A C.I.A. Fighter, a Somali Bomb Maker, and a Faltering Shadow War

[Periplus]

You and your buddy @Periplus are both stupid. I don't dismiss an article because it criticizes Puntland. It was a cute attempt.

It's not that it's criticising Puntland, it's literally telling falsehoods about it.

Are you mad or do you genuinely believe pirates are still running around in PL?

 

[repo]

It's not that it's criticising Puntland, it's literally telling falsehoods about it.

Are you mad or do you genuinely believe pirates are still running around in PL?

It doesn't say they are running around, it says the networks are still active. That's a completely different thing. Their networks could consist of financial ties. Funny enough it goes on to say that the networks are dormant. Why don't you do yourself a favor and read it instead of searching Puntland and attempting gotcha questions.

 

[repo]

revenue has not risen. when amisom leave the south will return to 2008/09. but they have not gained strength. since they were ousted from bardera in 2015 there has been no large scale territorial gains. its a stalemate that will be broken when amisom leave.

Yeah sure, AMISOM is preventing you from fighting Shabaab.

 

[Periplus]

It doesn't say they are running around, it says the networks are still active. That's a completely different thing. Their networks could consist of financial ties. Funny enough it goes on to say that the networks are dormant. Why don't you do yourself a favor and read it instead of searching Puntland and attempting gotcha questions.

Dormant networks that maintain political connections.

I am not even attempting 'gotcha' questions here. I have discussed on numerous threads the issues with relying on ajnabis for information about Somalia and Somalis, especially cadaan academics and Halane expats.

Go google the 'cadaan studies' controversy to see what these academics preconceived notions about Somalis are.

Or you can read my thread, which mentions the incident.

Lessons from Orientalism and its application to Somalis

For those of you who have not come across this book, Orientalism is a 1978 book by Edward Said in which he critiques the Western study of the Orient. To boil down what he said to a sentence or two: Said asserted that despite colonisation being over, the West still treats the Orient (rest) in a...

www.somalispot.com

 

[Gantaal97]

Excerpts



Dual-track?

Biometric ID isn't working?

Up from 3,000.

Fahad Yasin is CIA backed.

A C.I.A. Fighter, a Somali Bomb Maker, and a Faltering Shadow War (Published 2021)

The hunt for an elusive Somali militant illustrates why Al Shabab, despite a decade of American covert action, are at their strongest in years.

www.nytimes.com

Sounds like similar situation of pre Taliban Afghanistan

 

[Gantaal97]

There were many world-class journalists claiming that Iraq had WMDs. Your point?

They had to apologise publicly and admit that they received biased information about Iraq.

Journalists are not policy analysts.

I am a longtime NYT subscription holder, I have the utmost respect for journalists at that institution. However, that does not mean their journalists will always come correct.

Well why don't you tell us what's facts on the ground to dispute their story

 

[Gantaal97]

That's what I was telling @Murax it's not about how popular a leader is but what lasting legacy they leave behind. Abdillahi Yusuf might not be popular but he put Somalia back on the map and international stage and in Villa Somalia. Was he popular? no but he left a lasting legacy that other administrations carried on from.

Did those administration achieve anything after abdillahi yusuf, let's be honest of course not shabab grew sophisticated, bombings increased, they can source intel where-ever govt officials are located or what their doing, they run kangaroo courts, they extort the people of mogadishu. So Farmajo and administrations before him were more liked by the population but don't translate that into meaning he left any sort of legacy other then shabab becoming far stronger under his helm.

I hope in this election Somalis select a guy like abdillahi yusuf who begins a shabab clean up

Warya is because of him is why Al shabab exists if he didn't invite Ethiopians into Somalia and hold talks with ICU to form a transitional coalition govt that would have vrought the country into a long standing stability with state institution brought back but Alas!

 

[Periplus]

Well why don't you tell us what's facts on the ground to dispute their story

My point is that in a nation such as Somalia, without Somalis reporting the facts on the ground, we will be always open to biased reporting.

This has been an issue that has plagued us since Sir Richard Burton arrived centuries ago.

 

[Gantaal97]

My point is that in a nation such as Somalia, without Somalis reporting the facts on the ground, we will be always open to biased reporting.

This has been an issue that has plagued us since Sir Richard Burton arrived centuries ago.

I truly believe they got their facts from somalis or experts on the ground or else why write an entire article full of nonsense

 

[Periplus]

I truly believe they got their facts from somalis or experts on the ground or else why write an entire article full of nonsense

One can get their articles from Somalis or experts but that does not necessarily mean its accurate.

Let me again bring the Iraq example, many experts and Iraqis swore that Saddam had WMDs, at the time we were being paraded evidence of such WMDs. However, when push came to shove, the words of experts were inaccurate.

We can all admit that if you ask two Somalis the same question regarding a political matter, you will get two different in-depth answers. Same goes for any other ajnabi "expert" in Somalia.

 

[Gantaal97]

One can get their articles from Somalis or experts but that does not necessarily mean its accurate.

Let me again bring the Iraq example, many experts and Iraqis swore that Saddam had WMDs, at the time we were being paraded evidence of such WMDs. However, when push came to shove, the words of experts were inaccurate.

We can all admit that if you ask two Somalis the same question regarding a political matter, you will get two different in-depth answers. Same goes for any other ajnabi "expert" in Somalia.

Well there's still no factual rebuttal to their story in order to be it "false" or "inaccurate"

he WMD in Iraq was made up by the intelligence community and the media had no time to verify that but go along with it but this story is different their sources aren't from CIA or foreign intelligence community

 

[0117]

@sincity

It does imply dual track policy will come back again as they are losing patience with the incompetence and unreliability of FGS?

 

[Periplus]

Well there's still no factual rebuttal to their story in order to be it "false" or "inaccurate"

There is also no factual basis for it to be accurate either.

No American or Somali official is willing to go on the record to substantiate any of these claims. No international organisation or think tank wants to back this up either. There is little to no quantitative data that backs up any of the claims but there are quotes from unnamed sources.

Just look at the photos they use of Xamar, going out of their way to find a blood stained house shows the inherent bias in these pieces.

Somalis need to take back control of their narrative.

 

[repo]

@sincity

It does imply dual track policy will come back again as they are losing patience with the incompetence and unreliability of FGS?

The current government would normally be considered a pariah by the international community, especially because of the extension and failure to hold elections. But the house of card is so fragile, nobody wants to make any sudden moves. That's probably why Fahad Yasin still got a job. The NYT, Washington Post, Politico are the papers policy makers read, if they are telling you publicly Shabaab is gaining strength it means they consider the FGS a failure.

 

[IPushFatKids]

Does anyone here actually believe al shabab are at their strongest in years???

how does that make sense given their loss of all major cities and lots of territory?

This article is a prelude to an upcoming policy change from Biden, they just trying to set the stage for whatever new policy they bring.

Secondly, horta why is this government soooo fucking inept??? Why can't they secure port records?? Al shabaab having access to port manifests was reported a YEAR ago

Somalia conflict: Al-Shabab 'collects more revenue than government'

Al-Shabab uses threats and violence to extort the money from Somalis, a new report says.

www.bbc.com

and i'm sure was known for years before that.

why can't they simply fire everyone at the port that had access and rehire them 1 by 1 with background checks? secure all systems make sure only employees that need access to those records have access. If info is leaked you know where to work from. Its these little things that make all the difference in security. How embarrassing is it for the government and port authorities that al shabab has access to all their records??? its like they give zero fucks

 

[Gantaal97]

There is also no factual basis for it to be accurate either.

No American or Somali official is willing to go on the record to substantiate any of these claims. No international organisation or think tank wants to back this up either. There is little to no quantitative data that backs up any of the claims but there are quotes from unnamed sources.

Just look at the photos they use of Xamar, going out of their way to find a blood stained house shows the inherent bias in these pieces.

Somalis need to take back control of their narrative.

There's no any evidence that backs your theory or view that says Al shabaab is weakened they are still a force of threat in the country with spys in the capital and you have corrupt govt politicians who think of their pockets rather than security and we have seen how the situation on the ground is

 

[warside]

We can all pretend every thing is fine when it's clearly not, you can cry bias if you want but the reality on the ground is Alshayadin get their revenue from Mogadishu port and businesses there, sure you can dispute the numbers because nobody knows how much they collect it's just estimates.

 

[Periplus]

There's no any evidence that backs your theory or view that says Al shabaab is weakened they are still a force of threat in the country with spys in the capital and you have corrupt govt politicians who think of their pockets rather than security and we have seen how the situation on the ground is

My theory is that NYT and other newspapers underestimated the Taliban and as a result are painting Al-Shabaab to be the next Taliban.

Which is something NYT themselves state in the article:

U.S. officials say the experience of Afghanistan shows that success cannot be defined as remaking a government or society, and that the mission in Somalia has paid off by disrupting Al Shabab. Mr. Goodboe, according to friends, judged his work by a similar yardstick: whether terrorists could threaten Americans or the United States.

Still, some analysts say the United States needs to contemplate a totally new approach in Somalia, including a political settlement with Al Shabab, or face the prospect of being trapped in another “forever war” with an inglorious end.

I never denied that AS is not a threat or that they have spies or that Somalia does not have corrupt politicians.

My issue is with the underlying agenda behind the article, not its rhetoric per se.

 

[Hayfever]

My theory is that NYT and other newspapers underestimated the Taliban and as a result are painting Al-Shabaab to be the next Taliban.

Which is something NYT themselves state in the article:



I never denied that AS is not a threat or that they have spies or that Somalia does not have corrupt politicians.

My issue is with the underlying agenda behind the article, not its rhetoric per se.

What's more likely, the New York times are overestimating Al Shabab because of the Taliban or Somalis such as you are underestimating Shabab because you want to believe Somalia is making progress?

I know its anecdotal and therefore can't be used as conclusive proof. But I know people irl who have went back to xamar within the last few years and been held for ransom by Shabab fighters when they left the city. When you hear them tell the stories its hard to believe the fgs is making any sort of progress.

 

[reer]

Yeah sure, AMISOM is preventing you from fighting Shabaab.

amisom leaving breaks the stalemate. that means shabab overrun konfuria.