm principle is valid, I am just shedding light on what they claim to believe

 

[The alchemist]

You don't understand what I am saying, if a person were to take on the pleasure harm principle, then anti natalism would make sense.
Ofc I don't believe the pleasure harm principle is valid, I am just shedding light on what they claim to believe

I understand, but it's not quite true that anti-Natalism is a logical conclusion from the harm-pleasure principle, just a corrosive feature of it as it is overall degenerative. If you check the pleasure harm-principle, what anti-Natalism is banking on is several flawed arguments within them -- many fallacies. Then again, all of it, even the conversation is quite useless for all of it. It's that they don't know it. The pleasure-harm principle is a worthless hedonistic ideology, not an actual principle backed by true meta-ethics. I am getting to the heart of it that lacks any substance, not discussing the fake upon a fake. I understand why those fools say what they say but it is in so many layers nonsensical, and that's the end of it. Because they first have to justify any of the frameworks they use to pave their flawed ideological landscape, which is impossible for them. How are you going to take seriously what they admit (the actual academics that claim to adhere to those ideas) is nothing more than aesthetics? It's not worth our time to discuss the inner ideas of a non-idea.

Anyway, it was nice chatting, kid. Don't think I will spend more time of my evening discussing anti-Natalism. Those people are lost and need Islam and that's about it.