33 years later, would you say we should've left Siad Barre alone?

[Adeer_Boomer]

List the pros and cons.

I would say yes! We should have left that homie alone.
Here's mine and before anyone asks, I am Darod but not Marehan.

pros
strong government
top 2/3 strongest military in Africa.
stable country
better equipped to deal with famine and droughts because of the government institutions being functional
Ethiopia and Kenya would't be toying with us today.
Our marine fisheries woudn't be stolen
no amison
no alshabab
we could have dug the oil/gas by now.
last but not least, if Somalia's government hadn't collapsed, we could have gotten somali galbeed in 1991 when Eritrea also declared independence after the Ehio civil war.

cons
He killed a lot of people, specially in the north, but we lost millions more after he was gone so this is still a pro in my book.
he let his clan run wild: I can accept this if the country remained strong and stable.
he wanted to keep the kursi no matter what: again i can accept this.


We lost so much by chimping out in 1991 and made zero gains.
Let's be objective and keep qabiil emotions out of this discussion.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Getting rid of him is one thing. The real issue is the complete disintegration that followed

If Arte Ghalib hadn't disbanded the Somali army maybe there would have been a new strongman in charge.

 

[chronic]

Said Barre definitely should’ve resigned, but the chaos that ensued afterwards shouldve not happened.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

There’s no point talking about this rinsed topic. It will turn into a blame game and qabyalad. It already happened and we need to move forward.

The topic we should have is reconciliation and a system that works for us or balkanization.

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

There’s no point talking about this rinsed topic. It will turn into a blame game and qabyalad. It already happened and we need to move forward.

The topic we should have is reconciliation and a system that works for us or balkanization.

That's why I asked that we keep qabiil and emotions out of it, something we Somalis are not capable of I know. We act like we are the only people in the world to fight and kill each other. Japan is on good terms with the U.S despite what the U.S did to them. South Korea is also on good terms with Japan despite what the Japanese did to them. Heck Ethiopia went through at least 3 major civil wars worse than ours in those 33 years, and they are still intact and most of their people, despite being completely different ethnicities with all kinds of religions and language, would prefer to preserve the country. We Somalis are so full of cuqdad and we refused to move forward, but ironically, we support the very thing we complain about which is clan leaders and qabiils attacking other qabiils. What happened in Somalia also happened in 100s of other countries, it's low IQ to keep fixating on it instead of moving forward.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Should have made a compromise.

he tried

 

[Zak12]

Nope, Siad Barre had to go. Some will speculate that many of the actions his regime did were not his own since he was away from the country for a while but regardless, his cancerous socialist state needed to go.

The real unfortunate part was the lack of forsight and planning of the USC. As soon as Mogadishu was taken these guys dissolved into infighting and created the image of mooryans we have today. Aidid and Mahdi did far more damage to the country than MSB did since they refused to compromise and share power.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

There’s no point talking about this rinsed topic. It will turn into a blame game and qabyalad. It already happened and we need to move forward.

The topic we should have is reconciliation and a system that works for us or balkanization.

Not rinsed tbh in the sense I rarely see an objective discussion about it. This is part of the problem we aren't even starting from the same page it's like each person has a 'personal truth' about what happened and why.

 

[SamaaleCushite]

this civil war was fated to happen when a clan based feudal society is forced to unify not by war but by BS politics and unfounded 'brotherhood' it will show sparks of glory but will die out... for a civil war is necessary to break apart the fabric and rebuild it on a more permanent basis. Every peoples went thru it at some point and we are doing now. However i am sure once reconciliation and peace is reached it will nvr happen again.

The fate of somalia is tied to 3 avenues ;

1. Separation (Prolongs the war)
2. Unification by war (A good choice but only works with a smart and beloved leader / Council electorate)
3. Unification by idea and majority ( best choice)

In all 3 sceanrios the 1st one is the one we will be in for the next 10 yrs but after that the young will see that they have no difference btwn each other , once the old and grudgeful die out they will be agitated and force unification. This is how history tends to go no matter how much you say north and south wont unite in the end it will be up to ur children not you who are still tied to he horros of the dark period.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Getting rid of him is one thing. The real issue is the complete disintegration that followed

If Arte Ghalib hadn't disbanded the Somali army maybe there would have been a new strongman in charge.

There was no army during that time as many of the Hawiye members defected to USC and Afweyne after being forced out from the capital formed his own Daarood miltia out from the army led by the likes of Morgan.

Without the existence of manifesto group there would have been no civil war or Somaliland.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

There was no army during that time as many of the Hawiye members defected to USC and Afweyne after being forced out from the capital formed his own Daarood miltia out from the army led by the likes of Morgan.

Without the existence of manifesto group there would have been no civil war or Somaliland.

Walaal didn't Arte Ghalib order whatever was left of the army to go to their respective regions? That's what I'm talking about there was still something left it would have been an improvement on nothing.

Also what do you mean by that? I thought the Manifesto group were trying to bring reconciliation and build a post Siad government? Is this not true? Please elaborate

 

[Haragwaafi]

Walaal didn't Arte Ghalib order whatever was left of the army to go to their respective regions? That's what I'm talking about there was still something left it would have been an improvement on nothing.

Also what do you mean by that? I thought the Manifesto group were trying to bring reconciliation and build a post Siad government? Is this not true? Please elaborate

Whatever army that was there was small as all state institution has fallen down with rebel groups taking control of must of the country.

Manifesto group led by Mahdi hijacked the struggle against the regime where they formed a govt without consulting the main groups including USC itself that split off into clan lines leading ino a brutal civil war

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Whatever army that was there was small as all state institution has fallen down with rebel groups taking control of must of the country.

Manifesto group led by Mahdi hijacked the struggle against the regime where they formed a govt without consulting the main groups including USC itself that split off into clan lines leading ino a brutal civil war

Ok and the ones killed as they were holding a conference? Were they something else I thought they were Manifesto

 

[johnsepei5]

I think this is the first civil war in history to end in a stalemate
There were no winners or loosers

Perhabs it’s why Somalia is the way it is

 

[aerocon]

I think a majority would push a reset button to be under Siad Barre and he would have made us like this again.. all would be conscripted into service or pressed into labour - no exceptions

 

[DR OSMAN]

Anyone who utters siyad barre name with the stooges post 91 should be shot in sight. Ninkas dal Iyo qaran buu haaye, halka the stooges post 91 can barely control their own clans let alone a nation. Anyone who brings siyad barre name among the incompetence post 91 should be shot on sight. Waryaa is keen Ina salad horgal boy @Libaax-Joore. Anigu horgal waxan uu ahaa niin qaran haayay halka adigu horgal waxad UU ahayd beesha ugu fashilka badan dalka Ina salad boy.

 

[Guillotine]

The killing of the manifesto group intellectuals was the nail in the coffin for Somalia.

 

[ina-cilmi]

there's discussion on whether barre was muslim or not. I've genuinely seen some claim he apostated. regardless, lets assume he was a muslim.

there is a reason why rebelling against the muslim ruler is haram in islam. The wisdom behind this is clearly visible in our country.

islam is a perfect religion wallahi it has a fix for everything

 

[Daydreamer]

there's discussion on whether barre was muslim or not. I've genuinely seen some claim he apostated. regardless, lets assume he was a muslim.

there is a reason why rebelling against the muslim ruler is haram in islam. The wisdom behind this is clearly visible in our country.

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islam is a perfect religion wallahi it has a fix for everything

I don't understand the logic behind this, what would be the difference between a muslim ruler and a non-muslim ruler oppressing people in the same way?

 

[ina-cilmi]

I don't understand the logic behind this, what would be the difference between a muslim ruler and a non-muslim ruler oppressing people in the same way?

a kafir cannot rule the muslim afaik. the rules between a kafir and a muslim obviously differ